Is the Brotherhood of Steel evil?

[Charlemagne]

Mirroring another current thread which discusses if the Institute is evil. I know many people believe that the BoS is intrinsically evil. Sometimes you see people that viscerally hate the BoS, with an intensity that one rarely sees even in relation to other groups which are really and undeniably bad, like the Legion. This is based, I have noticed, in a conception mostly rooted in late 20th Century and 21st Century liberal political views, by which they are seen as fascist, racist or antidemocratic. But the counterargument to that IMO is, should they be peaceful, tree-hugging and democratic in a savage post-apocalyptic world? Would that even be viable?
Political views aside, I have noticed that in all the Fallouts even in Fallout 1, all the way to 76, the BoS can be considered among the various factions present, to be one of the good guy factions. Furthermore, I perceive that the game designers have always intended them to be. They are always quite easy for the player to befriend. They present themselves as rude, ill-mannered, ruthless with their enemies and closed minded, but once inside you notice they are ordinary, friendly and lawful people. They are a bit uncharitable with certain groups, like non-feral ghouls; but overall, it can be perceived that they have a sense of doing good. They are nothing like, for example, the raiders, the Legion or the Enclave.
In most Fallouts they play a critical role in the main story, sometimes essential, requiring that the player befriend them.

[NecroMaster]

Originally posted by voyager6:

Father wants all humans replaced with Synths.....

What father wants is unclear because Bethesda did not put any clear and sensible endgoal for him.

[SievertChaser]

Originally posted by NecroMaster:

Originally posted by voyager6:

Father wants all humans replaced with Synths.....

What father wants is unclear because Bethesda did not put any clear and sensible endgoal for him.

Indeed, but that is an unsatisfying explanation. See, it's easy to make the consumer write the story for you!

[SievertChaser]

Father does not deviate from the Institute viewpoint on synths, or their isolationism. He does not take amy concrete steps to achieve the goal of conquering the surface.

More importantly, a sociopath would not be concerned with the future of the Institute after his death, and would least of all care if it is taken in a better direction. Indeed, they'd probably blow it up themselves: if they can't have it, no-one should. That's why sociopathic Machiavellians always purge those around them until they're surrounded by incompetent but loyal mediocrities that have no chance of usurping them. No, we're not dealing with a sociopath.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by dennis.danilov:

Father does not deviate from the Institute viewpoint on synths, or their isolationism. He does not take amy concrete steps to achieve the goal of conquering the surface.

Final scene showing synths occupying Diamond City. As paranoid as Diamond City is against synths you think they just going to let them in and let them be in control willingly?

[Zotliatlicor]

The Knights Templar Order of Europe did not view themselves as Evil, and they for sure started out as good or with good intentions. But they killed thousands of innocent people to 'defend' their views. If you stood against them you were basically dead to them. Eventually they were declared Heretics and hunted down and killed.

Adolf Hitler and his rabid crew also did not see themselves as Evil but as the 'Cure' for a diseased and broken world. And we know how that went. Complete Madness and Evilness combined.

Stalin i think must have known all along that he was Evil. Simply too many deaths under his rule.

History is so full of this Evilness. And the winners of any conflict got to write the history books.

Father in the Institute are 100 % convinced that his way is the 'Only Way' for the world to survive. And the BOS are 100% opposed to this view and have their own Solution.

But BOS has many leaders and Lore through all of the Fallout Games. I Percieve them as mostly good over the Franchise, due to its leaders and dialouge in the past.

But the Prywden Crew, or its Leader Maxton, well his actions must be examined and used as evidence. And therein most find him (and then BOS) Evil.

[SievertChaser]

Originally posted by Zotliatlicor:

Stalin i think must have known all along that he was Evil. Simply too many deaths under his rule.

Context matters. Stalin was more moderate than his predecessors, let alone his alternatives. Presented with a country knee-deep in blood and surrounded by a backstabbing clique with a fetish for torture, what exactly were his options?

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by 2021camero:

-Those with antisocial personality disorder tend to lie, break laws, act impulsively, and lack regard for their own safety or the safety of others. Symptoms may lessen with age. -

That definition of fits father to a T. He didn't give a ♥♥♥♥ about the people above ground or even his parents. It lessened when he got old. He literrally says old age has started to change him.

People need to replay the game fully.

Antisocial behaviour is measured compared to normal socialization, which means within an associated, nonhostile group. But Father doesn't lie, break the laws of his own society, or lack regard for his own safety or the safety of others within his society.

He's not concerned about the safety of his explicit enemies nor does he obey the laws of said enemies, but that wouldn't be normal behaviour anyway.

[RobotPrincessMachine]

No, they aren't evil. The Brotherhood of Steel wants to save humanity and make a more organized and civilized government. Mostly, the Brotherhood's goal is to completely annihilate anarchy. They want to hunt dangerous creatures of the Commonwealth to extinction, and keep technology out of other people's hands to prevent another armageddon. Proctor Teagan's quest involving securing crops from settlements is not just to feed the soldiers, but to bestow fear, power, and guilt upon the farmers to let them know that the BOS is in charge. That isn't ethical, but as of now there isn't much of a choice for the BOS if they want to run the Commonwealth in the future. They may not be the most moral faction, but they are effective when it comes to ensuring the safety of citizens. Especially when a vertiberd saved me several times when encountering super mutants and ghouls.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Zebastron:

No, they aren't evil. The Brotherhood of Steel wants to save humanity and make a more organized and civilized government.

The BOS is not interested in governing or ruling anything.
Their mission is to prevent another apocalypse and preserve technology to rebuild.

[red255]

Ok, the institute is the sort of evil that kidnaps people replaces them with synths, and the people get turned into super mutants and both of them go on rampages.

thats tie damsels to train tracks evil.

if the brotherhood is evil, its evil within reason.

like the brotherhood has a cause, to prevent the war from getting to the excesses that caused the bombs to drop in the first place. denying humanity the capability to destroy itself.

the BoS came to Fallout 4 to destroy the institute who is clearly evil. During this they will also destroy the railroad. and there is reasoning for this, which if you spend time with the railroad is fully justified.

Synths are created by scientists who have shown both clear homocidal maniac tendancies and the ability to control the synths to commit murder and mayhem.

Railroad with the compromised status of switchboard and other safehouses seems to be fully infiltrated with institute synths.

the fact that none of them even consider how it went south suggest they aren't allowed to consider that. because they are all synths. under the control of the institute.

as such eliminating them makes sense.

hostility toward ghouls and super mutants makes sense if you aren't a hippie.

so when asked if the brotherhood are evil?

no of course not hippie.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Angela:

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

The BOS is not interested in governing or ruling anything.
Their mission is to prevent another apocalypse and preserve technology to rebuild.

I figured this is why Elder Maxon makes the minuteman general a Sentinel. Let one of your own deal directly with the civis problems.

Everyone always paints this picture how the BOS is some evil ruling overlord.
The one thing they never manage to paint is where the BOS allegedly rule over.