Explosive Vs. Wounding, the math : Survival edition

[Casper]

So.. having just been fortunate enough to come across a wounding laser rifle in survival I've asked myself, in a mode where ammunition is weighted and everyone is dying quicker. which would be better/the most practical? An explosive shotgun or a wounding auto scattergun?

So I went ahead and math'd the stats of the effects. excluding the base damage (as that scales how you build)

Disclaimer:
- weights etc are subject to change and are always approximate, therefore the results of the following calculations are only meant to be considered generally.
- If any info is wrong, ie. Pellet number etc please mention it and I’ll update the calculations.

The damage per pound calculation includes weight of weapon because weight counts more than ever as an important resource to the player in survival mode, seeing as the more room you have to store supplies and loot generally the better off you are, therefore a lighter weapon is more resourceful in weight, except usually this is balanced with lower damage.
In my opinion the best weapons in survival need the best balance between damage and efficiency, for example while an explosive Gatling gun will destroy almost anything instantly the weight of weapon and ammunition make it highly impractical.

(if you want to skip the math, discussion is 3rd paragraph from the bottom)

One of the few stats unmentioned in the profiles that relates to resourcefulness is price of ammunition, which I feel is balanced. While shells might be cheaper from vendors cells are arguably more commonly found around the wasteland.
So here’s the math.

Explosive Combat Shotgun:

Accuracy/range: inferior (55:41)
Weight (modded): 22 pounds
Projectiles per .100p (1 shell): 8
Projectile effect damage: 30 (demo expert 4)
Projectile effect damage per ammo: (seen below)
Effect Damage per .100p of ammo: 30 X 8 X 3* (estimated body parts hit by each pellet): 720
Effect Damage per pound (weapon = damage per pound of ammo [.1 X 10] / weapon weight): 327.27
Attributes: Each projectile can 'hit' (inflict 30 damage) multiple body parts as well as multiple targets. Close proximity can harm/kill the player and cripple limbs, requiring healing with stim packs and optionally water. Also, full effectiveness requires perception 5 and 4 perk points in demolition expert.
IN VATS: my level 92 (not really lacking in AP) gets 4 shots of this (1 shell per shot) per bar of AP
Effect damage per AP bar (damage per ammo X ammo used per AP bar): 720 X 4 = 2880

Wounding auto Laser Scattergun:

Accuracy/range: superior (50:179)
Weight (modded): 7.3 pounds
Projectiles per .100p (3.57 fusion cells): 17.85
Projectile effect damage: 25 (no perks required)
Projectile effect damage per ammo (1 fusion cell): 25 X 5 = 125
Effect Damage per .100p of ammo (17.85 X 25) = 446.25
Effect Damage per pound (weapon = damage per pound of ammo [.1 X 10] / weapon weight): 611.3
Attributes: Bleed damage is dealt over time rather than on impact. Has no risk of harming the player.
IN VATS: 5 shots (3 ammo per ‘shot’ being automatic) per bar of AP = 15 ammo per AP bar
Effect damage per AP bar (damage per ammo X ammo used per AP bar): 125 X 15 = 1,857

What we can determine from the calculations is this:
The exploding combat shotgun does more damage in the time is would take to kill an enemy, hands down. (barely anything has health able to withstand 2880 damage per vats encounter before weapon damage)
However, it would appear that the wounding auto laser is almost twice as efficient in its dispersion of damage to weight, making it more weight efficient.
So we have one more set of calculations left, comparing and contrasting the two

Weapon Effect damage per AP bar: 2880/1857 = 1.55. the exploding combat shotgun does 1.6X (rounded) more damage
Weight-Effect damage efficiency: 611.3/327 = 1.86. The wounding laser is 1.9X (rounded) more weight efficient.

When comparing how much better they are in their respective strengths (1.6 vs 1.9) the wounding laser comes out in the lead by a small margin.
I would say however that since the numbers are subject to change this margin is too close to determine a clear victor, meaning that at the end of the day it comes down to taste.
Personally I prefer to be weight efficient but that’s me. In attributes as well, the risk of killing yourself with the explosive effect seems high for survival, where saving is a much rarer occurrence.

Which would you prefer?

[Vinnie Mack]

both sound over powered. So i will pass.

[The Infamous Cloaker]

Ammo weight is lower on the laser weapons, that is why I'd use that. But explosives can be buffed though

[Tavman (4)]

Do you have the Demolition Expert perk? If yes then the Explosive legendary effect is actually quite good however you do have to keep some distance away from the target.

If not, the Explosive legendary effect is still good but the Wounding effect is better.

I say you can never really fail with the Wounding effect but the Explosive effect is great as long as you take some precautions.

[Claybot]

Explosive can have a negative effect if you are too close to what your are shooting at. Tend to blow yourself up.

Where as wounding will never have that effect

[Casper]

Messaggio originale di Tavman (4):

Do you have the Demolition Expert perk? If yes then the Explosive legendary effect is actually quite good however you do have to keep some distance away from the target.

If not, the Explosive legendary effect is still good but the Wounding effect is better.

I say you can never really fail with the Wounding effect but the Explosive effect is great as long as you take some precautions.

'full effectiveness requires perception 5 and 4 perk points in demolition expert.' It's in the post.

[Casper]

Messaggio originale di Claybot:

Explosive can have a negative effect if you are too close to what your are shooting at. Tend to blow yourself up.

Where as wounding will never have that effect

' Close proximity can harm the player and cripple limbs, requiring healing with stim packs and optionally water. ' also in the post

[Tavman (4)]

Messaggio originale di iknowright1996:

Messaggio originale di Tavman (4):

Do you have the Demolition Expert perk? If yes then the Explosive legendary effect is actually quite good however you do have to keep some distance away from the target.

If not, the Explosive legendary effect is still good but the Wounding effect is better.

I say you can never really fail with the Wounding effect but the Explosive effect is great as long as you take some precautions.

'full effectiveness requires perception 5 and 4 perk points in demolition expert.' It's in the post.

I saw that but it got a bit of TL;DR but either way my advice still stands. Explosive is great but you cannot fail with Wounding.

[Tavman (4)]

Messaggio originale di iknowright1996:

Messaggio originale di Claybot:

Explosive can have a negative effect if you are too close to what your are shooting at. Tend to blow yourself up.

Where as wounding will never have that effect

' Close proximity can harm the player and cripple limbs, requiring healing with stim packs and optionally water. ' also in the post

It can also kill yourself especially in Survival.

[Casper]

Messaggio originale di Tavman (4):

Messaggio originale di iknowright1996:

'full effectiveness requires perception 5 and 4 perk points in demolition expert.' It's in the post.

I saw that but it got a bit of TL;DR but either way my advice still stands. Explosive is great but you cannot fail with Wounding.

I guess I'll edit in a - skip to the end - note

[kill20]

I would go for explosive, it requires less aiming to do full damage.

[CerebralAtrophy]

I want stuff dead the fastest way possible so explosive between the two, but I don't use either. I like double shot, vats reduction, and every other effect bonus better.

After you get deeper pockets and strong back weight isnt a factor to me anymore, and usually by the time you get these weapons if you build like me you are able to have both.

[terryt3535]

Depends on your play style. Two shot scoped Assault Rifle with full Commando, Ninja, Stealth, etc. does a LOT of damage. The huge benefit from explosive (with all the perks/skills) is that you can shoot the floor just inside a door jamb and kill a hiding supermutie without ever seeing them. With explosive, I just use vats to aim at their legs, then back out and fire at their feet. A shotgun requires getting a little closer for all the pellets to hit. It might look better on paper because there are more pellets per weight than other guns, but you can't snipe with it.

[Doombringer]

Your math is off, explosive legendary mod benefits from gun type damage perks (rifleman for shotgun), bloody mess, demolitions, and gun & ammo magazine perks ;)
Yes, I have tested this extensively.

A point blank headshot with explosive shotgun does 1492.125 damage (vs target with 0 armor) with all perks maxed (rifleman, guns&ammo, bloody mess, demolitions)

A miss with an explosive shotgun can do 991.875 damage...

Nothing increases bleeding damage.

If you are using VATS extensively, use reflex sights to reduce AP costs.

[Casper]

Messaggio originale di Doombringer:

Your math is off, explosive legendary mod benefits from gun type damage perks (rifleman for shotgun), bloody mess, demolitions, and gun & ammo magazine perks ;)
Yes, I have tested this extensively.

A point blank headshot with explosive shotgun does 1492.125 damage (vs target with 0 armor) with all perks maxed (rifleman, guns&ammo, bloody mess, demolitions)

A miss with an explosive shotgun can do 991.875 damage...

Nothing increases bleeding damage.

' excluding the base damage (as that scales how you build)' in every calculation I'm stressing the effect damage alone, not the weapon damage outside of the effect..
It would be off if I didn't add that part in there but the question I'm asking is which legendary effect is better.. the weapon only matters because of explosive being limited to ballistic guns

[Doombringer]

Messaggio originale di iknowright1996:

Messaggio originale di Doombringer:

Your math is off, explosive legendary mod benefits from gun type damage perks (rifleman for shotgun), bloody mess, demolitions, and gun & ammo magazine perks ;)
Yes, I have tested this extensively.

A point blank headshot with explosive shotgun does 1492.125 damage (vs target with 0 armor) with all perks maxed (rifleman, guns&ammo, bloody mess, demolitions)

A miss with an explosive shotgun can do 991.875 damage...

Nothing increases bleeding damage.

' excluding the base damage (as that scales how you build)' in every calculation I'm stressing the effect damage alone, not the weapon damage outside of the effect

Yes, and the effect damage of explosive on an advanced combat shotgun is 991.875 per shot when maxed out...

Bleeding is only 200/shot on advanced combat shotgun, 125/shot on scatter laser.
...and you actually have to hit your target (instead of hitting within 100/200units (full damage/partial damage)).

Also it looks like you are using a silencer on combat shotgun... if it has explosive mod don't do that - 41 range is garbage. (can't even do full damage across a medium sized room)