How to make the Institute as non-evil as possible without blowing it up?

[tattuvamasi]

So I was thinking, the Institute is pretty bad, and you can't really reform it by taking over as the player because that involves you killing a lot of people and basically just accomplishing all of their goals for them. But they also have a lot of potentially useful tech and could turn things around down the road, who knows? So maybe it is also not the best thing to just blow them up.

So, I come up with the following plan. First, use the BoS to build the teleporter while ignoring the Railroad. Then, do the BoS quest line up to right before Blind Betrayal, and the Institute quest line to Mass Fusion where the BoS turn hostile. Now switch to the Institute and do their quest line up until the point where they are asking you to kill the Railroad (I turned the Railroad hostile here as well by wandering around near their HQ with X6-88).

So at this point we know Sean is unwell and we also know we don't want to proceed further with the Institute quests. So, who is gonna be the successor if it's not the player? Dr. Li is back with the BoS. Dr. Ayo is out after being framed in the quest for Dr. Binet, I sided with the guys who barricaded themselves in the bio lab, and basically I always went against the Institute's hardliners and tried to weaken the Institute overall.

So I figure Dr. Holdren (Bioscience) and Dr. Filmore (Facilities) are the top contenders in the short term, while Dr. Orman seems like the top person in the long run. Out of the first two I think Dr. Holdren is the more sinister and also younger and seems less stressed and overworked than Dr. Filmore. So, I am gonna leave the Institute by taking out Dr. Holdren, popping a stealth boy, and getting out of there, I think that this is the best outcome.

[Scheneighnay]

Lost me at not wiping out the railroad

[tattuvamasi]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Lost me at not wiping out the railroad

I have no reason to want to wipe out any of these factions, so I am creating a stalemate.

[eMYNOCK]

@OP
goto nexus and look for Subversion
additonally look for Danse Dilemma and eventually We are the Minutemen and one of the cosmetics that is suggested).

what does this mod combo do?
you pretty much can play all factions close to their end.
you still need to temporarily stop the story when you reach Mass Fusion and Spoils of War (or Blind Betrayal / End of the Line) because you will have to take the Institute route to be able to take control and keep BoS and RR alive.

Best if you read up the description and "walkthrough" for Subversion.

With the Danse Mod you can even spare Danse, keep him in the BoS, make him into the Elder or become it your self.

[Scheneighnay]

Meanwhile I keep my guns in a container for Cait to steal them out of, so that whenever I need her to carry anything, her inventory is already maxed out

Weird, thought I posted this on another thread

[tattuvamasi]

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Meanwhile I keep my guns in a container for Cait to steal them out of, so that whenever I need her to carry anything, her inventory is already maxed out

If you keep the guns and ammo in separate areas that doesn't happen; same with fusion cores for power armor, just keep them in a different spot and NPCs can't steal them.

[-={LG}=-]

Originally posted by tattuvamasi:

you can't really reform it by taking over as the player because that involves you killing a lot of people and basically just accomplishing all of their goals for them.

You'll be killing a lot of people no matter what faction you end up supporting. And you'll be setting off yet another nuclear explosion with most of them, like the Commonwealth really needs another nuke.

And frankly, if I can't wipe out the Railroad I'm not happy.

[tattuvamasi]

Originally posted by -={LG}=-:

Originally posted by tattuvamasi:

you can't really reform it by taking over as the player because that involves you killing a lot of people and basically just accomplishing all of their goals for them.

You'll be killing a lot of people no matter what faction you end up supporting. And you'll be setting off yet another nuclear explosion with most of them, like the Commonwealth really needs another nuke.

And frankly, if I can't wipe out the Railroad I'm not happy.

That's the whole point though. Why do any of that? This way none of them will work with me anyway, so those things can't happen. And I never even met the Railroad so my guy is totally unaware of how dumb they are.

[Ihateeverybody]

Originally posted by tattuvamasi:

Originally posted by Scheneighnay:

Lost me at not wiping out the railroad

I have no reason to want to wipe out any of these factions, so I am creating a stalemate.

Move along civilian.....that right there is reason enough to Hindenberg those <redacted>.

I just saved your ass from 2 Legendary Super Mutant Warlords. Your Power armor is gone, I can see your underwear through the Frame. I don't know where you found a pair of Manta Man Underroos in the wasteland (and I don't want to know).

[damion.ord]

Look up Project Valkyrie and it's parent mod Outcasts and Remnants on the Nexus. It essentially allows you to keep all four factions while running the Commonwealth yourself, there is even a selectable option to get rid of Preston Garvey for cool reasons.

[Drake Platinum THE WORLD]

If you grab the thuggyverse mods like damion mentions you can actually end up getting control over every faction and not blow up the institute. You can still take out factions you don't like if thats what you want.

[dbond1]

When I was approaching the end of the main quest I had decisions to make, as did we all. What I chose in the end was the path which would make the post-quest game world the way I wanted it. I wanted allies, I wanted verti-bird travel. I wanted radiant quests. So the choice I made was done with this end game state of the world in mind, not a reflection of my role play or morality or any sense of personal alignment I felt. I find the Railroad objectionable like anyone else, but yet they live. There was only one choice in the end.

I blew the Institute sky high. Honestly, the Institute was probably humanity's best chance. Sure they were treating humanity as an experiment, but that's how you find the limit, how you test your theories. And honestly the world is pretty fooked up at this point, and there's plenty objectionable to find. So the Institute doesn't really stand out all that much. But perhaps there's some stuff I never discovered. I did very little of their quests before lighting them up.

The downside is there i now a massive, irradiated crater on the east side of the Riptide Bridge, which cramps my style, since that's the fastest route from Hangman's to Sanctuary. Aquaboy time.

[Ihateeverybody]

Originally posted by dbond1:

When I was approaching the end of the main quest I had decisions to make, as did we all. What I chose in the end was the path which would make the post-quest game world the way I wanted it. I wanted allies, I wanted verti-bird travel. I wanted radiant quests. So the choice I made was done with this end game state of the world in mind, not a reflection of my role play or morality or any sense of personal alignment I felt. I find the Railroad objectionable like anyone else, but yet they live. There was only one choice in the end.

I blew the Institute sky high. Honestly, the Institute was probably humanity's best chance. Sure they were treating humanity as an experiment, but that's how you find the limit, how you test your theories. And honestly the world is pretty fooked up at this point, and there's plenty objectionable to find. So the Institute doesn't really stand out all that much. But perhaps there's some stuff I never discovered. I did very little of their quests before lighting them up.

The downside is there i now a massive, irradiated crater on the east side of the Riptide Bridge, which cramps my style, since that's the fastest route from Hangman's to Sanctuary. Aquaboy time.

I am big on Consent. It matters if those limits being tested are willing or not.

Course if it involves people trying to do the same to you. That's what I call implied consent. And I am good with that.

[tattuvamasi]

Originally posted by dbond1:

When I was approaching the end of the main quest I had decisions to make, as did we all. What I chose in the end was the path which would make the post-quest game world the way I wanted it. I wanted allies, I wanted verti-bird travel. I wanted radiant quests. So the choice I made was done with this end game state of the world in mind, not a reflection of my role play or morality or any sense of personal alignment I felt. I find the Railroad objectionable like anyone else, but yet they live. There was only one choice in the end.

I blew the Institute sky high. Honestly, the Institute was probably humanity's best chance. Sure they were treating humanity as an experiment, but that's how you find the limit, how you test your theories. And honestly the world is pretty fooked up at this point, and there's plenty objectionable to find. So the Institute doesn't really stand out all that much. But perhaps there's some stuff I never discovered. I did very little of their quests before lighting them up.

The downside is there i now a massive, irradiated crater on the east side of the Riptide Bridge, which cramps my style, since that's the fastest route from Hangman's to Sanctuary. Aquaboy time.

See, this is the approach I like right here. You gotta get the right end state, that's the key. Of course you can switch it up for different characters. And, you don't have to do the main quest, necessarily, or all of it.

I did one run, the guy only did the BoS quests and nothing else, total focus on the BoS. Got to the end, went out to Far Harbor on whatever side quest they give you, ended up just hanging around at Old Longfellow's, drinking and thinking on all the heavy stuff that went down during the main quest. One day he looks at his power armor, says to himself "you done a heck of a job sentinel...ad victoriam", takes a drink, puts on his armor and walks into the ocean, the end.

I did a few where I just went all-out on settlements and didn't even do the main quest beyond killing Kellogg. Like, go into the glowing sea? That sounds foolhardy, I mean I got people counting on me here, and probably the Institute is the safest place for Shawn, from Kellogg's memories it looked like he was alright. He wouldn't even know who I was if I showed up. Stick with the settlements, that's the way to go.

But, I think my favorite is the guy who just pissed off everyone: BoS, Railroad, Institute, I can't finish the main quest because they are all hostile. Can't go Minutemen because I went with the raiders, but then I made the raiders hostile too. Don't have any settlements under control, just hanging out in the glowing sea soaking up some rads and worshipping atom.

[GoreTiger]

The institute will always be evil, Purge that place and leave a hole in the ground as a warning to others.

[dbond1]

Originally posted by tattuvamasi:

You gotta get the right end state, that's the key.

Doing it this way I have as allies, Railroad, BOS and Minutemen. It's nice to have allies, and friendly checkpoints as oasises dotting the doomscape. You get a lot of emergent defend the checkpoint battles, vertibird travel, plenty of vendors and just a general satisfaction that you chose the path that resulted in the good guys still standing. Railroad are nutters, as they do nothing but hang out in their subterranean lair. smoking cigarettes and asking the Sole Survivor to do all the work.

At first I rather liked the Railroad, free spirits which I likened to the Freedom faction from Stalker. But over time I saw how little they actually did -- you never see them out in the field -- but over time I saw they were not so much synth sympathetic, as supremacist. They grew to feel too zealous, with a skewed perspective on the humanity and synth question. My character started to feel less ethically aligned as time went on. But maybe worse than a question of ethics and morality, they are a bunch of lazy freeloaders. Of all the factions, the Railroad are encountered the least out in the wild. They are content to sit in their subterranean HQ and flap their gums and let the vault dweller do all the work. In exactly the same way I grew to resent the camp followers in RDR 2, i began to see the Railroad the same way. Get to work ya bastages!

The Minutemen felt safe, a lawful good vibe. But it feels like without me they'd not stand a chance. They insist on using laser muskets for crying out loud haha. But they were the first friendly people I met in the wastes, and want the right things for the world, even if it feels like they'll never have the capacity to make it so. The sort of underdog you'll pull for, but wouldn't stake your money on.

BoS are the opposite, like Duty to Stalker's Freedom. They also have a skewed perspective, but the capacity to get things done. Of all the factions, it is the BoS out there in the weeds giving the bad guys the good news. It felt like they have the best chance aside from the institute of realizing their vision.

So in order for all of these factions to live and be friends, it was the Institute that drew the short straw. Irrespective of the post game state of affairs I may have chosen a different path. But in order to set it up the way I wanted it to be, they had to go.