Is the Brotherhood of Steel GOOD or EVIL?

[SuperMegaGlitch1]

While i was playing Fallout 4, it came a question to me, is the brotherhood of steel GOOD orEvil?

[Ilja]

Good men, with a sense of honor, with narrow view of the world, which causes them to do evil things.

[troy_cummings]

^^. They have a good message, and the real downsides of this chapter of the BoS are due to the bigoted viewpoints of Elder Maxson. Good people with a good goal, trying to save humanity. And for the most part, they do a good job. Kill lots of bad guys, secure locations, but normal synths (non-Institute controlled), nonferal ghouls, and peaceful Super Mutants get caught in their bigotry.

[Undead Rufus]

Somewhat defensible end goals offset by extreme narrow-mindedness. If you've played Nuka World, I think Gage was basically right when he called the BoS a raider gang with a sense of legitimacy.

IMO, all of the factions in FO4 are a mixed bag (except maybe the Minutemen, though even they might be plausibly written off as too idealistic).

[Vyvyvn]

The BOS are a fine case study on the differences between Stupidity and Ignorance.

[GoreTiger]

Overall, They are a good Orginization that has been forced to make Hard decisions to Preserve Technology. It's easy for us in our comfortable present world to judge them for their desperate actions in the Post apocolyptic enviroment, But sometimes Morality has to take a back seat to Logic.


Overall tho, Elder Maxson is an Amazing leader, Who looks out for his soldiers, Inspires greatness in them, And didn't hesitate to use his Military force to help defend and save the people of the Commonwealth. Not only from the Institute,But from the feral Ghouls and Super mutants that were plagueing the lands.
Only the Ignorant call Maxson a Bigot or Racist. They likely think Trump is "Litterly hitler" too.

[nobody willsee this video right?]

fallout 4 is the first i have seen of the BOS, i hear they are different in other games.

to me they look like the crusaders of the middle ages.
they seem to be on a crusade to save the world from the technopagans that want to revive the old lost tech and destroy the world a little more completly next time.

on the face of it a nobal goal, but The Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition, commonly known as the Spanish Inquisition was making the world a better place, also.

[GoreTiger]

Originally posted by nobody willsee this video right?:

fallout 4 is the first i have seen of the BOS, i hear they are different in other games.

to me they look like the crusaders of the middle ages.
they seem to be on a crusade to save the world from the technopagans that want to revive the old lost tech and destroy the world a little more completly next time.

on the face of it a nobal goal, but The Tribunal of the Holy Office of the Inquisition, commonly known as the Spanish Inquisition was making the world a better place, also.

The Brotherhood in Fallout 1-2 were alot more Strict. Almost no Outsiders were aloud.

In fallout 3, They were alot more Liberal. But that's mainly due to the fact they were Marooned in the Capital Wasteland and it was a choice of Elder lyons to ether recruit outsiders, Or die off. Some of the BOS dissagreed with his decision and Broke off, Becoming the Outcasts. Who later rejoined under Maxson.

Maxson is a combination of both these teachings. East and West coast BOS. He preserves the Goal of Preserving technology and wiping out those who abuse it like the Western BOS, But also Looks out for the Local Population and Protects them while openly recruiting, Like the eastern BOS.

[Mringasa]

The BoS is more of a neutral faction. Depending on your choices, they can be good or evil. As an example, you could threaten Farmers for their food or bargain with them. Lyons was truly a good man, and the BoS became a "good" Faction in FO3 under him. Maxson has focused more on the West Coast BoS teachings and brought a bit more "evil" to the mix by not caring as much and tunnel vision'ing destroying the Institute no matter the casualties.

[=EGC= kansasterry]

Basically my take is the BOS have the ideology that they have to restrict access to technology out of fear that history will be repeated if people have access to advanced technology.

They lack the knowledge to fully understand that it was not the technology itself but the greed of those who possessed it that was the problem and so have actually began the very repeat of history they are trying to avoid only they are the ones that are doing evil things "to save humanity" just as the people in the past did evil things to "save their nation".

They narrow mindedly catagorize anyone they feel is not human as a threat that needs eliminated along with any humans that try and protect them.

So basically the answer will boil down to ones own personal opinion on how they go about trying to protect humanity as to if it is good or evil.

They way they treat their trusted ally Danse once they find out his origin is a prime example of this ideology at work

[red255]

what a random question.

So lets go with History of BOS, Fallout 1 the were a caravan destination on the Hub, to get in they send you on a quest to the Glow. the Glow has a radiation problem that ends alot of people's playthrus because it kills you 30 minutes after you leave the glow. so you get killed, save...and load and realize you are already dead.

Its intended on the brotherhood's part to be a mission its surprising you survive from. But its not required to complete the game to join the brotherhood so its just there. spending time in the brotherhood allows you a number of upgrades. if you spend weeks upgrading your stats you'd lose alot of time. the power armor's good though.

Not evil, just a distraction.

In Fallout 2 the Brotherhood's pressence was largely toned down, really just one guy, who gets offed in a cutscene while you are upgrading your stats. mission for joining, or at least gaining access to their facilities is do a mission which they fully expect you to succeed at, and power armor is given really independant of brotherhood sources.

role here is largely advisors, hands off. like Gandalf, you get the feeling they could do more, but how would you get Gandalf to do more than he wants to?

In Fallout Tactics, we have a view of the Brotherhood who gets discarded from the lore. literally they went East, and contact was lost and that never happened. the end. Moving on. Midwestern brotherhood if it existed would have destroyed the legion. Full Access to Various settlements and the Calculator's Vault. Too Powerful to Exist in the Lore. so didn't happen. Because Fallout 3 needs to have a wasteland.

Fallout 3. Brotherhood is Bethesdas brotherhood. they are the good guys, the outcast brotherhood are OK guys, neutrals. and enclave/super mutants are the bad guys.

Brotherhood does have a largely shoot on sight policy for Ghouls and Super mutants. But they don't go kicking down underworld's door and shooting all the Ghouls there. Its a reasonable enough solution that men in large clanking power armor with a shoot on sight policy for ghouls, the non-ferals should largely be able to avoid them.

Some breakage probably but not significant amounts. Ghouls like to complain. You realize Ghouls live forever and the bulk of them are hundreds of years old. your grandmother likes to complain too and she's only 80.

New Vegas the Brotherhood is a beaten wreck. it can be persuaded to join the NCR or be destroyed. Elijah the former leader of the brotherhood was evil. Basically not really a player anymore. at the End of New Vegas its etiher Destroyed or absorbed by the NCR basically ceasing to exist.

Which Brings us to Fallout 4. The leader of the Brotherhood is Maxim Lyons, which begs the question, what happened to Sarah? She apparently got killed somewhere, maybe her actor didn't get renewed, maybe something sinister, who knows. its a question, but nothing really definative. Likely the Writers felt the scene played better with a powerful male commander.

Why do they inherit rule from parent to son? I mean thats a king, why do they have a king? Did they have a King in previous verision of the lore? I don't think so.

it changes things for the knights of the BoS to have a King, doesn't make them evil, but its a notable change.

the problem with a king, is basically Elder Lyons died, and Maxim Lyons took over, when he was what? 15? Rubs people the wrong way but I'm pretty sure bethesda writers just said, hey they got knights they should have a king. which is also why the fallout 3 and new vegas power armor was just heavy armor.

They were stuck in their fantasy setting mindset. Power armor is NOT just heavy armor. it doesn't slow down your move speed. its high tech, powered armor. Fallout 4 made it more like driving a vehicle, which is more right. but the king thing is the writers being stuck in the fantasy setting mindset.

not an evil thing.

so the next thing that sets people off on the Brotherhood is the Brotherhood wants to destroy all synths.

this is different than the Fallout 3 destruction of all Ghouls who get in their path, because they actively seek out nests of synths, the RailRoad and the institute and destroy them.

So we want to look at this difference and determine whether or not this is evil. which is a silly term, it possibly is evil, but is it Nessary?

So the Brotherhood believe that Synths by merely existing are a threat to the continued existance of mankind. Do we believe this is something that is true?

In Fallout tactics robots left to their own devices almost destroyed mankind, in Wasteland and wasteland 2, again thinking robots come to the conclusion they need to eradicate mankind.

either they think and they are a threat to mankind, or they don't, and they are just toasters, stop complaining about toasters getting destroyed.

In Fallout 4 Institute synths are replacing people, kidnapping those people and those people are being turned into super mutants for giggles, nobody doubts the institute is both evil and insane.

the difference between the Brotherhood and the RailRoad is whether or not the synths involved should be spared.

Its the Brotherhoods interpretation of the data that if synths are allowed to exist it will lead to a war mankind will not survive. or at least be reduced to a post bomb state of existance. and they are seeking to avoid that.

Good or evil, right or wrong that is their motivation. they are fighting both this current war vs the institute and the next one vs the synths.

[JobeGardener]

The game seems to think that they are good guys because everytime that you encounter them they attack everything but you. More often than not they actually help you too. That would be a logical determining factor i would think.

[Dex]

The current leadership is straight up fascist/xenophobic so I'd say they're closer to evil than good.

[Zeenjan]

The Brotherhood is an invading army, so that sets their morality level to amoral. Fairly standard with invading armies. I think amoral is a resonable stance for an invading army to take. They don't ask if a town wants to join them, they just take what they want or need. If you have technology they want, you're prolly SOL. Depending on who's sitting in front of that keyboard, your payment could be a bullet, could be caps. Again, completely self serving, and given the situation, fairly resonable.

They could easily improve the lives of everyone in the Commonwealth. Instead, they dedicate part of their forces to murdering entire groups of Commonwealth residents. Any kind of genocide is evil, that should be a given.


On an esoteric level, there is t he question of how the BoS handles freewill, choice, They don't respect it--comply or die. The Minutemen give settments the option of joining. If you don't, that's cool too

[Flippy]

Originally posted by red255:

what a random question.

So lets go with History of BOS, Fallout 1 the were a caravan destination on the Hub, to get in they send you on a quest to the Glow. the Glow has a radiation problem that ends alot of people's playthrus because it kills you 30 minutes after you leave the glow. so you get killed, save...and load and realize you are already dead.

Its intended on the brotherhood's part to be a mission its surprising you survive from. But its not required to complete the game to join the brotherhood so its just there. spending time in the brotherhood allows you a number of upgrades. if you spend weeks upgrading your stats you'd lose alot of time. the power armor's good though.

Not evil, just a distraction.

In Fallout 2 the Brotherhood's pressence was largely toned down, really just one guy, who gets offed in a cutscene while you are upgrading your stats. mission for joining, or at least gaining access to their facilities is do a mission which they fully expect you to succeed at, and power armor is given really independant of brotherhood sources.

role here is largely advisors, hands off. like Gandalf, you get the feeling they could do more, but how would you get Gandalf to do more than he wants to?

In Fallout Tactics, we have a view of the Brotherhood who gets discarded from the lore. literally they went East, and contact was lost and that never happened. the end. Moving on. Midwestern brotherhood if it existed would have destroyed the legion. Full Access to Various settlements and the Calculator's Vault. Too Powerful to Exist in the Lore. so didn't happen. Because Fallout 3 needs to have a wasteland.

Fallout 3. Brotherhood is Bethesdas brotherhood. they are the good guys, the outcast brotherhood are OK guys, neutrals. and enclave/super mutants are the bad guys.

Brotherhood does have a largely shoot on sight policy for Ghouls and Super mutants. But they don't go kicking down underworld's door and shooting all the Ghouls there. Its a reasonable enough solution that men in large clanking power armor with a shoot on sight policy for ghouls, the non-ferals should largely be able to avoid them.

Some breakage probably but not significant amounts. Ghouls like to complain. You realize Ghouls live forever and the bulk of them are hundreds of years old. your grandmother likes to complain too and she's only 80.

New Vegas the Brotherhood is a beaten wreck. it can be persuaded to join the NCR or be destroyed. Elijah the former leader of the brotherhood was evil. Basically not really a player anymore. at the End of New Vegas its etiher Destroyed or absorbed by the NCR basically ceasing to exist.

Which Brings us to Fallout 4. The leader of the Brotherhood is Maxim Lyons, which begs the question, what happened to Sarah? She apparently got killed somewhere, maybe her actor didn't get renewed, maybe something sinister, who knows. its a question, but nothing really definative. Likely the Writers felt the scene played better with a powerful male commander.

Why do they inherit rule from parent to son? I mean thats a king, why do they have a king? Did they have a King in previous verision of the lore? I don't think so.

it changes things for the knights of the BoS to have a King, doesn't make them evil, but its a notable change.

the problem with a king, is basically Elder Lyons died, and Maxim Lyons took over, when he was what? 15? Rubs people the wrong way but I'm pretty sure bethesda writers just said, hey they got knights they should have a king. which is also why the fallout 3 and new vegas power armor was just heavy armor.

They were stuck in their fantasy setting mindset. Power armor is NOT just heavy armor. it doesn't slow down your move speed. its high tech, powered armor. Fallout 4 made it more like driving a vehicle, which is more right. but the king thing is the writers being stuck in the fantasy setting mindset.

not an evil thing.

so the next thing that sets people off on the Brotherhood is the Brotherhood wants to destroy all synths.

this is different than the Fallout 3 destruction of all Ghouls who get in their path, because they actively seek out nests of synths, the RailRoad and the institute and destroy them.

So we want to look at this difference and determine whether or not this is evil. which is a silly term, it possibly is evil, but is it Nessary?

So the Brotherhood believe that Synths by merely existing are a threat to the continued existance of mankind. Do we believe this is something that is true?

In Fallout tactics robots left to their own devices almost destroyed mankind, in Wasteland and wasteland 2, again thinking robots come to the conclusion they need to eradicate mankind.

either they think and they are a threat to mankind, or they don't, and they are just toasters, stop complaining about toasters getting destroyed.

In Fallout 4 Institute synths are replacing people, kidnapping those people and those people are being turned into super mutants for giggles, nobody doubts the institute is both evil and insane.

the difference between the Brotherhood and the RailRoad is whether or not the synths involved should be spared.

Its the Brotherhoods interpretation of the data that if synths are allowed to exist it will lead to a war mankind will not survive. or at least be reduced to a post bomb state of existance. and they are seeking to avoid that.

Good or evil, right or wrong that is their motivation. they are fighting both this current war vs the institute and the next one vs the synths.

This reply sticks to the facts and is excellent.

[Flippy]

Originally posted by Zeenjan:

The Brotherhood is an invading army, so that sets their morality level to amoral. Fairly standard with invading armies. I think amoral is a resonable stance for an invading army to take. They don't ask if a town wants to join them, they just take what they want or need. If you have technology they want, you're prolly SOL. Depending on who's sitting in front of that keyboard, your payment could be a bullet, could be caps. Again, completely self serving, and given the situation, fairly resonable.

They could easily improve the lives of everyone in the Commonwealth. Instead, they dedicate part of their forces to murdering entire groups of Commonwealth residents. Any kind of genocide is evil, that should be a given.


On an esoteric level, there is t he question of how the BoS handles freewill, choice, They don't respect it--comply or die. The Minutemen give settments the option of joining. If you don't, that's cool too

They park on the edge of the map and dont actually attack any of the residents or forces of the Commonwealth or war with them in any way, including Diamond City and the rest. So invading army isnt accurate. They do fight the so called "bad guys", but its a fictional story and not very fun if Super Mutants and Feral Ghouls are friendly helpful cute bunnies, which they are not and attack everything on sight.