question about creation kit or G.E.C.K and mods..

[REDSHADOW]

Noob question but seeing as I dont make mods. How come people want the G.E.C.K so much if by the first week we already started to get mods without it? It does not make sense. If the GECK was meant to make mods but we didn’t have the geck to begin with and mods was already coming out what’s the point? What does GECK or creation kit does mods dont have.

last night I was watching a video of a moder making a "vault settlement" mod and saying it was in its alpha stable and by luck if we get the GECK the mod would be more stable but I dont understand that.

[Al]

Am guessing its because people then can do stuff to the map of fallout 4 and opitmize the game etc more effectivly. And its just hell of alot easier to mod. Sorry bad english :)

[Vinnie Mack]

there are certain types of mods that can't be made, or are hard to make, without the Geck. Not being a modder myself, i am not sure about the specifics. And it will be easier to make mods because the Geck gives the modder access to all the game resources. So if someone wants to make a character with side quests and plop them into the game, it can be done much easier with the Geck.

[REDSHADOW]

Originally posted by Vinnie Mack:

there are certain types of mods that can't be made, or are hard to make, without the Geck. Not being a modder myself, i am not sure about the specifics. And it will be easier to make mods because the Geck gives the modder access to all the game resources. So if someone wants to make a character with side quests and plop them into the game, it can be done much easier with the Geck.

understandable, I had a strong feeling it was mainly something related to that matter thank you both for the 2 cents

[Shad]

Originally posted by Vinnie Mack:

there are certain types of mods that can't be made, or are hard to make, without the Geck. Not being a modder myself, i am not sure about the specifics. And it will be easier to make mods because the Geck gives the modder access to all the game resources. So if someone wants to make a character with side quests and plop them into the game, it can be done much easier with the Geck.

Besides proper record creation, the map editor, and quick access to a variety of options and other course proper record editing like npc editing, fallout4edit can essentially be used to create an assortment of mods, but not to the extent of the creation kit.

[MaximumEffort]

Originally posted by REDSHADOW:

How come people want the G.E.C.K so much if by the first week we already started to get mods without it?

They don't want it, its just a reason to make a whole thread about people wanting it...

oh, wait!

[REDSHADOW]

Originally posted by Scarecrow:

Originally posted by Vinnie Mack:

there are certain types of mods that can't be made, or are hard to make, without the Geck. Not being a modder myself, i am not sure about the specifics. And it will be easier to make mods because the Geck gives the modder access to all the game resources. So if someone wants to make a character with side quests and plop them into the game, it can be done much easier with the Geck.

Besides proper record creation, the map editor, and quick access to a variety of options and other course proper record editing like npc editing, fallout4edit can essentially be used to create an assortment of mods, but not to the extent of the creation kit.

judging by that dont you think that bethesda is more reluctant to releasing the GECK seeing as that would make people make better quests or something and make the dlcs that bethesda make bad and no sales?

[Vinnie Mack]

Bethesda sold 12 million copies of their game in the first day or week. And i heard that they have since sold 20 million. They have sold more than double the number of copies that the Witcher 3. So they aren't worrying about sales of the game. What they may be worried about is the sale of dlc to those that didn't buy the season pass. Some have suggested that the Geck has been held back so that dlc-lite like Wasteland workshop will sell. Not sure if that is true, since all the console players have no mods whatsoever. And the PS4 owners alone number about 30 t0 40 million gamers. Though not all of them bought fallout 4, i am sure many of them did (including myself). They might want to get the dlc to make settlements less irritating to make.

[Shalmendo]

The GECK is the main 'editor' for the entire game system that Bethesda uses for it's open world games. Anyone making mods without it is going about it in a roundabout way that usually involves things like direct file edits, hex editing, file replacements, and various other jury rigs.

By using the GECK itself, mods are generally less messy, easier to install/remove, and much more stable then they would have been otherwise.

Using the actual GECK allows mod creators an entire suite of tools designed to work with the game engine, it's files, and all of the subtle details like scripts, character AI packages, and various other resources that are nearly impossible to work with otherwise.

One good example is that it's especially difficult to make new NPCs and companions without the GECK so modders just modify (through indirect means) an existing companion instead. One such mod alters Paladin Danse to look like Buzz Lightyear instead of creating an all new NPC companion to fill that role.

Without the GECK adding new things will be severely limited, restricted, and messy. You can find plenty of reports on the forums of people installing mods and then having incredibly strange and 'impossible' game breaking issues due to things like that. Two mods that touch on the same parts of the game will conflict with each other horribly without the GECK. Even WITH the GECK conflicting mods can still cause unusual behaviour but the GECK has the advantage of layering mods together and that results in less conflicting and game breakage. (quite often you'll hose your game saves as soon as you load up a mod and save with it. AKA a horse mod making all horses nonfunctional in your Skrim game if you remove it later for whatever reason, forcing a new game or reverting to a save from BEFORE you installed the mod in the first place)

You generally want to have a nice backup save on hand incase you discover that a mod hosed some function in your game save (Breaking a companion, or feature, etc), so you can go back and keep your gam working again. Lots of mods end up leaving things behind in your save that can not only bloat your file, but cause errors or leave scripts running that just use up memory uselessly.

TLDR: GECK is less messy then current mods, more stable, and have far more potential. (I'm not using mods until the GECK is released and plenty of people have had time to update their mods through the GECK so things don't break as easily.)

And in regards to 'holding back' the GECK so they can sell their DLCS, I view the DLCs as frameworks for modders to expand upon. Robco Buildable Bots and Robco Certified were GREAT mods but the modder was forced to create their own system entirely from scratch and this meant that hey worked so much on making buildable bots and the follow ai commands etc they had less time to do other things. The mods were also very crash ridden! Now, if that same modder wanted to work on Fallout 4, there is allready an existing framework they can use..they can just expand on it heavily, or tweak it to suit what they want to do with it. Less effort spent, and now the game supports that kind of addition virtually natively.

[REDSHADOW]

^ thanks for the detailed explanation

[Shalmendo]

Originally posted by REDSHADOW:

^ thanks for the detailed explanation

A lot of people don't know that Mods tend to leave behind junk in their savegames and can still screw things up even after they've been removed, beause remnants linger in the save files.

Starting a new game is really the only way to fix those problems. Or use a save from before you used the mod.

Not saying that the mods linger in the game itself, just in a specific save you played the mod with.

[REDSHADOW]

Originally posted by Shalmendo:

Originally posted by REDSHADOW:

^ thanks for the detailed explanation

A lot of people don't know that Mods tend to leave behind junk in their savegames and can still screw things up even after they've been removed, beause remnants linger in the save files.

I will keep that in mind next time I play skyrim or any other game that has mods

[Shad]

Originally posted by REDSHADOW:

Originally posted by Scarecrow:

Besides proper record creation, the map editor, and quick access to a variety of options and other course proper record editing like npc editing, fallout4edit can essentially be used to create an assortment of mods, but not to the extent of the creation kit.

judging by that dont you think that bethesda is more reluctant to releasing the GECK seeing as that would make people make better quests or something and make the dlcs that bethesda make bad and no sales?

That's called the tin foil hat narrative, It's not because they'd make better mods when in comparison of their own content, they're very open ended and have respect for their modding community; if they didn't, they wouldn't have let anyone use their development tools.

[Vinnie Mack]

Originally posted by Scarecrow:

Originally posted by REDSHADOW:

judging by that dont you think that bethesda is more reluctant to releasing the GECK seeing as that would make people make better quests or something and make the dlcs that bethesda make bad and no sales?

That's called the tin foil hat narrative, It's not because they'd make better mods when in comparison of their own content, they're very open ended and love their modding community; if they didn't, they wouldn't have let anyone use their development tools.

Bethesda doesn't get enough credit for this. They only get whining and hate. Thanks Scarecrow for pointing this out.

[Shalmendo]

Originally posted by REDSHADOW:

Originally posted by Shalmendo:

A lot of people don't know that Mods tend to leave behind junk in their savegames and can still screw things up even after they've been removed, beause remnants linger in the save files.

I will keep that in mind next time I play skyrim or any other game that has mods

This goes for any of the Bethesda games. Including Fallout 4, New Vegas, Fallout 3, Skyrim, Oblivion, and even Morrowind. Just an obscure detail that trips people up.

That said though, mods are what REALLY adds extra play potential to any of those games. One of my favorites was Fallout Who Vegas for New Vegas that introduces a lot of Dr. Who elements into the game. Quite fantastic.

The problem is the quality of the mods. Lots of modders will accidentally touch on files without making changes or change them back..but because they were touched at all, it inflates the size of the mod plugin file and can cause other problems. There's a lot of obscure little details.

I generally look through a Mod's reviews and other information to see what kind of isses (if any) people are having, and make sure I have a folder of backed up saves to make sure I have something to recover from before I start using a mod i'm not familiar with, just incase it's glitchy, shoddy, or ruins my save somehow.

Nexus mods is a great site to see information and discussion on mods before you download then, and the mod manager they also publish is my quality go-to for mod management and installing, uninstalling, updating, and so on.

[Shad]

Originally posted by Vinnie Mack:

Originally posted by Scarecrow:

That's called the tin foil hat narrative, It's not because they'd make better mods when in comparison of their own content, they're very open ended and love their modding community; if they didn't, they wouldn't have let anyone use their development tools.

Bethesda doesn't get enough credit for this. They only get whining and hate. Thanks Scarecrow for pointing this out.

People don't seem to care, or even consider that bethesda has a very strong respect for their own modding community, considering some of their own team members have made their own, and have made their tools available to their community.