Is the Brotherhood of Steel GOOD or EVIL?

[SuperMegaGlitch1]

While i was playing Fallout 4, it came a question to me, is the brotherhood of steel GOOD orEvil?

[Ghost]

Thats why preston made the sole surviver general. Preston admited he was not the leader the minutmen needed. Besides how r u suppost to rebuild of ir not the guy in charge.

[est Sinis prima civis]

They are racist socialists, which is extremely similar to the concept of national socialist, in another word, Nazis.

[Ruin]

Originally posted by VΓΛ:D:

They are racist socialists, which is extremely similar to the concept of national socialist, in another word, Nazis.

Examples of how the BoS are Nazis, please?

How are they in any way socialists for one, as I don't think you even know what a socialist is, especially considering the Minutemen, and their goals, are pretty much the utopian fallacy of socialism/communism...

You could argue they're Fascists (centralised economy, strong nationilistic values, large military, and a single, meritocratically selected leader with total power), but that in itself is not inherently evil, especially in the context of the Fallout world...

People assume Fascism is evil simply because of WWII, and the post-war propaganda that ensued yet, ironically, many of those same people are willing to give Communism another go, despite upwards of 100million dead thanks directly to Socialism/Communism, and counting...

[GoreTiger]

Originally posted by VΓΛ:D:

They are racist socialists, which is extremely similar to the concept of national socialist, in another word, Nazis.

The "Facist Nazi" Faction of Fallout is The Enclave. Only the Ignorant believe the Brotherhood are anything close to being Nazis.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by us271934:

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Morally, good and evil boil down to actions that either help or harm someone else (respectively).

Different individuals consider different things harmful or helpful (and the concept of "greater good" is often involved), but the basic connection of helpful and harmful actions with good and evil works as an abstract concept separate from a particular perspective.

Good and evil concepts come down to what one thinks helps or harms oneself rather than others even if it is wrapped in subjective labels of morality. What you're stating is more about how someone rationalizes their actions.

Well, it's true the concepts relate to the self, though the moral actions you can personal take have to relate to someone else (there's no question of morality when it's your own actions affecting only yourself).

But individuals can also have a perception of what they believe helps or harms someone else, and hold it separate from the perspective of what helps or harms themselves. Consistent to both cases is the identification of good with help and evil with harm. The moral fundament is the same, even if the exact means of producing it varies.

For a very straightforward example, I, a normal human, would usually consider being cleansed of radiation to be good, since it helps me, but if I met a Child of Atom, I could recognize that they might not want cleansing, and thus consider it harmful to be cleansed. I therefore recognize a difference between what they and I consider good or evil (and can take different actions if I want to help or harm them), though the moral basis or harm or help is unchanged.

[raubrey]

Originally posted by KrayToast:

Overall, They are a good Orginization that has been forced to make Hard decisions to Preserve Technology. It's easy for us in our comfortable present world to judge them for their desperate actions in the Post apocolyptic enviroment, But sometimes Morality has to take a back seat to Logic.


Overall tho, Elder Maxson is an Amazing leader, Who looks out for his soldiers, Inspires greatness in them, And didn't hesitate to use his Military force to help defend and save the people of the Commonwealth. Not only from the Institute,But from the feral Ghouls and Super mutants that were plagueing the lands.
Only the Ignorant call Maxson a Bigot or Racist. They likely think Trump is "Litterly hitler" too.

Good post. Keep that up and you'll ruin your image.

[AlexMBrennan]

And teagans little Farm scheme is without the Permission of Maxson which is why he's so hush hush about it.

It doesn't work that way - if the BOS leadership does not allocate enough funds for the quartermaster to legitimately buy food then they are implicitly condoning whatever actions are necessary to obtain food at a discount because they know fully well that the only way to obtain the food necessary is by robbing locals.

Until such a time that Teagan is executed for war crimes the BOS raiders will have to be dealt with just like any other raider gang.

[Ruin]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

And teagans little Farm scheme is without the Permission of Maxson which is why he's so hush hush about it.

It doesn't work that way - if the BOS leadership does not allocate enough funds for the quartermaster to legitimately buy food then they are implicitly condoning whatever actions are necessary to obtain food at a discount because they know fully well that the only way to obtain the food necessary is by robbing locals.

Until such a time that Teagan is executed for war crimes the BOS raiders will have to be dealt with just like any other raider gang.

Lovely use of sophistry there, but Maxson and the rest of the Brotherhood cannot be held accountable for the actions of one rogue member who is operating outside of his given purview...

If so, the Minutemen should all be judged by the cowardice of many of their members not aiding the Quincy defenders, resulting in the massacre...

Teagan needs to be reigned in for sure, but his actions do not reflect the entire Brotherhood...

[Straybow]

Eh I suspect Maxson could probably have a little more oversight on Teagan if he really wanted. As long as the quartermaster doesn't kick up too much of a fuss I'd imagine it would be easy enough to not be too interested in the details. Only my interpretation of it.

[Ruin]

Here's the thing though, Teagan never actually encourages violence, he merely tells the player to use any means necessary and suggests he'd look the other way if that involves violence...

It's up to the player as to whether they obtain the food through peaceful trade or negotiation, assisting the settlement, or outright violence...

If I'm not mistaken Teagan even suggests a peacful approach if viable, if not, he tells you just to make it happen...

At worst Teagan is guilty of being indifferent to the people of the Commonwealth, which there is a lot of going around, even outside of the Brotherhood...

[Straybow]

I don't disagree for the most part, dead farmers don't grow food and it might interfere the BoS other policy in regards to traders if they casually loot and burn every village.

The last bit I don't find all that great as a defence though, even if people are largley indifferent to each other, it doesn't absolve to BoS/Teagan from being a cause of the incident. The same logic applies to people who get in the way of early model surface synths salvage teams. That the Institute may be indifferent doesn't change their responsibility as the cause of the incident. I'll grant you the salvage teams are the worse of the two as they kill on sight.

[Ruin]

Wasn't meaning it as a defence, only that Teagan's only real crime is indifference, it being widespread was only mentioned in passing as he shouldn't really be singled out for it, just like the Brotherhood should not be judged solely on his actions...

At the end of the day it's ultimately the player who steps outta line, not Teagan... Teagan simply offers to look the other way, if it gets immediate results...

[Straybow]

I'd still hold him as partially responsible (alongside the PC) if something occured. The point is slightly moot for me as I have no real issue with them extorting supplies, it is a time honoured tradition for an army on campaign.

[Ruin]

I've always thought that it was something like the tithes the Knights Templar would take in return for protecting pilgrims on their journey to the Holy Land... Only difference here it's protecting people's homes from the dangers of the wastelands...

Given the Brotherhood (Bethesda's take especially) are very similar in many ways to the Knights Templar, right down to their mostly autonomous splinter chapters, with marginal oversight from a central leadership, it would not surprise me if this was the idea behind the quests...

At the very least it plays into a somewhat feudal societal structure which the East Coast Brotherhood seem to have established back in DC, according to terminal records...

[Straybow]

It is a nicer way to put it and makes more sense if you think the BoS have longer term commitments to the area. In the end though it is still much the same if the "pilgrims" are reluctant.
Since the BoS only just arrived I think of it my way, If I were the BoS and interested in staying then I'd probably create more formal arrangements.