issue with greentop nursery happiness

[Sugram22]

having issue with greentop nursery happiness was away from greenhouse nursery for long time all was fine, suddenly synth attack & i go there to help defend, & after that i notice happiness 16, no idea was it 16 before i came there to or not, but new it went to 12, despite it showed green arrow up before i left, settlers acting messed up, well bartender & other shop keepers not at there stands, walking around, but i can buy stuff from them, guards also walk around & switching posts, maybe there is code to reset their behavior? or some other fix, i feel like i'm trapped in there, cant levee, i think my presents is only thing keeping the happiness at where it is, also no1 there has given me a mission neither, i walked pass by all of them to see if that's the cause of happiness issue or not

[Suicide_King12]

Simple solution, KILL'EM ALL!!!! Mini Nuke for every one!

[ogreballerina]

Originally posted by Suicide_King12:

Simple solution, KILL'EM ALL!!!! Mini Nuke for every one!

I like the way you think.

[Jollyfingers]

did you get rid of the prefabricated beds?
they sometimes don't count as "sheltered" and as long as they are there, they will lower happiness (even if not used).
in most cases you will have to use the console to get rid of them... i don't remember if the greentop ones are scrappable.

but they shouldn't put you at 16....

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Sugram22:

having issue with greenhouse nursery happiness was away from greenhouse nursery for long time all was fine, suddenly synth attack & i go there to help defend, & after that i notice happiness 16, no idea was it 16 before i came there to or not

Most likely to reach 16 happiness you had the 0 data bug and did not notice it or ignored it. For a very long time.

Originally posted by Sugram22:

but new it went to 12, despite it showed green arrow up before i left.

Bad timing. The next hapiness checkpoint was alreayd slated to drop you to 12 from 16, after that happened it corrected itself and showed an up arrow.

Originally posted by Sugram22:

settlers acting messed up, well bartender & other shop keepers not at there stands, walking around, but i can buy stuff from them, guards also walk around & switching posts, maybe there is code to reset their behavior?

That is all NORMAL behavior. If it is between 8am and 8pm shopkeepers are at their shops, at night they relax and sleep. If the settlement is attacked they will leave the shops to defend (duh) and it takes time for them to return to their shop. Settlers assigned to guard will wander around, that is their job, plus one guard covers 3 guard stations.

Originally posted by Sugram22:

i think my presents is only thing keeping the happiness at where it is

Your presence at a settlement has ZERO effect on happiness. However your presence at a settlement prevents (or corrects) the 0s in the data shown in the pip boy. This is why your current happiness changed to a green arrow while you were there.

Originally posted by Jollyfingers:

did you get rid of the prefabricated beds?
they sometimes don't count as "sheltered" and as long as they are there, they will lower happiness (even if not used).
in most cases you will have to use the console to get rid of them... i don't remember if the greentop ones are scrappable.

but they shouldn't put you at 16....

I doubt he removed the beds, even then that is only a -20 penalty like you thought. Basically reduces you to a max of 60 target happiness instead of 80 for meeting basic needs. This is before any bonus happiness is added.

To reach 16 happiness you basically have to have NOTHING in your settlement. Especially to have it jump 4 poitns from 16 to 12 because current happiness moves faster towards target happiness the farther away it is. Which means he had a target of 0 (or lower if that is possible.)

[Jollyfingers]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by Jollyfingers:

did you get rid of the prefabricated beds?
they sometimes don't count as "sheltered" and as long as they are there, they will lower happiness (even if not used).
in most cases you will have to use the console to get rid of them... i don't remember if the greentop ones are scrappable.

but they shouldn't put you at 16....

I doubt he removed the beds, even then that is only a -20 penalty like you thought. Basically reduces you to a max of 60 target happiness instead of 80 for meeting basic needs. This is before any bonus happiness is added.

To reach 16 happiness you basically have to have NOTHING in your settlement. Especially to have it jump 4 poitns from 16 to 12 because current happiness moves faster towards target happiness the farther away it is. Which means he had a target of 0 (or lower if that is possible.)

Still learning about happiness.
I thought the "0 data" thing only (mostly) happens in the Sanctuary/Abernathy/RR "bermuda triangle".
I'm not much of a settlement builder... but if anything drops below 80 i'll go and have a look.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Jollyfingers:

Still learning about happiness.
I thought the "0 data" thing only (mostly) happens in the Sanctuary/Abernathy/RR "bermuda triangle".
I'm not much of a settlement builder... but if anything drops below 80 i'll go and have a look.

The zero data bug can happen to ANY settlement that you pass close to but do not enter. It is far more frequent on survival because of the lack of fast travel.

Falling below 80 and paying a visit is good practice. Just keep in mind a single new settler can drop happiness by 2 points until their happiness average catches up. When a new settler arrives it only has a happiness of 50 and gets averaged in. A fast growing settlement can easily drop into the mid or low 70s because it did not get the opportunity to catch back up after the last arrival.

[Jollyfingers]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by Jollyfingers:

Still learning about happiness.
I thought the "0 data" thing only (mostly) happens in the Sanctuary/Abernathy/RR "bermuda triangle".
I'm not much of a settlement builder... but if anything drops below 80 i'll go and have a look.

The zero data bug can happen to ANY settlement that you pass close to but do not enter. It is far more frequent on survival because of the lack of fast travel.

Falling below 80 and paying a visit is good practice. Just keep in mind a single new settler can drop happiness by 2 points until their happiness average catches up. When a new settler arrives it only has a happiness of 50 and gets averaged in. A fast growing settlement can easily drop into the mid or low 70s because it did not get the opportunity to catch back up after the last arrival.

yes, i sometimes miss an arriving settler... and that's why i'm visiting if happiness drops.
i don't like slackers... if i go there i have some equipment on me for the newbie.
but i'm developing settlements slowly. never more than one or two beacons active (and most of the time i even remember which).

[mfree]

Base happiness for having no food/water is 30, it's pretty clearly defined in the scripts.

[Jollyfingers]

Originally posted by mfree:

Base happiness for having no food/water is 30, it's pretty clearly defined in the scripts.

add unsheltered beds and missing defense and you should be next to zero....

[mfree]

Unsheltered beds works by lowering the base to 60. Not sure on the missing defense.

[CaptainSarcastic]

Something I've found helpful is adding junkyard dogs to a settlement before the population gets big enough that I need to use Charisma-boosting consumables to move them there. Once you find Erickson in Far Harbor then you have a predictable place to buy them and get their bonus applied early rather than dealing with Charisma/population games later on.

[Sugram22]

Originally posted by Jollyfingers:

did you get rid of the prefabricated beds?
they sometimes don't count as "sheltered" and as long as they are there, they will lower happiness (even if not used).
in most cases you will have to use the console to get rid of them... i don't remember if the greentop ones are scrappable.

but they shouldn't put you at 16....

usually i remove futons & sleeping bags, if there are beds they remain cause they are showed in bed numbers, & i have 50 beds there lol

[Sugram22]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by Sugram22:

settlers acting messed up, well bartender & other shop keepers not at there stands, walking around, but i can buy stuff from them, guards also walk around & switching posts, maybe there is code to reset their behavior?

That is all NORMAL behavior. If it is between 8am and 8pm shopkeepers are at their shops, at night they relax and sleep. If the settlement is attacked they will leave the shops to defend (duh) and it takes time for them to return to their shop. Settlers assigned to guard will wander around, that is their job, plus one guard covers 3 guard stations.

it would be if it happened at that time u mentioned, but that was all the time, day & night

mostly i look happiness & other data when i'm in build mode, only when i'm far i take a look at pip boy & then maybe i go there & open build mode to confirm

i have more then ppl need in awry settlement, all stuff food water beds defense

[Sugram22]

Originally posted by CaptainSarcastic:

Something I've found helpful is adding junkyard dogs to a settlement before the population gets big enough that I need to use Charisma-boosting consumables to move them there. Once you find Erickson in Far Harbor then you have a predictable place to buy them and get their bonus applied early rather than dealing with Charisma/population games later on.

if harbor is in dlc, i don't have dlc

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by mfree:

Base happiness for having no food/water is 30, it's pretty clearly defined in the scripts.

Originally posted by mfree:

Unsheltered beds works by lowering the base to 60. Not sure on the missing defense.

You can have a target of 0 happiness without beds, food, water, and defense.

I know because I tortured a settlement in an experiement to see if I could lose a settlement. It was also how I was able to figure out all the penalties via console commands.

Not enough food is the big one at -50
Not enough beds is -20
Unsheltered beds is -20
Not enough defense to meet safety rating is -20
Not enough water worked on a percentage of -20 (or -30 text file on old PC) based upon how many were shorted.

This is why the 0s data bug is so deadly. It takes your target and basically makes is zero because it is figuring you have none of this. Throw in a double population at -2 happiness per new settler and you cna see why happiness drops like a rock when a settlement affected by the zero data bug.