Survival mode: water issues(bottles dissapear)

[Bambi🦌]

I need a confirmation - I gathered like 50 bottles(I thought this will be more than enough, as they are made of glass, meaning u can reuse these bottles) And collected water in all of them, after I refined them all in to a clean water. But, after I used all the clean water I had - I realised that there is no empty bottles in my inventroy!

What kind of treachery is this? Dark magic? How am I supposed to keep hydrated if my char is always thirsty? Do I have to setup raids "bottle hunting?" Purified water costs a lot from vendor. So this solution wont work. Why cant I just reuse the same 3 bottles all the time?

[red255]

I had a number of issues with survival, though I think the fact they disabled saving and disabled the console and disabled fast travel I just got stuck on a wall and couldn't salvage my character.

because fallout 4 engine.

[The Inept European]

Also, putting the bottle to pump (which fills it instantly) and then immediately drinking the bottle of "purified" water has a wholly different and superior effect than standing drinking at the pump, even if you drink from the pump for the same time period as the effect duration of the (bottled) Purified Water.

It's basically brainless and f__ked.

[Tesityr]

If I may pop in, it actually makes sense, since you used the Bottles - they are now "used" and therefore cannot hold 'pure/just water' anymore - it would cause infection or at least stress on your immune system, since you are no longer using a "clean" container (if you reused it)...

The slight detail that all containers are basically dirty as hell after 200 years aside [the bacteria died off after running out of food source on the material?], it is still now a "used" item and therefore should not be refilled, to hold "clean" water. Finding new ones [free of bacteria, since it all died off due to lack of food on the material?] and filling them with Purified Water from a clean source does makes some sense.
[similar to how you should not re-use glasses/cups at home, even just for yourself, since they are no longer 'clean', and should be washed ("respawned" heh) after each use]

Although, it does not answer why a Dirty Bottle, filled with Dirty Water and say, Cooked with, cannot be utilized again to be refilled with Dirty Water (from a river, puddle, etc) - or can it? [Does the prompt come up? I haven't tested this one.....]

[red255]

Dirty water is held in a cardboard box, would be like reusing a milk container, wouldn't be as structurally sound and would start leaking.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

You lost me when you said you actually "refined" the dirty water into purified water... What?

Who the heck does that? Survival or not?

Just stand next to a waterpump and hit R to fill your bottles. You can build water pumps in any settlement, most have way more than the minimum required to build a few if you just scrap everything around...

That's without saying that you'll stumble on over a few couple THOUSAND different kind of bottles you can all fill up with water to get purified water... Not to mention the water purifiers you can build super easy at any settlement with a river or a body of water which instantly turn water into purified water without needing bottles...

What's the issue with water again?

[Tesityr]

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

You lost me when you said you actually "refined" the dirty water into purified water... What?

Who the heck does that? Survival or not?
...

If I may pop back in, to address this query:

3 Dirty Water (any non-pure Source) = 1 Purified Water ('cooked' at a Cooking Station)

It makes sense actually (logically), you are 'boiling it' but you lose some in the process (as steam).

Lots of people do this lol - especially in Survival, it is very handy...

[Eagle_of_Fire]

Originally posted by Tesityr:

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

You lost me when you said you actually "refined" the dirty water into purified water... What?

Who the heck does that? Survival or not?
...

If I may pop back in, to address this query:

3 Dirty Water (any non-pure Source) = 1 Purified Water ('cooked' at a Cooking Station)

It makes sense actually (logically), you are 'boiling it' but you lose some in the process (as steam).

Lots of people do this lol - especially in Survival, it is very handy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GP5_NQ_LEs

[Tesityr]

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

Originally posted by Tesityr:

If I may pop back in, to address this query:

3 Dirty Water (any non-pure Source) = 1 Purified Water ('cooked' at a Cooking Station)

It makes sense actually (logically), you are 'boiling it' but you lose some in the process (as steam).

Lots of people do this lol - especially in Survival, it is very handy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GP5_NQ_LEs

That's ok, heh don't beat yourself up - I'm sure lots of people don't look at ALL the Recipes in the Lists (it is under Beverage at the Cooking Station) - it might take many people a long time to get around to seeing them all.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

Steam policy prevent me from telling you what I think of your intelligence level at this very moment.

[Tesityr]

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

Steam policy prevent me from telling you what I think of your intelligence level at this very moment.

Aw, thank you good sir. No need, I have had lots of third-party tests done to let me know ;)

Take care, you. I'm just glad I could help.

[The Inept European]

I'm not sure if the response above about not re-using "dirty" containers was sarcasm? Most of the containers have been plucked from 200 year old trash piles and probably used by radroaches to incubate their eggs. That idea could work, but only if the game had a sequence like -

- Collect an original sealed drink bottle (Nuka Cola etc)
- Drink it. Produces "Sterile bottle"
- Use "Sterile bottle" to contain water (probably Purified)
- Drink it. Produces "non sterile bottle" usable only as glass Junk.

Hmm. Basically water is broken on so many levels.

A partial fix would be to say that water is never portable unless you bring a container to the party (and a cap!). So it should work the same when the water (purified or not) is in Settlement Inventory or in a Pump. Bring one container per unit of water, or it's not transportable. At least then there would be consistency between the water you take out of the pump and the water the Settlers take out of the same pump.

(I do like the idea of cardboard containers, as depicted for Dirty Water, but who's manufacturing those? Does the Institute run a Tetra-Pak factory and distribute for free?).

What would be better still, since it would fix much-worse-broken aspects of the game, would be if Settlement water surpluses were never transportable and never sellable. Since that's the game breaking exploit that makes the real title of this game "Fallout 4 - God-Emperor of Water Farming". No one else (NPC) in the Commonwealth seems to have figured out this road to riches and power. (Heck most of their settlements don't have water enough for their population until the Sole Survivor strolls in like Paul Atreides...)

Since even Survival mode (which I'm mostly enjoying) can be turned into a farce by water farming, it's probably something BGS should fix rather than leaving it to the modders. Basically the game is broken. If it was a duplication exploit, they would fix it with a patch. It's a massive scale free money exploit, and they should not fail to fix it just because it's a bad game mechanic rather than bad coding.

[The Inept European]

Originally posted by n0t0ryczny:

Originally posted by Scopis:

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12674

This.

That.

I'm definitely installing this "Fix Survival" mod, I just wanted to see for myself how bad the BGS base version of Survival is first.

[The Inept European]

The more I think about it, what Survival Mode does with water is really badly thought out. The ability to generate infinite amounts of Purified Water from a Pump would almost be game-breaking, if it wasn't for the compensating effect of this issue that you don't recover the empty bottle after drinking.

Although actually you would not expect to recover the empty bottle after selling.

It's just inconsistent. Either you need empty bottles to make Purified Water portable, or you don't. It should be one or the other. Pumps in 3D view should behave the same as surplus settlement water in the Workshop inventory. Clearly the Settlement should not have unlimited Purified Water "on tap".

A consistent fix would be that

- taking water out of Workshop inventory requires an empty bottle to be provided and expended.

- the empty bottle would be returned (reappear in character inventory) after drinking, but

- buyers would expect to keep the bottle along with the water and would not return the empty bottle

- bottles can only be filled at a pump if there's surplus water in the settlement workshop inventory; and filling bottles deducts one unit from the settlement water surplus for every bottle that is filled

Taken together this would make both sides of the water system (Pump and Workshop/Settlement) consistent. It would also have a very healthy moderating influence on the game breaking practice of water farming. It would be possible to do low level water farming as a small scale side business, basically just marking the value of an empty bottle up to a base 20 caps. It would also be possible to maintain a re-usable personal stock of portable purified water. But there would be no more "water warlords of the wasteland" and no need to build more than about one water purifier for profit purposes, rather than just supporting the settlements water needs.

[Bambi🦌]

True.

[The Inept European]

Oh FFS this same bug also means you can't craft crops into de-radiated food without a supply of empty bottles that get expended every time you produce.

The minor bugs with major effects are so demoralising and really damage my ability to enjoy the game.