Rifleman or Cammando

[paneth48]

Gonna start a new build just using shotguns and explosives. Gonna make it tank (without PA I hate PA interface). So the question is would it be better to go Rifleman or Commando? I can swing it either way really just more intrested to hear what you people think who have done this kind of build.

[Tavman (4)]

Up to you. If you like convenience since it's in the same perk column, Rifleman but Commando is just as good especially if you have a wounding/explosive automatic gun.

[Rez Elwin]

Well early shotguns are all semi-auto so rifleman would be better earlier. Myself...well automatic weapons seem underpowered imo, so I'd go rifleman and if you are lucky you could get an exsplosive shotgun working off both talents.

[The Infamous Cloaker]

Rifleman = Gunslinger > Commando

[paneth48]

Originally posted by Rez Elwin:

Well early shotguns are all semi-auto so rifleman would be better earlier. Myself...well automatic weapons seem underpowered imo, so I'd go rifleman and if you are lucky you could get an exsplosive shotgun working off both talents.

Fairly sure they don't stack with each other, though i think the explosive perk may with either commando or rifleman if the gun is explosive. Automatic explosive might be hella brutal though..

[Doombringer]

Rifleman is better for sneak attacks and crit hits due to higher damage per shot. It also wastes less ammo.

[Sentient_Toaster]

Correct, they don't stack. The Rifleman perk specifically checks that the weapon not only is flagged as a rifle, but also that it's not automatic.

Demolitions Expert does stack, but not really with Rifleman or Commando. Heavy weapons are different, because Heavy Weapons Expert does boost explosive damage as well (as otherwise it wouldn't be very useful on missile launchers and Fat Men).

[DaemosDaen]

Originally posted by paneth48:

Fairly sure they don't stack with each other, though i think the explosive perk may with either commando or rifleman if the gun is explosive. Automatic explosive might be hella brutal though..

Explosives perk applies to the explosive effect.

As to the question, it depends on playstyle, but you may have issue with ammo going down the automatic/command rout untill you get a few of the perks that get you more ammo, but it has higher overall DPS.

The rifelman side of things does not have as much of an issue with ammo, but actually has lower overall DPS.

[WC4L420]

In my opinion, your best bet is to go with non automatic rifles.

But if you can get Spray and pray early and just use that, then I'd say you would be alright doing an automatic build.

But the general concensus is that higher damage weapons ignore more damage resistance then lower damage weapons.

Unless it has the explosive effect and is automatic. Then it's just a one way ticket to hell for every enemy.

[Doombringer]

Heavy Weapons works just like other weapon type perks, there just aren't really non-heavy weapons that do explosive damage.
Rifleman/Gunslinger/Commando perks will buff the explosive damage of a legendary explosive weapon.

[Sentient_Toaster]

Originally posted by Doombringer:

Heavy Weapons works just like other weapon type perks, there just aren't really non-heavy weapons that do explosive damage.
Rifleman/Gunslinger/Commando perks will buff the explosive damage of a legendary explosive weapon.

HWE specifically has an effect which applies "Mod Player Explosion Damage" in addition to an effect which applies "Mod Weapon Attack Damage". Gunslinger, Commando and Rifleman don't have "Mod Player Explosion Damage".

[ARmodder]

Rifleman for sure, semi-autos are generally better when it comes to damage and accuracy and you can get multiple shots off quite quickly so having the Commando perk never made much sense to me, plus if your planning on a survival playthrough rifleman perk is a must if your going to be using semi-auto long guns, autos will burn through too much ammo and you have to carry more ammo for them, so weight really comes into play here.

[Dimathiel]

Other than the ammo issue early on, commando can be fun and versatile. Auto 10mm which becomes my backup weapon when I get an assault rifle or combat shotgun. Plus explosive auto combat shotgun is too OP not to be fun.

[Doombringer]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

Originally posted by Doombringer:

Heavy Weapons works just like other weapon type perks, there just aren't really non-heavy weapons that do explosive damage.
Rifleman/Gunslinger/Commando perks will buff the explosive damage of a legendary explosive weapon.

HWE specifically has an effect which applies "Mod Player Explosion Damage" in addition to an effect which applies "Mod Weapon Attack Damage". Gunslinger, Commando and Rifleman don't have "Mod Player Explosion Damage".

Fun fact, both of those affect explosive damage - test for your self :)

Here - I just did, normal mode 0 armor, shooting the ground with a mini-nuke:
No magazine perks, companion perks, bobbleheads, etc.

List Damage (no perk) is 468 - 18 impact (if hit with the bomb), 450 explosion <-- this is the only part that will do splash damage

Damage taken (no perk): 450
Damage taken (heavy gunner 1): 648 <-- this is 1.44x without a perk, or normal damage x 1.2 x 1.2...
Damage taken (heavy gunner 5): 1800 <-- this is 4x without a perk, or normal x 2.0 x 2.0
[Note that the damage in pip boy is 936 --> 36 impact + 900 explosion, it actually does 1800...]

[Mobius942]

Im going to actually suggest commando for a shotgun character, the benefits commando gives are actually very usefull for shotguns IMO.

For straters it increases the hipfire accuracy by 20%, combine this with the steady aim perk for a total of 60% increase to hipfire accuracy. As a shotgun user i dont think you will be using your sights very often so having a good hipfire accuracy will help alot.

Also there is the stagger change with commando, which with a regualr automatic weapon isint very noticable, but with a shotgun that shoots 7-8 pellets per shot and with a 6% per pellet chance to stagger, your looking at a 36%-40% change per pull of the trigger to stagger your opponent. This can be a life saver in some situations as a shotgun user as you are typically going to be getting close to some deadly melee enemies and being able to stop them in their tracks at a very reliable rate will be very handy.

Iv also noticed with shotguns modded for automatic use have a very magangeable rate of fire and can be used like a semi auto to save on ammo.

[Doombringer]

Well, if you want to 1shot stuff and rarely have it live long enough to shoot back --> rifle.
If you want to play rambo and brrrt stuff in the face --> auto.

If you aren't playing survival then the game is easy enough once you get to level ~20 that basically anything is viable...