Super Mutants too OP late game?

[Myta]

So I'm about LV20 on my current play through and I have seen Super Mutants spawning with Mini-guns and Semi-Auto rocket launchers that deal massive DMG,being hard to kill is one thing but this here seems kinda ridiculous

[Iozeph]

Supermutants aren't difficult on their own. Not out in the wilds. Where the level scaling becomes a problem is with settlement attacks.

They won't do much harm to your character- well, they will, having four-to five of them with multibarrel missile launchers, and grenades all targetting you is a recipe for insta-gibbing. The level of destruction they bring to just about any settlement with multiple missile launchers, grenades, and miniguns is a major annoyance though. Even assuming you have all the settlement perks so that you've got nuke reactors to power the many auotmated missile turrets you'll want They're not much help.

All it takes is for a well placed salvo and turrets still go poof. And yes, whilst most of your settlers will be protected(watch your own missiles, grenades, and explosive weaponry as well as melee if you've taken 'Big Leagues') you'll find and regret over and over that the furniture isn't.

I've often found that the best defence for a late game supermutant attack is to not use the Fat-Man at all during the playthrough. Keep stockpiling mini-nukes. Then assuming you've been saving your caps, buy Arturo's Fat-Man in Diamond City. Then mod it into a MIRV. Build high, confusing walls around your settlements and when you get the call grab the launcher, find a high vantage point and let them and their glowing dogs have it.

[Chop]

Eh? I'm mowing down Super Mutant Overlords and Masters at lvl 71 right now. Just get Toughness, Refractor, weapon damage perk of your choice and decent armor, you'll be fine :P

[ImSexyAndiNOED]

Originally posted by Chop:

Eh? I'm mowing down Super Mutant Overlords and Masters at lvl 71 right now. Just get Toughness, Refractor, weapon damage perk of your choice and decent armor, you'll be fine :P

How is he supposed to get all that? He finished the game at lvl 24.
He was late game at lvl 20.

[Kalsu]

Get some luck perks with crit banker and raise your crit dmg. Rest is a matter of scouting the area before engaging and running from cover to cover. You're not a walking tank at lvl 20.

[Brucien]

Originally posted by Wolforian:

Originally posted by SpeedFreak1972:

I call level 20 not late game ... I mean late game is level 60 or so

The story ended at level 24 for me, so ye, level 20 is late game. level 60 is post game fun.

It all depends on how you play, if you do nothing other than MSQ, then yea, level 20 can be late game. If you do everything other than MSQ, than youll be like me and go to the institute for the first time at level 64.

If you power through main story, expect enemies to be hard. This is true for any game/RPG, and isnt worth making a post about.

[Rizzly]

Originally posted by skywalkr_00:

Originally posted by Chop:

Eh? I'm mowing down Super Mutant Overlords and Masters at lvl 71 right now. Just get Toughness, Refractor, weapon damage perk of your choice and decent armor, you'll be fine :P

How is he supposed to get all that? He finished the game at lvl 24.
He was late game at lvl 20.

Not only that, but those two perks he mentioned don't do jacks*** vs a lvl 70 super mutant

[Kapy]

I'm level 103 with final judgment and a maxed out X01 power armor and i'm pretty much immortal while destroying super mutants like butter... So I doubt they are Op... maybe at level 200-300 when they'll die slower than an ancient behemonth :D

[Applesmacked]

End game at level 20, this guy must be playing on ps4

[lockwoodx]

First playthrough was a combat build and everything I encountered was Tier 3.
Second playthrough I've taken nothing but fluff and at lvl 47 most things are still Tier 1. Super Mutants use pipe weapons. Raiders/Gunners are just beginning to use a piece or two of sturdy armor. Wild life is basic.

You see it's more based on perks than level. Say you never take local leader, your settlements don't get attacked. Same goes for stacking weapon and damage perks. If you stick with just the money making / utility ones the game stays pretty tame. That's been my observation.

[Kapy]

Originally posted by lockwoodx:

First playthrough was a combat build and everything I encountered was Tier 3.
Second playthrough I've taken nothing but fluff and at lvl 47 most things are still Tier 1. Super Mutants use pipe weapons. Raiders/Gunners are just beginning to use a piece or two of sturdy armor. Wild life is basic.

You see it's more based on perks than level. Say you never take local leader, your settlements don't get attacked. Same goes for stacking weapon and damage perks. If you stick with just the money making / utility ones the game stays pretty tame. That's been my observation.

Got all combat perks, my super mutant warlords are still with piper guns and sledge hammers... level 105 and climbing >.>

[KoalafiedKiller]

Super mutants are just ridiculously tanky but not particularly dangerous. The suiciders are the easiest, just shoot them in the right arm once and they explode.

I'm level 75 and a critical head shot with maxed rifleman, maxed better criticals, calibrated lucky combat rifle (4x crit damage), and psycho will barely put a dent in a super mutant primus' health bar.

As a frame of reference, I'm level 75 and I only just did the quest where you find and kill the courser for his chip. So the idea of level 20 being end game is mind boggling to me.

[Wolförian Garmdomia]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Sadness is mine, for discussion has moved on somewhat while I was otherwise occupied. But I'll answer anyway, since it's still the topic.

Originally posted by Wolforian:

So you have no definition of late game because the game ends whenever.

It means that for a game like Fallout 4 (where there's no definitive "game over" other than dying) it's potentially variable, and any sort of general definition will depend on what players usually do, rather than a set standard common to everyone.

"Late game" for Fallout 4 therefore depends on how people typically play. I would assume that people frequently play more than just the main story, so the definition of late game instead depends on their total experience of the game for a given character, and late game levels are just the highest levels they commonly reach by the end. Some people may progress through the main story relatively early, while some will do so later.

I had to sleep, but this isn't a chat room, so here's a topic healthy reply.

I think I understand your view(Just because I end the game at one point doesn't mean it's game over for someone else). I still disagree, as the end of FO4 is pretty much "war never changes" and everything past that is just for fun, not for story.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Wolforian:

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Sadness is mine, for discussion has moved on somewhat while I was otherwise occupied. But I'll answer anyway, since it's still the topic.

It means that for a game like Fallout 4 (where there's no definitive "game over" other than dying) it's potentially variable, and any sort of general definition will depend on what players usually do, rather than a set standard common to everyone.

"Late game" for Fallout 4 therefore depends on how people typically play. I would assume that people frequently play more than just the main story, so the definition of late game instead depends on their total experience of the game for a given character, and late game levels are just the highest levels they commonly reach by the end. Some people may progress through the main story relatively early, while some will do so later.

I had to sleep, but this isn't a chat room, so here's a topic healthy reply.

I think I understand your view(Just because I end the game at one point doesn't mean it's game over for someone else). I still disagree, as the end of FO4 is pretty much "war never changes" and everything past that is just for fun, not for story.

That's what I mean in part, but you have to keep in mind that the combination of the main story and all the other material and stories isn't in a set sequence, so it's not so much what's *past* it, as what you play in addition to it, which may be before, during, or after it. For some, it may even be instead of it (though I assume playing through the main story is typical), since story doesn't belong to the main questline alone, and the entire game is played for fun.

Even if you try to avoid all but the main questline (deliberately eschewing any sidequests you encounter), there's inevitably variation in what you run into along the way, both in the exact choices and in the incidental material. Does the main story involve meeting Dogmeat or passing him by? Does it involve fast travel between all possible locations or walking between them to save overall game time? What happened to be along the particular path you took through the wasteland? Is the settlement you get sent to for a main story quest a nearby one, or halfway across the Commonwealth, and what did handling it involve? Which faction should you hold above the others? Is the main story covered in a regular difficulty or survival mode?

The main quest is great for those who want to achieve a preset goal and be done with it, but the amount of effort that is put into the rest of the game and the degree to which people talk about their experiences beyond the main quest both argue that the typical play experience involves substantially more than just following it straight to its end, or even stopping once you get there after investigating other things along the way. And then, of course, you have the addition of DLCs, at least three of which have their own main questlines. Are they before, after, or during the main story?

[Wolförian Garmdomia]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by Wolforian:

I had to sleep, but this isn't a chat room, so here's a topic healthy reply.

I think I understand your view(Just because I end the game at one point doesn't mean it's game over for someone else). I still disagree, as the end of FO4 is pretty much "war never changes" and everything past that is just for fun, not for story.

That's what I mean in part, but you have to keep in mind that the combination of the main story and all the other material and stories isn't in a set sequence, so it's not so much what's *past* it, as what you play in addition to it, which may be before, during, or after it. For some, it may even be instead of it (though I assume playing through the main story is typical), since story doesn't belong to the main questline alone, and the entire game is played for fun.

Even if you try to avoid all but the main questline (deliberately eschewing any sidequests you encounter), there's inevitably variation in what you run into along the way, both in the exact choices and in the incidental material. Does the main story involve meeting Dogmeat or passing him by? Does it involve fast travel between all possible locations or walking between them to save overall game time? What happened to be along the particular path you took through the wasteland? Is the settlement you get sent to for a main story quest a nearby one, or halfway across the Commonwealth, and what did handling it involve? Which faction should you hold above the others? Is the main story covered in a regular difficulty or survival mode?

The main quest is great for those who want to achieve a preset goal and be done with it, but the amount of effort that is put into the rest of the game and the degree to which people talk about their experiences beyond the main quest both argue that the typical play experience involves substantially more than just following it straight to its end, or even stopping once you get there after investigating other things along the way. And then, of course, you have the addition of DLCs, at least three of which have their own main questlines. Are they before, after, or during the main story?

Alright, I concede your arguement. I had played FH after the end, even though it feels like a quest after saving Nick. (I didn't have DLC's installed then). When it came out, I had to play NW after the main story, despite the fact it felt like an alternate path to the whole plot, or at the least, placed before concord. I also have another playthrough that does all but the MQ (up to DC anyways, that's to say I followed the story up to that point.). So there's quite a lot of variable even inside the main quest line to just say that this particular level is whichever part of the story. Can't say that level 24 is the end of the game when some MLG finishes it at 15. Or some explorer finishes at 256. Also who's to say a lore-hunter is only going to play the main quest? I doubt it.

Anyways, good on you. You make valid points, whereas I only had the one. You deserve a cookie.

[DouglasGrave]

In their absence, I may have to settle for sweetroll.

But yeah, there's so much potential for variation that pinning a standard level on things would need a census (or at least a data dump of the average level of characters played by everyone up to a certain point). Way back in Oblivion, I even found a way to finish the main quest at level 1.