Brotherhood Survives = Bad End

[ACExtravaganza]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why all of the guides to having only the institute destroyed as "best ending" or "good ending." Am I the only one who has a problem with tyranical facists who advocate genocide of "non-humans"? Why do so many people think the Brotherhood are good guys in this game?

Convince me my stance is wrong, please. I want to know why you don't think the brotherhood are horrible facists.

[ACExtravaganza]

Originally posted by big stupid jellyfish:

Originally posted by ACExtravaganza:

The Army Core of Engineers builds a lot of wells. Armies have a tendancy to build infrastructure in occupied territories. The brotherhood pillages the countryside for supplies so it can keep killing those it does not like.

And the Brotherhood supported Project Purity. Your point?
They are scavenging pre-war ruins for technology, how is that pillaging lol.

Lyon's brotherhood did. Lyon's brotherhood was a lot better than Maxson's. Maxson's brotherhood took universal control of pure water in the capital waste rather than freely distribute it and began hunting (or at least making them feel like a hunt was comming) the scientists who worked on the project. Just talk with the Purity scientist who defected to the Institute.

And they are going to farms and demanding tribute. Do you think you're the only "procurment mision" the brotherhood has sent out?

[Phoenix VII]

Like any organization you'd find in real life, the BoS aren't a group of saints, however they're strongest military organization in the game and are willing to help the people of the Commonwealth. Compared to the sociopaths at the Institute who unleashed the Super Mutants and Synths upon the Commonwealth, the fanatics at the Railroad, and the weakness of the Minutemen, the BoS represents the best chance of restoring law and order to the Commonwealth.

As for genocide of non-humans, who? The Super Mutants? Please.

Non-feral ghouls? They're the go-to for every anti-BoS fanatic but it won't hold any weight for me until someone can point to one example of a BoS trooper murdering a non-feral ghoul...an act that Danse will criticize you for if you do it yourself. The BoS certainly doesn't like non-ferals, much like 90%+ of the humans in the Commonwealth, but there's a major difference between hate and genocide.

Synths? As a whole they're the second biggest scourge that the Institute unleashed upon the Commonwealth, if you don't buy the nonsense that they're human then wiping them out sounds like a great idea...which is why 90%+ of the people of the Commonwealth hate synths as well.

[big stupid jellyfish]

Originally posted by ACExtravaganza:

Originally posted by big stupid jellyfish:

And the Brotherhood supported Project Purity. Your point?
They are scavenging pre-war ruins for technology, how is that pillaging lol.

Lyon's brotherhood did. Lyon's brotherhood was a lot better than Maxson's. Maxson's brotherhood took universal control of pure water in the capital waste rather than freely distribute it and began hunting (or at least making them feel like a hunt was comming) the scientists who worked on the project. Just talk with the Purity scientist who defected to the Institute.

And they are going to farms and demanding tribute. Do you think you're the only "procurment mision" the brotherhood has sent out?

Maxson's brotherhood IS the Lyons BoS, just under a different leader. They didn't take control of Project Purity and stopped distributing it, now you are just straight up lying.
Dr Li states in Fallout 4 that she left the capital wasteland because she didn't agree with the brotherhoods continued military presence there, if they wanted to prevent her from leaving or kill her, they would have.

Btw, Teagan's jobs are off the record and not officially sanctioned. You can just pay for the crops and everyone is happy, nobody forces you to be a ♥♥♥♥ and intimidate the farmers.

[ACExtravaganza]

Originally posted by big stupid jellyfish:

Originally posted by ACExtravaganza:

Lyon's brotherhood did. Lyon's brotherhood was a lot better than Maxson's. Maxson's brotherhood took universal control of pure water in the capital waste rather than freely distribute it and began hunting (or at least making them feel like a hunt was comming) the scientists who worked on the project. Just talk with the Purity scientist who defected to the Institute.

And they are going to farms and demanding tribute. Do you think you're the only "procurment mision" the brotherhood has sent out?

Maxson's brotherhood IS the Lyons BoS, just under a different leader. They didn't take control of Project Purity and stopped distributing it, now you are just straight up lying.
Dr Li states in Fallout 4 that she left the capital wasteland because she didn't agree with the brotherhoods continued military presence there, if they wanted to prevent her from leaving or kill her, they would have.

Btw, Teagan's jobs are off the record and not officially sanctioned. You can just pay for the crops and everyone is happy, nobody forces you to be a ♥♥♥♥ and intimidate the farmers.

Maxon's brotherhood is one that the Outcasts and West Coast can get behind. Lyon's brotherhood caused a split and abandoment by the West Coast.

Not stop its distribution, control its distribution.

Teagan is how they are getting their food. Even if they don't ask where its comming from, he is sending out paladins, without giving them caps for food, and telling them to bring back food for the brotherhood. If its the only way you get food, it dam well better be on your books, because you can't justify ignorace over the tactics employed.

Amnd like I said, he is sending mroe than just you. You may pay generously, but is someone who was just calling that farmer a barbarian going to show him any respect?

[big stupid jellyfish]

Originally posted by ACExtravaganza:

Maxon's brotherhood is one that the Outcasts and West Coast can get behind. Lyon's brotherhood caused a split and abandoment by the West Coast.

Still the same chapter and the same people.

Not stop its distribution, control its distribution.

The BoS always had a hand in its distribution along with rivet city security. They keep distributing it for free across the enitre wasteland, and there is no indication that Maxson put a stop to that. So yeah, you were lying.

Teagan is how they are getting their food. Even if they don't ask where its comming from, he is sending out paladins, without giving them caps for food, and telling them to bring back food for the brotherhood. If its the only way you get food, it dam well better be on your books, because you can't justify ignorace over the tactics employed.

No he isn't, he is just offering the jobs to you. They trade for supplies, if they were actively extorting Supplies from farmers, people would talk about it. Stop making stuff up.

Amnd like I said, he is sending mroe than just you. You may pay generously, but is someone who was just calling that farmer a barbarian going to show him any respect?

Unless there is any evidence of them going out and stealing food from innocents, i'm gonna call bs.

[Tim Timsen]

Originally posted by Phoenix VII:

Originally posted by Tim Timsen:

Because it's the easy way that dumb people without any ethics prefer to go.

Actually, that's something that applies more to the Institute fans than anyone else.

But the Institute doesn't have "badass guns".

[Dimathiel]

Originally posted by Phoenix VII:

Like any organization you'd find in real life, the BoS aren't a group of saints, however they're strongest military organization in the game and are willing to help the people of the Commonwealth. Compared to the sociopaths at the Institute who unleashed the Super Mutants and Synths upon the Commonwealth, the fanatics at the Railroad, and the weakness of the Minutemen, the BoS represents the best chance of restoring law and order to the Commonwealth.

As for genocide of non-humans, who? The Super Mutants? Please.

Non-feral ghouls? They're the go-to for every anti-BoS fanatic but it won't hold any weight for me until someone can point to one example of a BoS trooper murdering a non-feral ghoul...an act that Danse will criticize you for if you do it yourself. The BoS certainly doesn't like non-ferals, much like 90%+ of the humans in the Commonwealth, but there's a major difference between hate and genocide.

Synths? As a whole they're the second biggest scourge that the Institute unleashed upon the Commonwealth, if you don't buy the nonsense that they're human then wiping them out sounds like a great idea...which is why 90%+ of the people of the Commonwealth hate synths as well.

Most of the talk about synths in the Commonwealth is hearsay. As for being the strongest military organization, I think the NCR has the BoS beat at this point in time.

[Dimathiel]

Originally posted by big stupid jellyfish:

Originally posted by ACExtravaganza:

Maxon's brotherhood is one that the Outcasts and West Coast can get behind. Lyon's brotherhood caused a split and abandoment by the West Coast.

Still the same chapter and the same people.

Not stop its distribution, control its distribution.

The BoS always had a hand in its distribution along with rivet city security. They keep distributing it for free across the enitre wasteland, and there is no indication that Maxson put a stop to that. So yeah, you were lying.

Teagan is how they are getting their food. Even if they don't ask where its comming from, he is sending out paladins, without giving them caps for food, and telling them to bring back food for the brotherhood. If its the only way you get food, it dam well better be on your books, because you can't justify ignorace over the tactics employed.

No he isn't, he is just offering the jobs to you. They trade for supplies, if they were actively extorting Supplies from farmers, people would talk about it. Stop making stuff up.

Amnd like I said, he is sending mroe than just you. You may pay generously, but is someone who was just calling that farmer a barbarian going to show him any respect?

Unless there is any evidence of them going out and stealing food from innocents, i'm gonna call bs.

You can call bs all you want, but the planters onboard the Prydwen aren't nearly enough to feed an invading army with no supply chain back to its home base in DC, ergo they are pillaging from the local population. You really believe any farmer who has trouble dealing with raiders would dare say no to a squad of heavily armed and powered troops complete with air support?

Which is why I always stop to blow those vertibirds out of the sky when they show up, after all "
Live Free or Die!"

[big stupid jellyfish]

No, they buy their supplies just like everyone else. Ingame dialogue in Diamond city confirms that. does the Railroad raid people because they have no farms?

[Phoenix VII]

Originally posted by Dimathiel:

Most of the talk about synths in the Commonwealth is hearsay. As for being the strongest military organization, I think the NCR has the BoS beat at this point in time.

1. No, it isn't. They do kidnap and replace people to serve as agents. They do kidnap people for the Institute's FEV experiments. They do kill anyone they run into during their scavenging runs. They did destroy University Point. If you don't see them as human, then wiping them all out will sound like a very good idea.

2. So what? The closest the NCR are to Boston is...Nevada.

[Phoenix VII]

Originally posted by Dimathiel:

You can call bs all you want, but the planters onboard the Prydwen aren't nearly enough to feed an invading army with no supply chain back to its home base in DC, ergo they are pillaging from the local population. You really believe any farmer who has trouble dealing with raiders would dare say no to a squad of heavily armed and powered troops complete with air support?

Dude, the BoS is downright generous compared to the average foreign army in history considering they'll protect the settlement from all threats and not interfere with their daily lives after the settlement agrees to provide the BoS with food. Methinks you protest too much.

Which is why I always stop to blow those vertibirds out of the sky when they show up, after all "
Live Free or Die!"

More like "Live Free and Die!" There a reason the Commonwealth is a mess at the start of the game and there's no reason to believe it won't be a mess at the end of the game if the Institute or Railroad wins, and I doubt the Minutemen have the strength to get rid of all the threats in the Commonwealth.

[Kameraden]

Brotherhood has basically become the new Enclave on Fallout 4. hehe

[Polantaris]

Originally posted by Rotiart:

Out of all the factions (Other than minutemen) the Brotherhood is the ONLY faction that will help the commonwealth
Sure, the railroad will free synths, but after the Institute is a smoking crater, there wont be much of a problem
Now, the thing about the institute, is if you go their route, and try and be a morally good leader, you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dead, the Institute will likely revolt, considering people went on strike at the mere thought of you becoming leader, if you were to become leader, and go against all the ideals set up by the institute leaders before you, it's all ogre
Now, what I did, is I went with the Minutemen "Peaceful" ending, sparing the railroad and the Brotherhood, and here's why
The Institute live underground, and are almost completely self-sustaining, they could've lived below the surface never noticed, tactically using synths to retrieve salvage, instead they terrorize the commonwealth for no given reason. X6-88 even compares the surface dwellers to maggots, and wants them to be exterminated. The Institute also created Gen III synths, and go on to treat them like slaves, they claim to be men of science but yet can't recognize that they've created sentient life, even after it slaps them in the face.
Now, the Railroad recognizes this, and risks life and limb to give synths a go and a decent life, some synths in turn helping the Railroad (Glory) the only flaw I see in the railroad is the fact that Glory, and some unnamed others believe that Gen Is and IIs need to be freed as well, even though they're essentially toasters.
Now, the Brotherhood has indeed morally fallen since the third game, being more of a hard-ass, and say what you will about them, but they will do a good job to protect the commonwealth, and they don't shoot non-ferals. Sure, you might say that the Minutemen can do a good job protecting the commonwealth, and yes, you might be right, but what happens if the minutemen collapse again? With the Brotherhood there, there is a fall-back faction to keep the peace and make sure that the commonwealth doesn't take two steps back in it's attempt to move forward. It's funny, in the Brotherhood ending you end up as a Paladin or a Sentinel, but still have more effect on the Brotherhood then you, as the Director have on the Institute

The head scientists that revolt when you're declared the new Director of the Institute did it because they don't know you at all. They believed that Shaun made a bad choice because they know nothing about you at all. You pop in one day (by the way, against their will, you basically break in), and Shaun goes, "Hey. Be our leader, cause I'm dying and ♥♥♥♥." Why wouldn't they revolt? As far as they're concerned, you don't have any skill required to lead the Institute AND you're an outsider. To not have a revolt would have upset me more than the fact that there was one.

The Minutemen and the Insitute combined are, in my opinion, the best solution for the Commonwelth.

The Brotherhood of Steel are facists who want to wipe out half of the remaining intelligent life on Earth (Super Mutants, Synths, and all Ghouls). They're also very gun-ho, and will just murder everyone who doesn't immediately bow down to them. The fact that their settlement subquests are literally subjugation of families is insane.

The Railroad are useless in the long term. Their goal is freeing synths by wiping memory (which caused a lot of turmoil when mind wiped synths who didn't know any better were revealed in the public as synths, setting off a mass hysteria). They have no plan for the protection of the Commonwealth. They're literally a symbolization of the Underground Railroad during the Civil War, except there was no Union to back up their operations with a real foundation. It's a ridiculous side to join.

The Minutemen can protect the people, while the Insitute creates a long term survival goal. The Insitute has a lot of change that is definitely required of it. There are extremists, like X6-88, but there are those kinds of people everywhere. The main change that would have to be enacted in a real life situation would be the Insitute to stop treating synths like property, which can be done from the inside with careful manipulation and reasoning, not by showing up and murdering them all. Their resources, used correctly, can do far more good for the world than the BoS or Railroad would ever do.

[Phoenix VII]

Originally posted by Kameraden:

Brotherhood has basically become the new Enclave on Fallout 4. hehe

They want to kill every human being in the Commonwealth? No, they're not. hehe

[⛥ Binli die Schreckliche ⛥]

Originally posted by Phoenix VII:

Originally posted by Dimathiel:

You can call bs all you want, but the planters onboard the Prydwen aren't nearly enough to feed an invading army with no supply chain back to its home base in DC, ergo they are pillaging from the local population. You really believe any farmer who has trouble dealing with raiders would dare say no to a squad of heavily armed and powered troops complete with air support?

Dude, the BoS is downright generous compared to the average foreign army in history considering they'll protect the settlement from all threats and not interfere with their daily lives after the settlement agrees to provide the BoS with food. Methinks you protest too much.

Which is why I always stop to blow those vertibirds out of the sky when they show up, after all "
Live Free or Die!"

More like "Live Free and Die!" There a reason the Commonwealth is a mess at the start of the game and there's no reason to believe it won't be a mess at the end of the game if the Institute or Railroad wins, and I doubt the Minutemen have the strength to get rid of all the threats in the Commonwealth.

This.
A settlement under BoS protection won't need your help. One of the many reasons why I side with the BoS and not with the Minutemen...