Automatic weapons are so bad

[luther84695]

It is ridiculous that when you hold down the mouse button, the aim goes higher and higher and eventually you are shooting at the sky. To shoot at someone outside of VATS just right in front of me, I have to aim at the crotch so that the third burst might end up shooting the head. Also, high power lasers exist in real life, and laser cannons are currently the secret weapons in the US military used to hit the drones. Those don't have recoils. Do Bethesda hire high school dropouts who flunked physics as programmers or what?

But anyways, I think automatic weapons are more like a second weapon, and the commando perk should only be picked after rifleman or gunslinger having been picked already.
I can totally see that VATS critical build work very well for automatic weapons since you can't miss when you take a critical shot and you get a burst of 3 bullets going toward the head instead of 1. Any other build is much inferior to other builds.

[luther84695]

Messaggio originale di wtiger27:

Another tip if you do not know about already, is to loot the weapon and ammo off a dead body, You will get extra ammo if you also loot the weapon. You then can drop it if you do not want to sell it or to conserve weight. But you will still keep the extra ammo.

Wow! I never knew this. I don't bother picking up some weapons such as hunting rifles and double barrel shotguns because they weigh too much.

Also, how do you deal with scary guys welding fatman in power armor? Do you try to snipe with automatic weapons?

[luther84695]

I just watched the video Fallout 4 OP Automatic Weapon Build by French Tomahawk. He has almost no recoil in his weapons and he aims just about all his shots. So far I mostly shoot from the hips because commando perk supposes to improve that. I choose change how I approach things. Automatic Weapon build definitely requires some knowledge to play whereas semi-automatic is quite foolproof.

[steventirey]

All types of weapons are basically viable. You can get through the game with anything. Though if going automatic, avoid the submachine gun unless you get the legendary Spray and Pray one off of Cricket. Normal submachine guns just suck - a pipe pistol is better for everything except ammo capacity.

[ghpstage]

While in third person you will see crosshairs on the screen, these are a visual guide of how much spread your weapon will suffer from when hip fired. Shots can land anywhere inside those crosshairs, and as for a brief period after firing a penalty is applied that makes the crosshairs even larger it becoems an even bigger issue for automatics.

You still have to care about recoil moving your aim while aiming down sights, but with spread being reduced to near zero you can rely on shots landing where they are aimed.... and with VATS playing by different rules again there is little practical reason to use hip fire much beyond last resort.

That being said you can build dedicated hip fire automatics if you want, start with a shot ported barrel where available.

[globefish23]

Get used to manually compensate for recoil by adjusting your aim.

I did that back in 1996 with the machine gun in Quake 2, which to my knowledge was the first game that added recoil, in a time where every shooter was just a point-and-click shooting gallery.

[fkr]

I dont get it, the recoil in this game is almost absent, add the fact that you can mod the weapon for better handling too and it's gone.

I dont want to be "that guy" but the only time i felt recoil is when i used a never ending double barrel, ♥♥♥♥ was crazy, you really do end up aiming at the sky

[wtiger27]

Messaggio originale di meh:

I dont get it, the recoil in this game is almost absent, add the fact that you can mod the weapon for better handling too and it's gone.

I dont want to be "that guy" but the only time i felt recoil is when i used a never ending double barrel, ♥♥♥♥ was crazy, you really do end up aiming at the sky

Recoil is certainly in the game. With a lot of weapons. Maybe you do not notice them so much because you use Vats a lot. And also the type of weapon.

Messaggio originale di luther84695:

Messaggio originale di wtiger27:

Another tip if you do not know about already, is to loot the weapon and ammo off a dead body, You will get extra ammo if you also loot the weapon. You then can drop it if you do not want to sell it or to conserve weight. But you will still keep the extra ammo.

Wow! I never knew this. I don't bother picking up some weapons such as hunting rifles and double barrel shotguns because they weigh too much.

Also, how do you deal with scary guys welding fatman in power armor? Do you try to snipe with automatic weapons?

There are different tactics to use. Sniping can work of course. But you better kill them quickly, if not run away if he detects you. lol. Also having dense armor mod can help reduce damage from explosions a lot. In other words, shoot and move. Or use a nuke on him.

Even with a commando build, I prefer to also use another build in conjunct with that build. Such as Gunslinger, Demolition or Melee. Gives you more options for different situations. But I focus on Commando first.

[fkr]

Always been a fps type of player, i rarely use vats dude.
Im telling you recoil isnt a big deal in Fallout4.

Dont know if you ever played games like Rust or Counter strike, if you have then you know already how much of kick recoil can have in games

[Heimdall313]

Automatics are pretty short range, and the main point is to actually burst fire. You can also run and gun (this is why it has the hip-fire accuracy bonuses) to be more mobile, while semi autos make you fairly stationary. Great against Ghouls for example, lots of quick moving targets with low HP that close to melee range. Its very fun if you can feed it ammo tbh. Aim down sights at mid range, burst fire, and keep your gun heavy with compensators. Heavier weight reduces recoil and increases draw time; light weight increases draw speed and increases recoil.

You want to pair it with Explosives for le assault commando, Melee for conserving ammo, or Gunslinger to use a .44 for a lightweight, mid-long range option for stuff like turrets. Some legendary effects are also stupidly OP with Automatics, like Bleed damage, explosive, and incendiary.

Rifleman is the gold standard, semi auto rifle is always the shooty game work horse, but commando really has a lot of fun.

[CRCGamer]

Full auto weapons can be some of the highest available DPS as long as you can feed it the ammo. Great for crowds or burning down a particularly nasty legendary mob at speed.

My current build is mostly using rifleman whenever I'm not burning things down with explosives and heavy weapons. Its simple, it works, and is very sustainable since it doesn't burn through healing items like melee or caps like heavy weapons. I simply have the option to opt into using a basic rifle or shotgun when the situation doesn't call for dropping grenades everywhere and force feeding things rockets.

Not to mention that build wise trying to keep a fancy full auto or heavy weapon fed early on before ammo types for them become much more available at the merchants is not easy to deal with. Which is a great reason to perk for a standby option that complements your end goal build. For example giving somebody a couple shotgun blasts to the face is much safer for my health bar than attempting to point-blank with a legendary missile launcher that does over a thousand damage before mitigation kicks in.

I've had previous runs where I mostly used commando powered automatics. Again I had a reserve option which complemented my build (Unarmed was a memorable one). The only way commando weapons are "bad" is when a player tries to use only that and nothing else. But generally speaking any build that only has one weapon perk set acquired is going to be having issues.

[wtiger27]

Messaggio originale di meh:

Always been a fps type of player, i rarely use vats dude.
Im telling you recoil isnt a big deal in Fallout4.

Dont know if you ever played games like Rust or Counter strike, if you have then you know already how much of kick recoil can have in games

No, have not played those two games. But Fallout 4 range weapons do have recoil. Even the very first pistol you get in the game, the 10mm has some recoil.

Big deal? Well, that depends on the weapon and player. Just because it is no big deal for you, does not mean it is not for others.

I have played Red Dead Redemption 2 and Far Cry 2 and 5 and the recoil in Fallout 4 is about on level with those two games.

[Solomon Hawk]

Messaggio originale di luther84695:

It is ridiculous that when you hold down the mouse button, the aim goes higher and higher and eventually you are shooting at the sky. To shoot at someone outside of VATS just right in front of me, I have to aim at the crotch so that the third burst might end up shooting the head. Also, high power lasers exist in real life, and laser cannons are currently the secret weapons in the US military used to hit the drones. Those don't have recoils. Do Bethesda hire high school dropouts who flunked physics as programmers or what?

But anyways, I think automatic weapons are more like a second weapon, and the commando perk should only be picked after rifleman or gunslinger having been picked already.
I can totally see that VATS critical build work very well for automatic weapons since you can't miss when you take a critical shot and you get a burst of 3 bullets going toward the head instead of 1. Any other build is much inferior to other builds.

Serious question.
Have you EVER fired an automatic weapon in real life?

[wtiger27]

Messaggio originale di Solomon Hawk:

Messaggio originale di luther84695:

It is ridiculous that when you hold down the mouse button, the aim goes higher and higher and eventually you are shooting at the sky. To shoot at someone outside of VATS just right in front of me, I have to aim at the crotch so that the third burst might end up shooting the head. Also, high power lasers exist in real life, and laser cannons are currently the secret weapons in the US military used to hit the drones. Those don't have recoils. Do Bethesda hire high school dropouts who flunked physics as programmers or what?

But anyways, I think automatic weapons are more like a second weapon, and the commando perk should only be picked after rifleman or gunslinger having been picked already.
I can totally see that VATS critical build work very well for automatic weapons since you can't miss when you take a critical shot and you get a burst of 3 bullets going toward the head instead of 1. Any other build is much inferior to other builds.

Serious question.
Have you EVER fired an automatic weapon in real life?

I have. But not the modern versions we have now. I am old fart, Vietnam Era Veteran and combat trained tank crewman. One weapon we had to train with is the old .45 cal sub-machine gun, we nicked named, the Greasegun.

It was pretty short and only had like a 8" or so barrel and retractable metal stock. If you where right handed, It would pull to the right, left if you where left handed. We where trained to spray with it, starting to the left of the enemies or right of the enemies, depending on which hand you used to pull the trigger.

It was never meant to be a precise target weapon, but more of a suppressed fire type and a pray you hit something. It's recoil however was worse than what they are in Fallout 4. Machine guns which where mounted however, the recoil was much less of course. Even with the .50 cal.

[luther84695]

OKAY. It turns out that I am completely wrong about automatic weapons. The combination of recoil reduction mods and aimed shots with reflex sights make it really powerful. I just aim, hold down mouse button, and the enemy drops and rinse and repeat. I use an automatic pistol for VATS and an automatic rifle for manual firing.
Also sniping with hunting rifle still works. Even without any perks into rifleman, the ninja and sandman multipliers still makes sniping with hunting rifle viable.
Right now I am level 25 and my righteous authority is making short works of everything.

[wtiger27]

Messaggio originale di luther84695:

OKAY. It turns out that I am completely wrong about automatic weapons. The combination of recoil reduction mods and aimed shots with reflex sights make it really powerful. I just aim, hold down mouse button, and the enemy drops and rinse and repeat. I use an automatic pistol for VATS and an automatic rifle for manual firing.
Also sniping with hunting rifle still works. Even without any perks into rifleman, the ninja and sandman multipliers still makes sniping with hunting rifle viable.
Right now I am level 25 and my righteous authority is making short works of everything.

Glad you are having fun and learned how automatics can rock if done right.