In Partial Defense Of Weightless Ammo

[danconnors]

I've panned ammo that has no weight in the past. But last night I did a little research. An assault rifle in the game ends up weighing around 20 pounds. The weight of a US M-16 assault rifle is actually only around 8 pounds. The weight of an M-16 and about 300 rounds of ammo, in clips, IS about 20 pounds.

So, if I leave for "work" with my assault rifle and no more than 300 rounds of ammo, I am still being halfway realistic. However, if I leave with 1,500 rounds, there went realism.

[Bansheebutt]

The Assault Rifle is considerably more bulky than an M16 if you hadn't noticed. I'm not sure why you'd compare the weight.

In keeping with Beth knowing fack-all about Guns, the "Assault Rifle" more closely resembles an LMG, especially with the long barrel and drum magazine mods.

Just googling "LMG" tells me an M249 weighs around 22 pounds when loaded, so that's an interesting coincidence.

[Lora Grim]

It probably has a nuclear reactor built into it.. or there is a hidden nuka cola dispensing hardware inside the gun that's making it heavier. Pre-war fallout people are crazy.

[danconnors]

The average man is not going to be able to fire an M-60 light machine gun from the shoulder. Or, for that matter, anywhere else besides the ground. Maybe John Wayne could have, but few others.

[Imagination]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Cardboard Ox:

Just googling "LMG" tells me an M249 weighs around 22 pounds when loaded, so that's an interesting coincidence.

Not really much of a coincidence. An M249 fully loaded has one magazine. The example the OP gave (M-16 with 300 rounds) is 10 magazines plus the rifle. A fully loaded M-16 magazine weighs about 1.6 lbs. So, rifle (7.18 lbs) + 10 magazines (each at 1.6 lbs) comes out to a little over 23 lbs.

[CloudSeeker]

As people have said. you are comparing apples with oranges.

First off you need to know that in fallout they never invented the transistor and therefore do not got as high efficency on their production as we got with out superior computers and electronics.
Second you need to compare the combat rifle with the M-16 if you want them to be close to each other. Sure they do not use the same ammo but that is quite irrelevant actually.
Third its a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game! You need game balance. A strong gun should not be as easy to carry around as a lesser gun. Real life do not really have that restriction as things like game balance doesn't exist in real life.

Btw have you seen how ridiculous the carry capacity is in this game? My survival character can carry around 560 lbs of equipment, that is 254 kg for the rest of the world. Seriously! How can you just carry around 254 kg while runing a maraton and fighting like its nothing? Its like picking up a 3 meter long steel beam used in constructions and walk away like its nothing..... while picking up a few bags of concrete as well on the way out. I don't think complaining about the ammo and gun weight is good enough if you are going to make a realistic argument when you can carry more then double or even triple of your own weight when a normal human do not carry more then many around 30% of their own body weight in equipment (because if you get more your back breaks and your energy is gone instantly which = no effective solider). So unless your backpack is around 40-70lbs I can't see how its a good argument that ammo weigh to much.

[Yhwach]

Fallout was better off with less ammo distribution, I've been having a blast with my True Wasteland - Item Distribution module where it's more scarce, costs more, and actually weighs properly, and I can tell you this:
I found it more fun when I DIDN'T have enough ammo, knowing too well that I had to use my guns sparingly in this unforgiving wasteland

[Incunabulum]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Scarecrow:

Fallout was better off with less ammo distribution, I've been having a blast with my True Wasteland - Item Distribution module where it's more scarce, costs more, and actually weighs properly, and I can tell you this:
I found it more fun when I DIDN'T have enough ammo, knowing too well that I had to use my guns sparingly in this unforgiving wasteland

I find its nice (though I'm using FO4LO) with limited ammo because you have to *think* about combat encounters - not just rush in.

Is it worth the ammo expense, should I actually use those *melee* weapons (especially in Survival where melee can get you seriously fethed up if you don't spec for it specifically).

The vanilla game is pop pop pop, loot everything, move on.

[Dick Caught In Fan]

the assault rifle is a mix of a m249,fg-42,lewis gun, and japanese anit tank rifle(the stock)

[Liberty Prime]

I totally loath the weapon weights. How does a combat rifle weigh 30 pounds? How does a hunting rifle weigh 17 pounds? I mean by the time you have any of the rifles fully modded it might weigh more than some weapons in the heavy weapon class. I really wouldn't mind an even lower survival carry weight if the items were as light as they should be. Also weapons should still be visible when holstered wtf we had this in almost every other recent Fallout or Elder Scrolls game.

[CloudSeeker]

Oprindeligt skrevet af butters:

I totally loath the weapon weights. How does a combat rifle weigh 30 pounds? How does a hunting rifle weigh 17 pounds? I mean by the time you have any of the rifles fully modded it might weigh more than some weapons in the heavy weapon class. I really wouldn't mind an even lower survival carry weight if the items were as light as they should be. Also weapons should still be visible when holstered wtf we had this in almost every other recent Fallout or Elder Scrolls game.

About that hunting rifle. I did a google search and there I found a solider that said how much weight he had on his backpack. He was about 225 lbs and with about 50 libs of a backpack. That means its 275 lbs in total. So if a M-16 weigh 8 pounds that mean its 2,9% of his weight with the backpack. If I take my survival character with 560 lbs capacity and take 17lbs of that its 3% of my carry capacity. So in comparison the weapons are actually pretty realistic compared to how insane your capacity actually is. 1 lbs in fallout is not the same amount as in real life, its far far far less worth.

[Dick Caught In Fan]

Oprindeligt skrevet af CloudSeeker:

Oprindeligt skrevet af butters:

I totally loath the weapon weights. How does a combat rifle weigh 30 pounds? How does a hunting rifle weigh 17 pounds? I mean by the time you have any of the rifles fully modded it might weigh more than some weapons in the heavy weapon class. I really wouldn't mind an even lower survival carry weight if the items were as light as they should be. Also weapons should still be visible when holstered wtf we had this in almost every other recent Fallout or Elder Scrolls game.

About that hunting rifle. I did a google search and there I found a solider that said how much weight he had on his backpack. He was about 225 lbs and with about 50 libs of a backpack. That means its 275 lbs in total. So if a M-16 weigh 8 pounds that mean its 2,9% of his weight with the backpack. If I take my survival character with 560 lbs capacity and take 17lbs of that its 3% of my carry capacity. So in comparison the weapons are actually pretty realistic compared to how insane your capacity actually is. 1 lbs in fallout is not the same amount as in real life, its far far far less worth.

Um i dont know what soldier you asked but my father had a m-60, 200 rnds and a 150 lb ruck, he weighed 220

[Reverend Belial]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Scarecrow:

Fallout was better off with less ammo distribution, I've been having a blast with my True Wasteland - Item Distribution module where it's more scarce, costs more, and actually weighs properly, and I can tell you this:
I found it more fun when I DIDN'T have enough ammo, knowing too well that I had to use my guns sparingly in this unforgiving wasteland

And see I despise this in games, unless there's a GREAT reason for why things are scarce. It makes sense in settings like Mad Max where trading is minimal and society even more so, but in things like Fallout where thriving cities and even countries have popped up, TONS of people know how to manufacture ammunition, and trade is thriving it would be wrong for them to just be like "nah, there's barely any bullets around".

[Yhwach]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Reverend Belial:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Scarecrow:

Fallout was better off with less ammo distribution, I've been having a blast with my True Wasteland - Item Distribution module where it's more scarce, costs more, and actually weighs properly, and I can tell you this:
I found it more fun when I DIDN'T have enough ammo, knowing too well that I had to use my guns sparingly in this unforgiving wasteland

And see I despise this in games, unless there's a GREAT reason for why things are scarce. It makes sense in settings like Mad Max where trading is minimal and society even more so, but in things like Fallout where thriving cities and even countries have popped up, TONS of people know how to manufacture ammunition, and trade is thriving it would be wrong for them to just be like "nah, there's barely any bullets around".

The thing is, Fallout 3 and kind of New Vegas handled it well, not giving the player a ton of ammo so that they never run out of it, instead, only gave them enough and encouraged them to actually explore the game, and since caps were worth a bit more in Fallout 3, you were less likely to buy ammo unless you were constantly loot whoring the entire game, or saved up after quite a few hours.
It's not that there should be "Barely" any, there should only be enough so that the player has, not a consistent flow, but enough to make them actually "want" to find ammo.

[CloudSeeker]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Milkman Of Human Kindness:

Um i dont know what soldier you asked but my father had a m-60, 200 rnds and a 150 lb ruck, he weighed 220

The ammo is about 0,388lbs / round. 200 rounds is about 77,6 lbs
M-60 = 23,15lbs
Packback = 150lbs
Total: 77,6 + 23,15 + 150 = 250,75 lbs
Total + own body weight: 250,75 + 220 = 470
Are you telling me he carried himself and more above his own body wieght. I think you are lying or your father is telling tall tails or exaggerate a lot. You never take that much in your backpack. Soliders do not actually have much weight in their backpacks because they should waste energy fighting the enemy and not fighting the equipment.

[Reverend Belial]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Scarecrow:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Reverend Belial:

And see I despise this in games, unless there's a GREAT reason for why things are scarce. It makes sense in settings like Mad Max where trading is minimal and society even more so, but in things like Fallout where thriving cities and even countries have popped up, TONS of people know how to manufacture ammunition, and trade is thriving it would be wrong for them to just be like "nah, there's barely any bullets around".

The thing is, Fallout 3 and kind of New Vegas handled it well, not giving the player a ton of ammo so that they never run out of it, instead, only gave them enough and encouraged them to actually explore the game, and since caps were worth a bit more in Fallout 3, you were less likely to buy ammo unless you were constantly loot whoring the entire game, or saved up after quite a few hours.
It's not that there should be "Barely" any, there should only be enough so that the player has, not a consistent flow, but enough to make them actually "want" to find ammo.

I'm not sure that we we're playing the same games because I was positively drowning in ammo in 3 and NV and most of the guns I use in 4 barely crest the 500 round mark most of the time. And I guess I shouldn't have said "barely", but most people I see who bring up the ammo discussion talk about it like finding ammunition should be like finding military rounds in Metro where you only get small handfuls at absurdly long intervals and that shooting is a luxury we should barely be able to afford.