How Can You Tell if a Bed Is Sheltered?

[OldFatGuy]

Title says it all...

An example would be Hangman's Alley. Are any (or perhaps all) of the structures that originate there considered "sheltered" when it comes to beds? Because none of them "look" sheltered to me. But then again, most of the houses in Sanctuary looked.... shall we say "holy" to me too. And ALL OF THEM showed wetness inside when it rained. Yet I'm pretty sure all were considered "sheltered" in terms of meeting the requirement for building sheltered beds.

It would be nice if there were some way the game would tell you if the bed you're placing is sheltered or not.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by DarylLicht:

Building beds under a roof does not necessarily make them sheltered. Assigned beds show as sheltered. The Fallout Wiki can fill you in on this.

Edit: not on the wiki, but is on beth forums.

That makes no sense. I have yet to ever use a roof or floor piece that did not count towards sheltering.

What I do know is that you can build a roof over the original beds and they will not count as being sheltered. This is because the original beds are bugged.

[garyp156]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by garyp156:

Bunk beds will always have 1 uncovered because the bottom one doesn't "see" a roof above it.

Bunk beds always count as unsheltered because it is an original bed. If you had read the topic you would know this. Nine out of ten original beds are considered unsheltered, hardly worth the effort of making a mod to figure that out.

As for that brahminshit theory of the "bottom bunk" being considered unsheltered it is exactly that pure brahminshit theory. This is because the number of unsheltered beds does not matter, all it takes is one unsheltered bed to get the -20 target happiness penalty.

I read the topic here, and it said nothing about bunk beds.
Bored Peon, Is there another topic I missed?

I've spend 2 days reloading save games and testing beds at Taffington Boathouse to see once and for all how the game responds because of Bethesda's crappy documentation.

It's a hit or miss, and I'm not sure if it's the mod telling me wrong or the actual game's calculation.
For example I added a floor to the boathouse next to the home to cover the water. I tried 5 times to add beds, and I got 3 out of 5 different calculations for the same building.

Beds seem to need 4 walls and a door, plus a roof. Not another floor above, but a roof tile.
Boxcars count as 4 walls and a door.
The prefabs count ok too.

The Settlement Management Software mod acts as a cheat but it's the only one I found that will tell you how many beds are good and how many are unsheltered. I could have missed a console command too?
It's a pain in the butt to keep reloading the tape in the terminal to give me the calculations.

I play on PC so i have the option of modding my a$$ off.

I added an upper third floor to Taffington Boathouse, and could not figure out why I had 18 beds and 8 uncovered until I added a roof to my second floor.
And the room needs a real door, not an open doorway in the wall.

And after I was finished fixing the roof, I had to scrap all the beds and re-lay them down so the game would recalculate them. That's when I figured out the bunk beds.
I love FO4, almost as much as I did Skyrim, but th settlement's could have beed done so much better.

Edit, sorry Bored Peon. I missed your last post. The original beds are bugged?
That's why when I first replaced the nasty cots with the nicer beds in Crafting Fury 9000 GTX, they worked better. But I had to add the 4 walls and a roof as I said above.

[Panda-Bishop]

You should grab the Settlement Management Softward: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12032/?

Just install the mod, go to each of your settlements to check fo unsheltered beds, make a note of where you find any, do no save, quit the game, uninstall the mod, go back to playing normally.

(Not saying there's anything wrong with the mod itself, but it's worth briefly using it even if you generally don't want to use mods. As long as you don't save the it won't affect your game in any way after you've uninstalled it.)

[Jollyfingers]

Originally posted by Bishop:

You should grab the Settlement Management Softward: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12032/?

Just install the mod, go to each of your settlements to check fo unsheltered beds, make a note of where you find any, do no save, quit the game, uninstall the mod, go back to playing normally.

(Not saying there's anything wrong with the mod itself, but it's worth briefly using it even if you generally don't want to use mods. As long as you don't save the it won't affect your game in any way after you've uninstalled it.)

i so far didn't install it because i feared it might conflict with "better settlers".
anyone running both?

[TJ the HedgeScout]

Build a floor and ceiling for the beds to be sheltered, don't bother with walls though because Pathing AI is not very good and they will try to go through walls instead of using doors. -_- You can walls the settlement area though, just make sure there is nothing blocking their pathing into the settlement.

[Panda-Bishop]

Originally posted by Jollyfingers:

Originally posted by Bishop:

You should grab the Settlement Management Softward: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12032/?

Just install the mod, go to each of your settlements to check fo unsheltered beds, make a note of where you find any, do no save, quit the game, uninstall the mod, go back to playing normally.

(Not saying there's anything wrong with the mod itself, but it's worth briefly using it even if you generally don't want to use mods. As long as you don't save the it won't affect your game in any way after you've uninstalled it.)

i so far didn't install it because i feared it might conflict with "better settlers".
anyone running both?

Settlement Management Software is a bunch of scripts, Better Settlers is just a bunch of new entries in the NPC tables and has no scripts, there's not reason for them to conflict at all.

But like I said, just install the mod, use it to check your settlements, then uninstall the mod and go on with your business. As long as you're not loading a savegame that was created after installing the mod, there will be absolutely no traces left behind to mess up your game.

[garyp156]

Originally posted by Jollyfingers:

Originally posted by Bishop:

You should grab the Settlement Management Softward: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12032/?

Just install the mod, go to each of your settlements to check fo unsheltered beds, make a note of where you find any, do no save, quit the game, uninstall the mod, go back to playing normally.

(Not saying there's anything wrong with the mod itself, but it's worth briefly using it even if you generally don't want to use mods. As long as you don't save the it won't affect your game in any way after you've uninstalled it.)

i so far didn't install it because i feared it might conflict with "better settlers".
anyone running both?

I'm using both and they run nicely together. Thay should not conflict in any way.
You can do something really neat with Settlement Management; it'll show you enemy spawn points in your settlements. Yes, it's a cheat but it's cool to see.

[OldFatGuy]

Well, I still wish someone would offer a possible explanation for why on earth Bethesda would intentionally "sabotage" a feature. As though they're tring to pee us off. And we're the customers???? It makes no sense.

I know some may say "C'mon OFG, the patch was probably done for some other reason and removing our ability to scrap them was a side effect" to which I'll respond with "Okay, but why did they make the beds unscrappable in the first place?" The holding down on the action button to grab them and place them on a rug or floor and scrap the rug or floor vanishing the bed was our workaroun to the fact that the beds were a) marked as unsheltered, thus incurring the -20 happiness penalty and b) the beds were unscrappable in "default" workshop mode.

So they made them in a way that incurs a happiness penalty, THEN they made them so we couldn't scrap them, and THEN they removed our workaround way to scrap them.

If someone could explain why any gaming developer would do something like that I'd appreciate it because I simply can't wrap my head around that list of facts. It makes no sense.

[Bored Peon]

Couple of things.

1. The game does not like you putting anything that can be assigned over water. For example, a store over water and the vendor just says "huh."

2. If you are using building mods that modify pieces then it might be those pieces are not flagging right for providing shelter.

3. Yes there is a console command for sheltered bed detection, that is what the mod uses.

4. Why do you keep figuring walls into sheltered? Only a roof matters.

5. Settlers do not need to path to their beds to use them. That is brahminshit myth.

6. You do not need to scrap/rebuild something for the game to recalculate it, picking it up and moving it has same effect.

[Jollyfingers]

Originally posted by garyp156:

Originally posted by Jollyfingers:

i so far didn't install it because i feared it might conflict with "better settlers".
anyone running both?

I'm using both and they run nicely together. Thay should not conflict in any way.
You can do something really neat with Settlement Management; it'll show you enemy spawn points in your settlements. Yes, it's a cheat but it's cool to see.

yes, nice. :)
but after 1400h in, you know most of them anyway ;)
besides that, i'm running "war of the commonwealth" too, so i can't just protect the known spawnpoints (those roaming patrols could come from everywhere...).


thanks for info, much appreciated, i'll try it today.

[Panda-Bishop]

Originally posted by garyp156:

Originally posted by Jollyfingers:

i so far didn't install it because i feared it might conflict with "better settlers".
anyone running both?

I'm using both and they run nicely together. Thay should not conflict in any way.
You can do something really neat with Settlement Management; it'll show you enemy spawn points in your settlements. Yes, it's a cheat but it's cool to see.

I wouldn't call that a cheat so much as a tool to unearth one of Bethesda's dumber design decisions.

There's no reason why enemy spawn points should be smack dab in the middle of the settlement, it's a stupid decision that invalidates the entire purpose of their junk walls (except, perhaps, to justify calling them junk walls, because that's how much they're worth).

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by OldFatGuy:

Well, I still wish someone would offer a possible explanation for why on earth Bethesda would intentionally "sabotage" a feature. As though they're tring to pee us off. And we're the customers???? It makes no sense.

They are idiots and fixed something that was not a bug over actual bugs.

Notice there was absolutely nothing in any patch notes about fixing it.

[OldFatGuy]

Originally posted by Bishop:

I wouldn't call that a cheat so much as a tool to unearth one of Bethesda's dumber design decisions.

There's no reason why enemy spawn points should be smack dab in the middle of the settlement, it's a stupid decision that invalidates the entire purpose of their junk walls (except, perhaps, to justify calling them junk walls, because that's how much they're worth).

Yes, excellent points. That also makes no sense. Well said.

[OldFatGuy]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Notice there was absolutely nothing in any patch notes about fixing it.

Yes, I noticed that, and that's why I was so surprised when I was developing another settlement like I've done a million times and suddenly discovered that I could no longer scrap the original beds. I was shocked. (For quite some time now, the FIRST thing I would do when getting control of a settlement was to scrap all of the pre-existing beds.

I was gonna just build enough beds so that these beds were unneeded and then manually assign settlers to the beds I had built, but WHOA NELLY what an unbelievalbe PITA that was. No way any reasonalbe person would tolerate that. You would almost literally have to spend your entire play time monitoring settlerment growth, travelling to settlements, finding the new settler amongst the ones that were already there, and then assigning him/her a "good" bed.

Funny thing is though, ever since I've been forced to accept those "bad" beds in my settlements, I've noticed when I mouse over them in workshop mode they always show up with the red icon indicating no one is assigned to them. Yet if i'm there when midnirght strikes and they all go to bed, almost always at least one settler will utilize one of the "bad" beds.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by OldFatGuy:

Yet if i'm there when midnirght strikes and they all go to bed, almost always at least one settler will utilize one of the "bad" beds.

Yep, Abernathy Farm is a great one for that example.

Originally posted by OldFatGuy:

You would almost literally have to spend your entire play time monitoring settlerment growth, travelling to settlements, finding the new settler amongst the ones that were already there, and then assigning him/her a "good" bed.

I did that for a while. Then I learned console commands to verify stuff. Then I learned that you can pretty much ignore a settlement as long as the curret happiness is like 76% or better. Once you know your settlements normal target happiness all you nee dto do is watch for a deviation, then once the deviation occurs you go find out why.

A settlement will stay at the target happiness until a deviation comes along.

1. Rounding off. This is where the settlement has like 83.4 target happiness, so the settlement will bounce between 83% and 84% happiness, on the wya back down to 83% for some dumb reason it displays the triangle.

2. New settler joins. Whenever a new settler is recruited it has 50% happiness and get averaged in causign a drop in current versus target happiness. A new settler always is another person to divide bonus happiness by.

3. Zero data/partial load/double pop bugs. All of these bugs are really obvious in your pipboy. If ignored you can do massive happiness damage to a settlement because your new target happiness can be like 10-20% and will quickly drop.

4. Pending quest. This is where a settlement should be at the target but it is deviates really far for none of the reasons above. If you go visit that settlement they will have a quest for you, once you accetp the quest it goes back to target pending outcome of quest.