Vault Building Mistake

[Panda-Bishop]

I imagine there are a few people who, like myself, want a really tall atrium like this:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=745553495
Word of adivce: make sure the third floor and beyond have stairs connecting them to the second floor, because the pathfinding AI refuses to recognize the third floor of the atrium and makes it essentially wasted space.

Worse yet, if you have anything on the third floor that can only be accessed via the atrium, a settler can teleport to it, but once they're there they'll be stuck there, unable to return to ther job/bed/restaurant. They can't even teleport for some reason and the pathing AI freaking out will cause all other scripts to bog down.

[The Raving Dragon]

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/15608/?

will fix that for you

[Panda-Bishop]

Sadly that mod doesn't actually address the problem, because it's not that the NPC's can't "see" things on the third floor (they do, I had a gym there and they would teleport into it to use the equipment, but once they were there they'd be trapped because the atrium walkway was the only way out), it's that for some reason the "Atrium Hanging Floor" behaves like it has no nav mesh at all at that level.

Or maybe it doesn't have a nav mesh at any level, I'll need to test that.

Edit: replaced all the third floor hanging floor tiles with regular floor tiles, which definitely have a nav mesh, and NPCs still refuse to path onto it to return to their jobs if they're moved to one of the rooms up there. They will immediately escape if I connect the third floor to the second floor via a U-shaped stairwell though. Time to start redesigning that wing of the vault again.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

I think I dodged this issue with my vault somehow. I don't have a Third floor with usable assets, but I do have a third-floor access path (The only one) to the Overseer's office, which descends back to the 2nd floor. Overseer Barstow and the Security guard use the 3rd floor catwalk just fine, and I'm actually a little (too) proud of it.

I find that most of the Pathfinding AI issues arise from the use of certain Doorways. Particularly Doorway Endcaps. Like, I can attach 2 door modules fine, but never a doorway endcap with another door module. However, a Doorway Endcap and a standard module seems to work fine.

[WarMachine]

I have no issues with the third floor, or the fourth. My settlers like to pool where ever the most lights are set up for me.

[Panda-Bishop]

Originally posted by Hobo Misanthropus:

I think I dodged this issue with my vault somehow. I don't have a Third floor with usable assets, but I do have a third-floor access path (The only one) to the Overseer's office, which descends back to the 2nd floor. Overseer Barstow and the Security guard use the 3rd floor catwalk just fine, and I'm actually a little (too) proud of it.

I find that most of the Pathfinding AI issues arise from the use of certain Doorways. Particularly Doorway Endcaps. Like, I can attach 2 door modules fine, but never a doorway endcap with another door module. However, a Doorway Endcap and a standard module seems to work fine.

In my case it doesn't have anything to do with doorways, I've been testing by moving NPCs to the bridge you see spanning across the atrium and, despite there being two perfectly usable stairs at the far end, they will stand there until the end of time. Does your catwalk to the overseer's office go underneath the low points of the atrium wall, or is it a bridge that runs straight down the middle, idly?

Originally posted by WarMachine:

I have no issues with the third floor, or the fourth. My settlers like to pool where ever the most lights are set up for me.

I think you may be misunderstanding, because it's impossible to have a fourth atrium floor.

I'm not saying everything from the third floor and up is unusable (residential wing is 5 floors, NPCs go up and down that with no problems, but that's because they use the U-shaped stairwell in the back), I'm saying that specifically the walkway built inside the third floor of the atrium loses its nav mesh somehow, thus rendering it impossible for NPCs to go to rooms on the third floor if they're only accessible via the atrium.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Originally posted by Bishop:

Originally posted by Hobo Misanthropus:

I think I dodged this issue with my vault somehow. I don't have a Third floor with usable assets, but I do have a third-floor access path (The only one) to the Overseer's office, which descends back to the 2nd floor. Overseer Barstow and the Security guard use the 3rd floor catwalk just fine, and I'm actually a little (too) proud of it.

I find that most of the Pathfinding AI issues arise from the use of certain Doorways. Particularly Doorway Endcaps. Like, I can attach 2 door modules fine, but never a doorway endcap with another door module. However, a Doorway Endcap and a standard module seems to work fine.

In my case it doesn't have anything to do with doorways, I've been testing by moving NPCs to the bridge you see spanning across the atrium and, despite there being two perfectly usable stairs at the far end, they will stand there until the end of time. Does your catwalk to the overseer's office go underneath the low points of the atrium wall, or is it a bridge that runs straight down the middle, idly?

I'll fire the game up and give you a screenshot of it. I have a youtube tour of it, but I don't like pimping my channel.

[WarMachine]

Originally posted by Bishop:

Originally posted by Hobo Misanthropus:

I think I dodged this issue with my vault somehow. I don't have a Third floor with usable assets, but I do have a third-floor access path (The only one) to the Overseer's office, which descends back to the 2nd floor. Overseer Barstow and the Security guard use the 3rd floor catwalk just fine, and I'm actually a little (too) proud of it.

I find that most of the Pathfinding AI issues arise from the use of certain Doorways. Particularly Doorway Endcaps. Like, I can attach 2 door modules fine, but never a doorway endcap with another door module. However, a Doorway Endcap and a standard module seems to work fine.

In my case it doesn't have anything to do with doorways, I've been testing by moving NPCs to the bridge you see spanning across the atrium and, despite there being two perfectly usable stairs at the far end, they will stand there until the end of time. Does your catwalk to the overseer's office go underneath the low points of the atrium wall, or is it a bridge that runs straight down the middle, idly?

Originally posted by WarMachine:

I have no issues with the third floor, or the fourth. My settlers like to pool where ever the most lights are set up for me.

I think you may be misunderstanding, because it's impossible to have a fourth atrium floor.

Not if you don't use roof arches. My atrium is 4 stories, my vault is like an inverted building. There are other atrium roof tiles.

[Panda-Bishop]

Originally posted by WarMachine:

Not if you don't use roof arches. My atrium is 4 stories, my vault is like an inverted building. There are other atrium roof tiles.

Ah, so you don't use the fancy roof tiles. Maybe something about those interfere with the pathing, hrm.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

I got 3 screenshots coming. My Atrium is quite small, inspired a bit by Vault 95's layout.

Here's Floor 1:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=745825400

Floor 2

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=745825502

Floor 3 Catwalk
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=745825624

Like I said, the NPCs have no trouble using my catwalk, though they did when I first built it with doorway modules. They would (Like you describe) just stop and sit in place.

[Panda-Bishop]

Originally posted by Hobo Misanthropus:

I got 3 screenshots coming. My Atrium is quite small, inspired a bit by Vault 95's layout.

Ahh, yes, so the third floor walkway does go down the middle, but I assume the NPCs have no trouble pathing through the second floor walkways around the edge as well, correct?

Starting to get a better picture of what's bugging out then, time to head back in to test.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Originally posted by Bishop:

Originally posted by Hobo Misanthropus:

I got 3 screenshots coming. My Atrium is quite small, inspired a bit by Vault 95's layout.

Ahh, yes, so the third floor walkway does go down the middle, but I assume the NPCs have no trouble pathing through the second floor walkways around the edge as well, correct?

Starting to get a better picture of what's bugging out then, time to head back in to test.

Yeah, they use the 2nd floor without issue. Well, sometimes they stop for a few seconds, but then continue on their way. I think that's more related to other NPCs blocking the path, or using an item they wanted (most notably slot machines, I have lines for the Slot Machines...)

[Panda-Bishop]

Well, that was a swing and a miss. I scrapped all of the roof pieces, relocated those stairs at the far end so they don't hug the wall, and dropped an NPC on the bridge to see if he'll path back to whatever he was doing on the first floor.

Nope. Despite all that, despite the bridge leading straight into the residential wing (with just one atrium ceiling & floor tile between the bridge and the doorway), the NPC is trapped on the bridge.

I feel like I'm playing the Sims again, except without the satisfaction of seeing them actually starve to death because they can't find the way out.

[JH]

Originally posted by Bishop:

In my case it doesn't have anything to do with doorways, I've been testing by moving NPCs to the bridge you see spanning across the atrium and, despite there being two perfectly usable stairs at the far end, they will stand there until the end of time.

My settlers seem very attracted to a high midpoint in the atrium cavern. I had a bridge like yours and they all huddled up half way across. I removed the bridge and watched the hilarious sight of them walking back up around then falling off the walkway trying to get back on the missing bridge.

Then I built some rooms outside and above the atrium and they totally loved that, all crowding in the corner nearest the middle point of the cavern.

[mfree]

My V88 mega-build has 6 floors on 7 stories, and has three stacked stairwells serving 5 of those floors. Settlers have been seen freely roaming all floors on their off hours with no observed pathing issues; nobody's been on the 6'th floor (above the girders) probably only because there's nothing up there yet.

The only path issues I've seen have to do with misalignments between sections where one door is slightly off vertically from another one. They'll resolutely refuse to transit that doorway until it's aligned, then they have no problems at all.

That slight vertical misalignment seems to come from starting a floor off with an atrium floor panel on a stairwell, without an atrium door section between them.

[Panda-Bishop]

Originally posted by JH:

My settlers seem very attracted to a high midpoint in the atrium cavern. I had a bridge like yours and they all huddled up half way across. I removed the bridge and watched the hilarious sight of them walking back up around then falling off the walkway trying to get back on the missing bridge.

Then I built some rooms outside and above the atrium and they totally loved that, all crowding in the corner nearest the middle point of the cavern.

Ever since I shaved a floor off my atrium I haven't had too many pathing issues... except for one really weird one: every now and then all of my settlers will decide that they need to head to some unknown destination outside the vault, so they'll just march to the vault door (even if it's closed) and pool in the little trench under it. Had to build a bell to lure them back in, after which they'll resume their usual activities.

I tried using player.moveto to teleport to one of the settlers that did manage to escape and wound up in front of the Castle, but couldn't find the settler anywhere near there.

Originally posted by mfree:

My V88 mega-build has 6 floors on 7 stories, and has three stacked stairwells serving 5 of those floors. Settlers have been seen freely roaming all floors on their off hours with no observed pathing issues; nobody's been on the 6'th floor (above the girders) probably only because there's nothing up there yet.

I noticed you have a police station up on the third floor and it looks like you can only get to it through the atrium, do the settlers have any problems pathing to there if you order them to?