Father can't be Shaun

[Zibby]

SPOILERS AHEAD!!


Here is my theory on why Father, leader of the institute, cannot be your son Shaun.
First of all the biggest reason I believe this to be true is because while exploring Kellog's memories the last memory you encounter has the radio playing, on the radio you can hear Travis Miles talking about Pipers latest story kicking up a fuss about the institute. When you talk to Piper (When you first tell her that the institute has Shaun) she says that she's been working on the institute story for just over a year, not 50 years. Also no way is Piper in her 50's/60's. Same story with Travis, the radio presenter for Diamond City Radio, he looks like he is in his mid 20's, so how can he be on the radio supposedly 50 years in the past?


When you interact with Shaun during this last memory Kellog says he's gunna miss him, he says it like he's never going to see him again, well if Kellog works for the institute then why would he not see him again in the future?

When first entering the institue you encounter a synth child that represents your son, this is when Father tells you that he is Shaun. I believe he says this because he realises that you have the potential to destroy the institute, you're not exactly gunna join sides with the institute if he says 'yeah sorry we stole Shaun and used him to make Gen 3 synths, but hey, still wanna join up?' He uses the excuse that he is your son to make you join up. How could a kidnapped kid become the leader of the institute anyway? From what we know so far people who are kidnapped and replaced by synths go missing for good, what makes Shaun any different other than the fact he is from before the war?

That's just speculation and there isn't any real evidence to support that last point. But I'm not done yet. There's still that fact that in Kellogs last memory he is tasked with hunting down and killing Virgil, our task as the sole survivor is to find Virgil, and indeed we do find him, alive and well. Meaning that either Kellog is the worst assassin ever, glowing sea or no, or that 50 years hasn't actually passed. And considering that Kellog is the institutes best mercenary I doubt that it will have taken him 50 years to accomplish his mission. In fact, the sole survivor finds Virgil with minimal problems. Also, within the institute Virgils lab is still in ruins, meaning the institute hasn't cleaned up in 50 years?

However though this is all just speculation and I'm not trying to force my view upon anyone, that's just the evidence I have found against Father and I shall leave you guys to come to your own conclusions. There is obvious evidence against him been Shaun, but also evidence which I haven't mentioned which point to him actually been Shaun, but I think that the evidence for him been Shaun is made up by the institute.

[grimjac100]

Rezzing the conflict as I just revisited the game...!

I still gotta go with The Old Man not being Shaun, because there's more in-game lore to support it than there is for the opposite. Now, a lot of people reference the various Wikis to support their stance about The Old Man being Shaun, but...newsflash: wikis aren't always right. In most cases they collect info from various sources and there is *no* guarantee their info is correct. "I read it on the internet!" is not a trump card in any debate.

In this case, there is no in-game evidence to support the theory that The Old Man is actually Shaun. Going by various terminals, Kellogg's memories, etc...way more evidence to the contrary. In actual fact, we don't *know* what happened to Shaun. Sure, The Institute tells us X and Y, but why do we believe these kidnapping murderous bastiches? May as well state emphatically that Baby Shaun was taken so his stem cells could be harvested to cure The Old Man's herpes; Parental Unit left alive to provide a control group.

Just as much in-game evidence to support that theory as that The Old Man is Shaun or there are numerous Old Men.

When the only evidence you have is The Old Man saying something...that's not evidence. There are numerous examples of two identical people each claiming the other is a synth, so...people lie and any character saying something does not automatically mean what they're telling you is the truth.

But everyone gets to write their own version, which is actually pretty awesome.

[Yhwach]

Father is shaun you necroing heathen, and your attempt to argue otherwise is just you misunderstanding the game's story.
There was a "previous" Institute Director, assumably an older gentleman, and doesn't necessarily mean that it's the same one you meet later on.
There's NUMEROUS amounts of evidence that contradicts, and debunks various arguments stating that Father isn't Shaun, because he is.

[=)]

Official "truth" Father is Shaun... look he just is.
Problem is thats a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ horrible plot twist for anyone like myself who wa actually invested in rescuing their son (because I actually have one). Getting a robot clone as a consolation prize later is also a pathetic idea by somebody who really should never have kids or even pets.

Oh and finding out your son grew up to be a nazi scientist like josef mengele... also pretty f*cking screwed up

[Flippy]

引用自 grimjac100：

Rezzing the conflict as I just revisited the game...!

I still gotta go with The Old Man not being Shaun, because there's more in-game lore to support it than there is for the opposite. Now, a lot of people reference the various Wikis to support their stance about The Old Man being Shaun, but...newsflash: wikis aren't always right. In most cases they collect info from various sources and there is *no* guarantee their info is correct. "I read it on the internet!" is not a trump card in any debate.

In this case, there is no in-game evidence to support the theory that The Old Man is actually Shaun. Going by various terminals, Kellogg's memories, etc...way more evidence to the contrary. In actual fact, we don't *know* what happened to Shaun. Sure, The Institute tells us X and Y, but why do we believe these kidnapping murderous bastiches? May as well state emphatically that Baby Shaun was taken so his stem cells could be harvested to cure The Old Man's herpes; Parental Unit left alive to provide a control group.

Just as much in-game evidence to support that theory as that The Old Man is Shaun or there are numerous Old Men.

When the only evidence you have is The Old Man saying something...that's not evidence. There are numerous examples of two identical people each claiming the other is a synth, so...people lie and any character saying something does not automatically mean what they're telling you is the truth.

But everyone gets to write their own version, which is actually pretty awesome.

Correct.

Only future titles or DLC can remove any doubts. Fact is going by the story everything the Institute says is a lie, because in this situation dont have to wonder which is the synth or not, because there is a guy looking the player right in the face saying he is Institute.

[AlexMBrennan]

Sure, The Institute tells us X and Y, but why do we believe these kidnapping murderous bastiches?

So what's your theory then? Father is a random Institute member, who randomly picks the Sole Survivor, gives them the ability to enter the Institute (by leaving Kellog to be killed by the Sole Survivor), then gave the Sole Survivor control over the Institute for... what reason? Mad Science? It's a kinda a stupid pointless risk giving a random person of unknown loyalties that much access to your base if you primarily rely on stealth and subterfuge.

Sure, it's possible that they are completely mad and do random things at random without any concern for their own wellbeing or survival but I don't think that's a very convincing explanation.

[DouglasGrave]

引用自 Flippy：

Fact is going by the story everything the Institute says is a lie, because in this situation dont have to wonder which is the synth or not, because there is a guy looking the player right in the face saying he is Institute.

If everything the Institute says is a lie, then the guy in question is obviously not with the Institute, since if he were, he'd say he wasn't part of the Institute, due to always lying.

[Flippy]

引用自 DouglasGrave：

引用自 Flippy：

Fact is going by the story everything the Institute says is a lie, because in this situation dont have to wonder which is the synth or not, because there is a guy looking the player right in the face saying he is Institute.

If everything the Institute says is a lie, then the guy in question is obviously not with the Institute, since if he were, he'd say he wasn't part of the Institute, due to always lying.

Yep he stood inside the Institute wearing Institute clothing and told the player a totally made up story. Knowing the Fallout 4 story what did the player expect?

I mean did anyone bother to think, "I wonder what the Institute will say when i get there?". Knowing the use of synths to impersonate people, it had to be expected they would impersonate the person the survivor was looking for right.

[Slaughterer]

I'm not slogging through 3 pages of retarded arguments, stupid observations and pseudo-intellectual frauds. I didn't even make it through *one* page of 50 posts. This is pathetic to read so i'm just going to make my case here and hope you all wake up to yourselves;

Shaun was base for the phase 3 synths because he had uncorrupted DNA. Radiation, corrupts DNA. If the corruption was possible in the Institute, Shaun having cancer would make sense.

But it doesn't. So Shaun (having "Perfect DNA") literally cannot ever get cancer.
Cancer is the result of a genetic switch "turning off" and allowing cells to replicate without a timed self-destruction. Diets high in B10 or Cannabis oil and other superfoods literally never get cancer.

Can't get it.

Our bodies just function that way.

Which is why Cancer has only become a "Lifestyle disease" and an epidemic....

Since we ♥♥♥♥♥♥' banned Cannabis.

[DouglasGrave]

引用自 Flippy：

引用自 DouglasGrave：

If everything the Institute says is a lie, then the guy in question is obviously not with the Institute, since if he were, he'd say he wasn't part of the Institute, due to always lying.

Yep he stood inside the Institute wearing Institute clothing and told the player a totally made up story. Knowing the Fallout 4 story what did the player expect?

I mean did anyone bother to think, "I wonder what the Institute will say when i get there?". Knowing the use of synths to impersonate people, it had to be expected they would impersonate the person the survivor was looking for right.

You never get to the Institute, because your only source indicating that's the Institute is the Institute itself, and as you've indicated, the Institute always lies.

The Institute also doesn't have or use any synths at all, have never heard of the Railroad, and do not want you to do anything in regard to the surface. The sources claiming otherwise are Institute sources, and therefore lying.

[DouglasGrave]

引用自 Pure_Phoenix：

I'm not slogging through 3 pages of retarded arguments, stupid observations and pseudo-intellectual frauds. I didn't even make it through *one* page of 50 posts. This is pathetic to read so i'm just going to make my case here and hope you all wake up to yourselves;

Shaun was base for the phase 3 synths because he had uncorrupted DNA. Radiation, corrupts DNA. If the corruption was possible in the Institute, Shaun having cancer would make sense.

But it doesn't. So Shaun (having "Perfect DNA") literally cannot ever get cancer.
Cancer is the result of a genetic switch "turning off" and allowing cells to replicate without a timed self-destruction. Diets high in B10 or Cannabis oil and other superfoods literally never get cancer.

Can't get it.

Our bodies just function that way.

Which is why Cancer has only become a "Lifestyle disease" and an epidemic....

Since we ♥♥♥♥♥♥' banned Cannabis.

Cancer can result from various sources of genetic damage or degregation that lead to cell growth becoming uncontrolled. Dietary factors can drastically reduce the chances of this happening in a variety of ways, and help the body to counteract the cancer, without preventing other causes from still being possible.

Starting out with essentially undamaged genetic material does not make Shaun invulnerable to genetic damage.

[Slaughterer]

引用自 DouglasGrave：

Cancer can result from various sources of genetic damage or degregation

Stop right there. Cannabis heals genetic/DNA damage. That's why it's effective. I hear vitamin b10-12 also serves as a direct trigger for the "Self-Destruction" switch on cancerous cells, but i have only seen this once in real life tests and cannot confirm the science behind it.

Not because it's wrong.
Because the scientific community are literally lying about the consumption of apricot pips and how consuming them *probably* results in B12 *not cyanide*.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Father is Shaun, you can tell this yourself by messing with your character's facial features. The only other option was that Shaun/Father was also a synth, but he has no component.

Also, Synths don't get cancer.

[DouglasGrave]

引用自 Pure_Phoenix：

引用自 DouglasGrave：

Cancer can result from various sources of genetic damage or degregation

Stop right there. Cannabis heals genetic/DNA damage. That's why it's effective. I hear vitamin b10-12 also serves as a direct trigger for the "Self-Destruction" switch on cancerous cells, but i have only seen this once in real life tests and cannot confirm the science behind it.

There are some nutritional or medical supplements that can support the body in handling certain types of cancer in various ways. None of them are a cureall for genetic damage. Even cannabis plants themselves aren't immune to genetic damage.

[Slaughterer]

引用自 Hobo Misanthropus：

Father is Shaun, you can tell this yourself by messing with your character's facial features. The only other option was that Shaun/Father was also a synth, but he has no component.

Also, Synths don't get cancer.

1. Wrong, he always appears the same and claiming otherwise is either the result of a mod you forgot about, or you're lying. It hasn't been shown on YT even.

2. He's a synth. Some synths have no components.

3. Actually, if you play through the institute ending long enough, you'll find an overwhelming number of them are 'recycled' because they came out imperfect. Due to radiation damage and cancer etc.

[Slaughterer]

But anyway, i tire of this debate.

Father himself admits he's lying about being shaun, for multiple reasons;
He refers to Kellogg as barely over 100 years old.
The war was 210 ago, going by what that ghoul says in Goodneighbour and your reaction to her (she sells armour, has a bench, mindblank about her name rn).

Father claims to be only 70 years old, but the one who "continued using Kellogg after [Fathers] predecessor died".

That makes for....;
A) Kellogg being 250+ years old and even in his memories, very young looking for his age. He'd have to be 50 and looking 30-odd.

B) Father a liar and he's a synth who's lived 150+ years, or a liar who has improved kellogg enough to live 250 years.

C) Father a liar about the fact human tissue can live longer than ~75 years (Although not likely, as both Amari and the Railroad confirm that the oldest semi-biological synths are at max ~70 years old. But they don't know abuot Kellogg!)

Then there's whatisname from Far Habour? A 215-ish year old Synth.
And Nick.

So we have irrefutible proof that ;
DNA can survive even heavily irradiated for 210+ years.
Synths contain said DNA (probably in a lead-protected enclosure/brain).
Father is a liar who doesn't even -understand- what's going on above ground, because he doesn't even know that Nick Valentine disproves every single claim he makes.