Is the Unofficial patch really that essential?

[aro230]

I've been playing the game since it came out and don't remember having any game-breaking bugs. I wanna start a new, modded playthrough for the first time soon, with some mostly lore friendly mods (like more radio songs, new vanilla settlement objects etc.) and I'm wondering whether the Unofficial patch is really as essential as many are saying

I've heard it makes some unnecessary changes too, so not entirely sure if they're right. Also, should I really get into modding before the next gen update comes out? Everyone's worried about the update breaking all modded games after all

[.:Jj:.]

Originally posted by aro230:

I've heard it makes some unnecessary changes too

Like what?

I've 'heard' Earth is flat. Let's talk about facts. Nothing is "essential". If it was it would be built-in or at least there would be a notification on the Fallout 4 product page that such a thing is required. You can finish the final mission without it.

You have, rounding down, a billion entries in the patch history:
https://www.afkmods.com/Unofficial%20Fallout%204%20Patch%20Version%20History.html

Read the notes and decide if you mind these bugs and issues. If you're doing a playthrough that is modded I'm not sure how is that even a question. I've played maybe 2-3 hrs of completely vanilla F4. Rest, out of 620hrs was played with F4UP, never had any issues related to UP, and very, very few problems at all with maybe one major one, that was related to an unknown mod and was fixed by reloading an earlier savegame.

[Liquid Inc]

Mods that use the patch as a "required" mod are exactly that. They require it because it makes changes those mods rely on being there, just as any other requirement they might have.

It's "essential" because the mods rely on it, you don't *have* to use the patch, but if you want to use the mods that have it as a requirement, you will need to.

i don't know about "unnecessary". That's entirely opinion from the person saying it as some will want those changes, and others won't. Make your own decision on that one, it's as valid as any other.

Update won't break your mods *IF* you properly protect your game using F4SE;
Setting Steam to update on launch and then only using the F4SE launcher from then on.
Never clicking play in Steam again, and only launching from F4SE AFTER logging into Steam.
Setting the Manifest file for Fallout 4 to read only (This one prevents Steam from touching the game entirely. if it attempts to update, it'll just crash and can't do it).

Make a backup copy of the files in the Fallout 4 folder somewhere else. This is pretty much common sense when modding. If you screw a file up, you've got an instant backup.

Once you've done all that, mod away to your hearts content, because there's little chance of it updating on you, and if it does, you always have the backup to restore from.

[aro230]

Originally posted by Liquid Inc:

Mods that use the patch as a "required" mod are exactly that. They require it because it makes changes those mods rely on being there, just as any other requirement they might have.

It's "essential" because the mods rely on it, you don't *have* to use the patch, but if you want to use the mods that have it as a requirement, you will need to.

i don't know about "unnecessary". That's entirely opinion from the person saying it as some will want those changes, and others won't. Make your own decision on that one, it's as valid as any other.

Update won't break your mods *IF* you properly protect your game using F4SE;
Setting Steam to update on launch and then only using the F4SE launcher from then on.
Never clicking play in Steam again, and only launching from F4SE AFTER logging into Steam.
Setting the Manifest file for Fallout 4 to read only (This one prevents Steam from touching the game entirely. if it attempts to update, it'll just crash and can't do it).

Make a backup copy of the files in the Fallout 4 folder somewhere else. This is pretty much common sense when modding. If you screw a file up, you've got an instant backup.

Once you've done all that, mod away to your hearts content, because there's little chance of it updating on you, and if it does, you always have the backup to restore from.

Thing is, I don't wanna use anything that heavily relies on scripts, so no F4SE for me. And I'm looking forward to the next gen patch anyway, I'm just curious how much could it break

[Stuff]

The first thing the new update is gonna do is break F4SE like all the other updates and consequential, will break everything that relies on F4SE, which is a whole bunch of mods, serveral which I use. It will take about 1-2 months for them to be fixed, if Bathesda doesn't do like it did for Skirim, completly broke all mods, which is something I don't think will happen here, but who knows. That's why I already set my game to not update automatic and will finish this current playthrough I'm doing and update this later

[.:Jj:.]

Originally posted by aro230:

I'm just curious how much could it break

Depending on the mods used- nothing, some, or everything.
Not sure what's the actual point here- start a playthrough and as usual add mods one at a time and filter those (immediately)not working/breaking.

[Senor Cinco]

I wouldn't wait for anything, if I wanted to play. The big question to ask yourself is...
"Do I have an issue with starting a new game at any point?"

Willing to start anew, at the drop of a hat, negates the worry of any updates and potential problems with mods. I have always started a new game after every Beth update since the release of Skyrim.

Unless, you are in the camp of crying about the unofficial patch not allowing you to exploit a glitch, that was fixed due to the other issues it can cause, I wouldn't worry about it and load the patch.

I've been using the Bethnet mods from the menu for years. No F4SE. I start with the unofficial patch and go from there. Tailoring each playthrough with a different set of mods that support a particular character.

In the end... don't let my suggestions, or anyone else's for that matter, define your choice. Read, research and decide for yourself. It's your game.

I sure wouldn't wait on an update that no one knows when it comming.

[Liquid Inc]

Originally posted by aro230:

Thing is, I don't wanna use anything that heavily relies on scripts, so no F4SE for me. And I'm looking forward to the next gen patch anyway, I'm just curious how much could it break

If your not using F4SE, you'll just have to check what the update changes and make sure none of your mods change those things. You'll probably have nothing to worry about.

You won't be able to protect your game without F4SE, but the flip side is you won't have that much to worry about; you might lose a couple of mods depending on what the update changes.

Not sure how you can look forward to something that we have little information on, but it is interesting nonetheless i agree.

Originally posted by Stuff:

The first thing the new update is gonna do is break F4SE like all the other updates and consequential, will break everything that relies on F4SE

Which, like skyrim is generally fixed in a matter of days...
Might be slightly longer given Fallout hasn't been touched in years, but i doubt it'll take long. Completely irrelevant if you protect your game though!

Originally posted by Stuff:

It will take about 1-2 months for them to be fixed, if Bathesda doesn't do like it did for Skirim, completly broke all mods, which is something I don't think will happen here, but who knows.

They broke it so much in that Skyrim update because it was a Compiler change. Most of the time it's a simple version change and that's it, and the Script Extender is updated to match pretty quickly...

Originally posted by Stuff:

That's why I already set my game to not update automatic and will finish this current playthrough I'm doing and update this later

Remember to set the manifest file to read only too if you haven't already!

[aro230]

Originally posted by Liquid Inc:

Originally posted by aro230:

Thing is, I don't wanna use anything that heavily relies on scripts, so no F4SE for me. And I'm looking forward to the next gen patch anyway, I'm just curious how much could it break

If your not using F4SE, you'll just have to check what the update changes and make sure none of your mods change those things. You'll probably have nothing to worry about.

You won't be able to protect your game without F4SE, but the flip side is you won't have that much to worry about; you might lose a couple of mods depending on what the update changes.

Not sure how you can look forward to something that we have little information on, but it is interesting nonetheless i agree.

Originally posted by Stuff:

The first thing the new update is gonna do is break F4SE like all the other updates and consequential, will break everything that relies on F4SE

Which, like skyrim is generally fixed in a matter of days...
Might be slightly longer given Fallout hasn't been touched in years, but i doubt it'll take long. Completely irrelevant if you protect your game though!

Originally posted by Stuff:

It will take about 1-2 months for them to be fixed, if Bathesda doesn't do like it did for Skirim, completly broke all mods, which is something I don't think will happen here, but who knows.

They broke it so much in that Skyrim update because it was a Compiler change. Most of the time it's a simple version change and that's it, and the Script Extender is updated to match pretty quickly...

Originally posted by Stuff:

That's why I already set my game to not update automatic and will finish this current playthrough I'm doing and update this later

Remember to set the manifest file to read only too if you haven't already!

Thanks. As I said, most of the mods I wanna use are lore-friendly and pretty non-invasive I think. Just some new radio songs, Homemaker (new, mostly vanilla settlement objects) as well as True Storms. Don't know if these rely on scripts or not, but I hope they're safe

[Liquid Inc]

Originally posted by aro230:

Thanks. As I said, most of the mods I wanna use are lore-friendly and pretty non-invasive I think. Just some new radio songs, Homemaker (new, mostly vanilla settlement objects) as well as True Storms. Don't know if these rely on scripts or not, but I hope they're safe

Radio songs you should be fine with, though Homemaker and True Storms are.. big mods. Virtually -every- mod relies on scripts though, unless it's a pure texture replacer.

They'll be as safe as any mod can be, but until the update is out, we won't know exactly what Beth will change, and what mods are affected by those changes. The only mods that will 100% break will be ones that those changes affect.

Most F4SE mods themselves don't break, the reason they stop working is F4SE itself needing it's update.
Take SkyUI for Skyrim as an example; relies on SKSE, but hasn't had an update in years yet works just fine.

There's loads of Lore Friendly and non invasive mods out there, even ones reliant on F4SE and the unofficial patch.

[aro230]

Originally posted by Liquid Inc:

Originally posted by aro230:

Thanks. As I said, most of the mods I wanna use are lore-friendly and pretty non-invasive I think. Just some new radio songs, Homemaker (new, mostly vanilla settlement objects) as well as True Storms. Don't know if these rely on scripts or not, but I hope they're safe

Radio songs you should be fine with, though Homemaker and True Storms are.. big mods. Virtually -every- mod relies on scripts though, unless it's a pure texture replacer.

They'll be as safe as any mod can be, but until the update is out, we won't know exactly what Beth will change, and what mods are affected by those changes. The only mods that will 100% break will be ones that those changes affect.

Most F4SE mods themselves don't break, the reason they stop working is F4SE itself needing it's update.
Take SkyUI for Skyrim as an example; relies on SKSE, but hasn't had an update in years yet works just fine.

There's loads of Lore Friendly and non invasive mods out there, even ones reliant on F4SE and the unofficial patch.

Thanks a lot. I think I'm gonna give it a try and backup my saves just in case. The mods are too cool to miss out on

[=EGC= kansasterry]

Originally posted by .:Jj:.:

Originally posted by aro230:

I've heard it makes some unnecessary changes too

Like what?

I've 'heard' Earth is flat. Let's talk about facts. Nothing is "essential". If it was it would be built-in or at least there would be a notification on the Fallout 4 product page that such a thing is required. You can finish the final mission without it.

You have, rounding down, a billion entries in the patch history:
https://www.afkmods.com/Unofficial%20Fallout%204%20Patch%20Version%20History.html

Read the notes and decide if you mind these bugs and issues. If you're doing a playthrough that is modded I'm not sure how is that even a question. I've played maybe 2-3 hrs of completely vanilla F4. Rest, out of 620hrs was played with F4UP, never had any issues related to UP, and very, very few problems at all with maybe one major one, that was related to an unknown mod and was fixed by reloading an earlier savegame.

adding the gen 3 synth component to all synths, changing several quests and other content for reasons not bug related. Not listing these changes in the mod documentation.

Conflicting with a number of mods by editing the same forms they do (granted some are bug fixes).

a lot of the "fixes" are for issues that can be resolved by following the game creators instructions and not exceeding 60fps.

[Xeriath]

You don’t need UFO4P if you don’t want it, but I think the patch is nice and I personally don’t have any issue with it. Although I must say I never use much mods at the moment only 87 mods in my good days it was 220. The patch self gave me never an issue and all my save got played longer and I never needed to restart because my save got corrupt because of mods, all my saves/characters got abandoned because of me.

I was used to play without mods because I played fallout 4 on release on console and there I had only the problem with CTD in Boston. The patch fixed some bugs which I encounter on Xbox so it was nice that the patch fixed this bugs.

I would not wait for the update, and just start careful with modding. You can still create a new save if the update rolls out, with other or no mods. I personally use Mod Organizer2 for modding because you can have more profiles which can have different mods and MO2 never store your mods in your steam fo4 folder so if you start the game via steam, you always got a vanilla game.

[Zekiran]

I've played this game this long and have never had need for it. I will not rely on an overarching mod that makes a game playable - the game IS playable, eminently so, without it.

I'm in that boat of 'I could try and play Mass Effect but it will not run properly so I have to have a full conversion mod to do it' meaning I will not be playing Mass Effect. Same thing with STALKER. If it's unplayable without a full mod, it's not worth playing. The Unofficial Patch is only a patch, but it is not really a needed thing at all.

[Iron Knights]

I like my mag-locks doors to open when I unlock them. Plus many other bugs squashed. I don't like CTDs in the Institute 700m Radius.

[aro230]

Originally posted by Xeriath:

You don’t need UFO4P if you don’t want it, but I think the patch is nice and I personally don’t have any issue with it. Although I must say I never use much mods at the moment only 87 mods in my good days it was 220. The patch self gave me never an issue and all my save got played longer and I never needed to restart because my save got corrupt because of mods, all my saves/characters got abandoned because of me.

I was used to play without mods because I played fallout 4 on release on console and there I had only the problem with CTD in Boston. The patch fixed some bugs which I encounter on Xbox so it was nice that the patch fixed this bugs.

I would not wait for the update, and just start careful with modding. You can still create a new save if the update rolls out, with other or no mods. I personally use Mod Organizer2 for modding because you can have more profiles which can have different mods and MO2 never store your mods in your steam fo4 folder so if you start the game via steam, you always got a vanilla game.

I've been wondering whether I should use Vortex or MO2 but I think this might settle it for me. It'd great to have the launcher be completely separate from steam indeed