The Sole Survivor is NOT a synth.

[Fake]

You know who says that? A synth.






No, but really, the Sole Survivor is a dirty synth.

[fluxtorrent]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

You were the one raising the opinion that VATS required the pipboy. Still waiting for you to quantify that with ANYTHING. Any source at all.

I see no need to do so if you're denying regular VATS exists at all as an effect within game lore. It fits with being a synth either way:

1. Pip-VATS exists, depending on the Pipboy. That's fine, since the Sole Survivor isn't using a Pipboy, leaving synth-VATS as the explanation.
2. Pip-VATS doesn't exist. That's fine, since synth-VATS is still the only explanation.

There's only a need to link Pip-VATS to the Pipboy in the scenario where Pip-VATS exists.

Except I never claimed that at all. This is getting BEYOND gymnastics.

1: VATS exists. This isn't even an argument. It simply is never claimed ANYWHERE in the lroe that it requires a pipboy.

So your metagame argument that you can use it before you get the pipboy is a nonstarter. It proves literally nothing.

[fluxtorrent]

Ooooh lets apply Douglas level thinking to the opposing argument: Your character NEVER expresses a preference for Fancy Lads so you can't be a synth.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

Actually no, it means literally the opposite. If the pipboy isn't a necessary component then "you can do it before you get the pipboy and that makes you a synth" is not an argument at all.

It doesn't need to be; that line of discussion is to indicate the separate of the Pipboy from the VATS effect. The claim is based not on the absence of the Pipboy itself, but the implication that without that potential cause, synth-VATS is left as the only explanation.

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

Actually lets take it one further. Nothing in the entry about synth abilities includes that their "version" lets the user take less damage when hit while using it. VATS does.

That element is not explicitly stated for anything, but the Institute's synth-VATS is still a better fit for the effects we do observe than no explanation at all.

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

We could even go TWO further. Metagame, In 3 and New Vegas if you remove the pipboy you can STILL use vats.

You'd have to demonstrate VATS is a real effect as far as the story is concerned before the presence or absence of the Pipboy on someone is relevant.

That's the problem with trying to mix metagame and lore like that.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

1: VATS exists. This isn't even an argument. It simply is never claimed ANYWHERE in the lroe that it requires a pipboy.

So your metagame argument that you can use it before you get the pipboy is a nonstarter. It proves literally nothing.

If VATS exists and there's no dependence on a Pipboy, the observed VATS effect being synth-VATS is unchallenged by any other story explanation.

Using it before you get the Pipboy is a story-based argument, not a metagame one.

[fluxtorrent]

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Middle_Mountain_Cabins_terminal_entries#Pioneer_Scout_Advice

VATS exists. Confirmed in both 3 and 76.

Still nothing requiring a pipboy.

So VATS exists, and theres no dependency on being a synth. So it's use by the SS is not an indicator either way.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

Ooooh lets apply Douglas level thinking to the opposing argument: Your character NEVER expresses a preference for Fancy Lads so you can't be a synth.

Even were Fancy Lad Snack Cake preferences solid as an indication, we never have a dislike expressed either, or any other particular attitude. The point is inconclusive, being unproven either way.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Middle_Mountain_Cabins_terminal_entries#Pioneer_Scout_Advice

VATS exists. Confirmed in both 3 and 76.

Still nothing requiring a pipboy.

The version there doesn't match the VATS effect seen in Fallout 4.

If you treat it as caused by a PIpboy you'd have a reason to consider them related effects, but having cut that away, you've got no narrative connection between them at all, and Fallout 4's VATS can be considered independently.

[fluxtorrent]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

Ooooh lets apply Douglas level thinking to the opposing argument: Your character NEVER expresses a preference for Fancy Lads so you can't be a synth.

Even were Fancy Lad Snack Cake preferences solid as an indication, we never have a dislike expressed either, or any other particular attitude. The point is inconclusive, being unproven either way.

Wow so you CAN recognize a ridiculous argument. Explain how you still think yours holds water? THe fact its explicitly stated that ALL synths love Fancy Lads and they can't figure out why is an indisputable FACT. You have literally no argument to counter it short of calling the members of the institute liars which DESTROYS all the rest of your flimsy arguments about ANYTHING else related to synths since they are the source of ALL that data.

Can't have it both ways cupcake. Choosing to ignore JUST the data they provide that you don't like is moronic at best.

[fluxtorrent]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Middle_Mountain_Cabins_terminal_entries#Pioneer_Scout_Advice

VATS exists. Confirmed in both 3 and 76.

Still nothing requiring a pipboy.

The version there doesn't match the VATS effect seen in Fallout 4.

If you treat it as caused by a PIpboy you'd have a reason to consider them related effects, but having cut that away, you've got no narrative connection between them at all, and Fallout 4's VATS can be considered independently.

Which still leaves you with no conclusive argument that requires a pipboy for the SS to use VATS without being a synth. Heck it doesn't even leave you with any inconclusive evidence either.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

THe fact its explicitly stated that ALL synths love Fancy Lads and they can't figure out why is an indisputable FACT. You have literally no argument to counter it short of calling the members of the institute liars which DESTROYS all the rest of your flimsy arguments about ANYTHING else related to synths since they are the source of ALL that data.

It's not a problem since the Fancy Lad Snack Cakes element has no proven cause (even if we assumed Binet had literally tested every synth). As a result we have no idea of its true connection to any particular synths. The observation could just be the result of the snack cakes tasting good.

You also haven't proven the Sole Survivor's experience to contradict it at all.

[Alucard †]

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Middle_Mountain_Cabins_terminal_entries#Pioneer_Scout_Advice

VATS exists. Confirmed in both 3 and 76.

Still nothing requiring a pipboy.

So VATS exists, and theres no dependency on being a synth. So it's use by the SS is not an indicator either way.

This only confirms that it's canon since 76.
Nothing in earlier games that acknowledges VATS both by its name and its functionality.

The "VATS being non canon game mechanic" thing i mendioned was before Fo4 was even a thing let alone 76.

EDIT:
Bethesda also likes to change certain minor details like Jet being Pre War drug.
And some timeline inconsitencies with the Power Armors

[fluxtorrent]

So still back to the "I choose not to believe the facts that don't conform to my narrative"

There's no discussion with the delusional.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

Which still leaves you with no conclusive argument that requires a pipboy for the SS to use VATS without being a synth.

The entire point of noting that VATS was used before receiving a Pipboy was to show the effect wasn't caused by the Pipboy. You're simply agreeing with that.

It leaves exactly one narrative explanation for having a VATS effect in Fallout 4: being a synth.

[fluxtorrent]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

Which still leaves you with no conclusive argument that requires a pipboy for the SS to use VATS without being a synth.

The entire point of noting that VATS was used before receiving a Pipboy was to show the effect wasn't caused by the Pipboy. You're simply agreeing with that.

It leaves exactly one narrative explanation for having a VATS effect in Fallout 4: being a synth.

And this is why Robert Downey said there was no coming back from it I guess.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

So still back to the "I choose not to believe the facts that don't conform to my narrative"

There's no discussion with the delusional.

If you mean the snack cakes, there's no need to agree or disagree, since you haven't demonstrated any mismatch between the Sole Survivor's opinion of them and that of the synths observed by Binet.