Is it true that this game runs best in borderless rather than fullscreen?

[Dron]

I usually prefer full screen, I play on one monitor and don't need to minimise games. But I heard that Fallout 4 is one of those games that runs best in borderless. Though I have not found details on what sort of improvement to expect in borderless. Does anyone know if its true or just a rumour?

[worm_master]

O've played full screen all the way, works just fine for me

[DouglasGrave]

I run it borderless maximized because fullscreen simply didn't work, but it's not guaranteed to be the same for everyone.

If you're curious, the best way to test it would be to adjust the settings and see for yourself how well it works on your system.

[Dron]

Postat inițial de DouglasGrave:

I run it borderless maximized because fullscreen simply didn't work, but it's not guaranteed to be the same for everyone.

If you're curious, the best way to test it would be to adjust the settings and see for yourself how well it works on your system.

I tried and didn't see any obvious difference. I limit FPS though for same reason as Skyrim, so I am not trying to get highest FPS. I heard before it's more stable in borderless or something.

[cswiger]

Borderless windowed mode normally is more stable because it plays nicer with overlays. There used to be a potential performance advantage to using fullscreen mode, but that's no longer the case with Win10 and later.

[Dron]

Postat inițial de cswiger:

Borderless windowed mode normally is more stable because it plays nicer with overlays. There used to be a potential performance advantage to using fullscreen mode, but that's no longer the case with Win10 and later.

I always disable overlays unless I really need them. Why do you think Windows 10 makes a difference? Because of game mode?

[cswiger]

Postat inițial de Dron:

Postat inițial de cswiger:

Borderless windowed mode normally is more stable because it plays nicer with overlays. There used to be a potential performance advantage to using fullscreen mode, but that's no longer the case with Win10 and later.

I always disable overlays unless I really need them. Why do you think Windows 10 makes a difference? Because of game mode?

Put simply, Win10 improved borderless windowed mode so that it runs faster than fullscreen mode almost all of the time:

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/

Under Win10 and later, fullscreen mode actually runs in borderless mode unless you disable FSO. This is why modern DX12 and Vulkan games don't bother offering fullscreen mode.

[Dron]

Postat inițial de cswiger:

Postat inițial de Dron:

I always disable overlays unless I really need them. Why do you think Windows 10 makes a difference? Because of game mode?

Put simply, Win10 improved borderless windowed mode so that it runs faster than fullscreen mode almost all of the time:

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/

Under Win10 and later, fullscreen mode actually runs in borderless mode unless you disable FSO. This is why modern DX12 and Vulkan games don't bother offering fullscreen mode.

What is FSO? I thought that borderless still renders the desktop, so you are using more resources.

[cswiger]

Postat inițial de Dron:

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/demystifying-full-screen-optimizations/

Under Win10 and later, fullscreen mode actually runs in borderless mode unless you disable FSO. This is why modern DX12 and Vulkan games don't bother offering fullscreen mode.

What is FSO?

Try reading the URL quoted above which ends with "full screen optimizations".

I thought that borderless still renders the desktop, so you are using more resources.

That used to be the case:

"When using Fullscreen Optimizations, your game believes that it is running in Fullscreen Exclusive, but behind the scenes, Windows has the game running in borderless windowed mode. When a game is run in borderless windowed mode, the game does not have full control of the display– that overarching control is given back to the Desktop Window Manager (DWM). The DWM manages the composition/organization of the desktop display content from various applications, meaning it controls what is rendered and presented to the front of your display and what is held in the background. However, this control has historically resulted in a slight performance overhead vs FSE, where the game has full control.

To get back this performance overhead, we enhanced the DWM to recognize when a game is running in a borderless full screen window with no other applications on the screen. In this circumstance, the DWM gives control of the display and almost all the CPU/GPU power to the game. Which in turn allows equivalent performance to running a game in FSE. Fullscreen Optimizations is essentially FSE with the flexibility to go back to DWM composition in a simple manner. This gives us the best of both worlds with performance and other features that require the DWM, such as overlays. When an overlay such as the Game Bar is present, the DWM reassumes control of the display, and a slight performance overhead is incurred so that the overlay can be composited on top of the game in a safe and stable way. (To learn more about the Xbox Game bar, check out the info the Game Bar Team has information posted here.)"

[Dron]

Postat inițial de cswiger:

Postat inițial de Dron:

What is FSO?

Try reading the URL quoted above which ends with "full screen optimizations".

I thought that borderless still renders the desktop, so you are using more resources.

That used to be the case:

"When using Fullscreen Optimizations, your game believes that it is running in Fullscreen Exclusive, but behind the scenes, Windows has the game running in borderless windowed mode. When a game is run in borderless windowed mode, the game does not have full control of the display– that overarching control is given back to the Desktop Window Manager (DWM). The DWM manages the composition/organization of the desktop display content from various applications, meaning it controls what is rendered and presented to the front of your display and what is held in the background. However, this control has historically resulted in a slight performance overhead vs FSE, where the game has full control.

To get back this performance overhead, we enhanced the DWM to recognize when a game is running in a borderless full screen window with no other applications on the screen. In this circumstance, the DWM gives control of the display and almost all the CPU/GPU power to the game. Which in turn allows equivalent performance to running a game in FSE. Fullscreen Optimizations is essentially FSE with the flexibility to go back to DWM composition in a simple manner. This gives us the best of both worlds with performance and other features that require the DWM, such as overlays. When an overlay such as the Game Bar is present, the DWM reassumes control of the display, and a slight performance overhead is incurred so that the overlay can be composited on top of the game in a safe and stable way. (To learn more about the Xbox Game bar, check out the info the Game Bar Team has information posted here.)"

And where do you turn on or off FSO?

[cswiger]

Postat inițial de Dron:

And where do you turn on or off FSO?

Properties -> Compatibility on the game executable.

[Dron]

Postat inițial de cswiger:

Postat inițial de Dron:

And where do you turn on or off FSO?

Properties -> Compatibility on the game executable.

I fiddled with those once, I couldn't find a visible difference so I left it as it was. In which situations should FSO be disabled in your opinion?

[cswiger]

Postat inițial de Dron:

I fiddled with those once, I couldn't find a visible difference so I left it as it was. In which situations should FSO be disabled in your opinion?

None that I know of.

If you have some old game for WinXP or earlier, and you benchmark it carefully comparing performance using fullscreen exclusive mode with FSO disabled versus it on, maybe you can find some case where it doesn't help.

[Dron]

Postat inițial de cswiger:

Postat inițial de Dron:

I fiddled with those once, I couldn't find a visible difference so I left it as it was. In which situations should FSO be disabled in your opinion?

None that I know of.

If you have some old game for WinXP or earlier, and you benchmark it carefully comparing performance using fullscreen exclusive mode with FSO disabled versus it on, maybe you can find some case where it doesn't help.

I disabled it for a few games today, none of them too old. Everything seems same. What sort of difference should I be looking for? Only thing I noticed is that Pathfinder Wrath of the righteous stopped getting an error message every time I exit the game, so might leave FSO turned off.

[cswiger]

Postat inițial de Dron:

I disabled it for a few games today, none of them too old. Everything seems same.

Of course everything seems the same, so long as you have any overlays disabled. If you disable FSO and try to use overlays, you'll probably see lags, artifacts, or even get program crashes.

What sort of difference should I be looking for?

You should be benchmarking the performance carefully, meaning that you have enough data to compare standard deviations.

[Dron]

Postat inițial de cswiger:

Postat inițial de Dron:

I disabled it for a few games today, none of them too old. Everything seems same.

Of course everything seems the same, so long as you have any overlays disabled. If you disable FSO and try to use overlays, you'll probably see lags, artifacts, or even get program crashes.

What sort of difference should I be looking for?

You should be benchmarking the performance carefully, meaning that you have enough data to compare standard deviations.

It's about overlays? I don't think I ever use any that I am aware of. The steam overlay I usually have disabled unless I specifically need it. Don't think I have any other overlay.