Chems — WHY?

[Ellorien]

I never use chems. Never put a single point in the perk. Rationale: why use chems when you can easily win without them? Why waste points on the perk?
I can understand doing drugs for the sake of role-playing but other than that, I think this perk is pretty meh.
In my current playthrough I wanted to try something different for a change so I was thinking of using chems. Instead of just selling drugs as usual I started hoarding them in order to use them “when I really need a boost.” Even manufactured stuff like bufftats, blahblueblah and whatnot. Hmm… It looks like I never need that boost. And I never remember to use chems during combat anyway. It’s usually goes like, “oh crap, I forgot to take XYZ again!” So, after a while I stopped carrying chems. So much for “trying something different.”

The only chem I found somewhat useful in the beginning of the game was grape mentats because it allowed me to postpone maxing out Charisma. Now that Charisma is 10+1 (always have INT and Cha maxed out first) I certainly don’t need Grapes any longer.

I think that Chems might be useful only if the player wants to rush through the game and do everything on really low level. Otherwise, chems are useless, in my opinion.

[Sédrio]

Bufftats, Psycho-Jets, and Med-X, are probably the most useful chems in the game. Pop them whenever there's going to be a tough fight and they make it trivial, it's amazing. Even moreso early in the game as your guns and perks aren't that good, one psycho-jet can win you the fight with any gun. My Righteous Authority with that effect decimated everyone, and I didn't even have Science 2 yet.

And if you're falling into the trap of collecting every potion (skyrim)/chems without ever using them, just start using them even if it's not a fight that needs it. I did that one Cooke quest where you get a bunch of chems and I think I used all the psycho and jet before the 20hrs mark; you get 60 of each and there aren't that many strong enemies at that point. There are ways to get more so might as well use them when you can. If you're worried about chem withdrawal, get Chem Resistant to max. It's only two perk points for it.

Also, your stats can still increase beyond 10. You just can't put points directly into it, it has to come from buffs. So even if you have 10 intelligence, popping a Mentats for a +2 in int will work as intended. Similar with Charisma and alcohol, when you want a higher chance at speech checks, drink some booze. It will stack beyond 10.

[wesnef]

For me, it's the "never remember to use them" issue. I rarely use potions or consumables in any game, and I've been playing various flavors of RPGs for 30 years now.

Heck, I crafted up a huge stack of Orange Mentats for my Fallout 76 VATS character, have them on the favorite wheel, and I still never remember. And once a big fight is going, I'm too distracted.

So, in the end, it turns out the same way as every other game - just healing potions / stimpacks / etc.

[Ellorien]

Okay, I ran an experiment last night. Was deleting old saves and stumbled upon a save I made before confronting Senjin, I loaded it and replayed with chems. My char had grape mentats, jet and buffjet (?) in his inventory. Jet acts for 10 seconds. Buffjet — 15 seconds. So I decided to use buffjet.

I popped Grapes and entered the room. Senjin started talking. I told him that I don’t care about Kent, only about bounty. McCreedy LOVED that. After that I told Senjin to kill me first (red option). He said, “Kent, you are gonna watch how I kill your friend” (or something like that).
Shooting starts (nobody is paying attention to Kent). I take buffjet. Two steps, turn to the right, 2 shots with shotgun, the raider is down. Couple steps forward, turn to the left, 2 more shots, looks like the guy is going down but I don’t pay attention. One step forward, 4 shots, the what’s-her-name lieutenant is no more. Up a few stairs, 3 shots — Senjin bites the dust. Buffjet expires. There is another guy round the corner. 2 more shots. Dead. Kent is saved.

So, it took me 15 plus 3 seconds to kill the whole crew on one buffjet. Yes, I see why chems can be useful. It did not take me much longer to previously kill them all without it but it was fun. I agree.

[drunken.dx]

Originally posted by Ellorien:

I never use chems. Never put a single point in the perk. Rationale: why use chems when you can easily win without them? Why waste points on the perk?
I can understand doing drugs for the sake of role-playing but other than that, I think this perk is pretty meh.
In my current playthrough I wanted to try something different for a change so I was thinking of using chems. Instead of just selling drugs as usual I started hoarding them in order to use them “when I really need a boost.” Even manufactured stuff like bufftats, blahblueblah and whatnot. Hmm… It looks like I never need that boost. And I never remember to use chems during combat anyway. It’s usually goes like, “oh crap, I forgot to take XYZ again!” So, after a while I stopped carrying chems. So much for “trying something different.”

The only chem I found somewhat useful in the beginning of the game was grape mentats because it allowed me to postpone maxing out Charisma. Now that Charisma is 10+1 (always have INT and Cha maxed out first) I certainly don’t need Grapes any longer.

I think that Chems might be useful only if the player wants to rush through the game and do everything on really low level. Otherwise, chems are useless, in my opinion.

OP, do you know what letters RP in RPG mean?

[Ellorien]

You tell me. Then re-read the first few sentences in the post you quoted.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by drunken.dx:

OP, do you know what letters RP in RPG mean?

Doesn't everyone know they stand for "Rocket-Propelled"?

[drunken.dx]

Originally posted by Ellorien:

You tell me. Then re-read the first few sentences in the post you quoted.

Then you're an idiot who answered her own question.

Over half of perks are RP related.

Not every game has to have "reason" for using something.

Fun fact: in early FO games, having low INT was essentially gimping your toon since you did not get lots of skill points on level up.

Games actually had special conversation options for toon with low INT, and playing one was most fun playthrough I had of FO 1&2.

I'm ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sick of people who equalize fun with powergaming.

Drugs? Who cares if they are useful or not, it's nice to have that option in game.

[Zes]

Drugs? Who cares if they are useful or not, it's nice to have that option in game.

well, they have a point..

[DouglasGrave]

While there's certainly a roleplaying angle, the point of the perk (and the question being raised by this thread) is to address associated effects in terms of game mechanics.

[IvantheFormidable]

Originally posted by Ellorien:

Rationale: why use chems when you can easily win without them? Why waste points on the perk?

Med-X is incredibly useful on survival, especially with the buff to its duration. Jet can save your life in a pinch. Psycho can give you the damage boost you need to DPS down some enemy before they can kill you. These three drugs can keep you going in situations where you would otherwise be dead.

Are they necessary in later levels? Not really. But hitting a Med-x before travelling into a dungeon is never a bad idea, especially if it lasts for the whole dungeon.

As for the wasting perk points idea, that would make more sense in a FO3/NV situation where you have a limited number of levels, but that's not the case in FO4. Plenty of other perks are meh, so picking chemist over them is pretty easy for me.

Edit: Also, if we're going by "necessary to win" as the criteria for what is useful in-game, then we're going to throw out a whole lot more than just chems.

Originally posted by Ellorien:

“oh crap, I forgot to take XYZ again!”

OP, use hotkeys for your chems. Should get rid of that problem.

[SievertChaser]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by drunken.dx:

OP, do you know what letters RP in RPG mean?

Doesn't everyone know they stand for "Rocket-Propelled"?

Реактивная противотанковая

To use it against personnel is bourgeois decadence.

[IvantheFormidable]

Originally posted by dennis.danilov:

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Doesn't everyone know they stand for "Rocket-Propelled"?

Реактивная противотанковая

To use it against personnel is bourgeois decadence.

Isn't the р for ручной, not реактивный?
Edit: nevermind, forgot about the grenade itself.

[SievertChaser]

Originally posted by IvantheFormidable:

Originally posted by dennis.danilov:

Реактивная противотанковая

To use it against personnel is bourgeois decadence.

Isn't the р for ручной, not реактивный?
Edit: nevermind, forgot about the grenade itself.

That's before you realize that there's a separate RPG line of hand-thrown anti-tank grenades.

[ErzPaladin]

Originally posted by drunken.dx:

Originally posted by Ellorien:

You tell me. Then re-read the first few sentences in the post you quoted.

Then you're an idiot who answered her own question.

Over half of perks are RP related.

Not every game has to have "reason" for using something.

Fun fact: in early FO games, having low INT was essentially gimping your toon since you did not get lots of skill points on level up.

Games actually had special conversation options for toon with low INT, and playing one was most fun playthrough I had of FO 1&2.

I'm ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sick of people who equalize fun with powergaming.

Drugs? Who cares if they are useful or not, it's nice to have that option in game.

Maybe Fallout has become a bit too sandbox over the years. It has lost its own course.

Then again: if it was only for the role-playing aspect, why ammo-weight in survival? That kinda forces you to invest into Strength- and/or weight-increasing/supporting perks. And even then it drastically decreases your looting- and ammo-carrying options.

I mean sry, but normal difficulty is a bit dull over all. You don't even understand, why food and water actually exists in this game. On normal difficulty you just need medikits. You can eat food and drink water, but it feels dull overall. That general concept feels incomplete.
But why didn't Bethesda solve that better? Why does food/water only make sense on survival or ultra hard? There you even need water to balance out chems to some degree. That doesn't make the role-playing aspect any better. That just feels weird - like the entire game does. I mean, the storyline feels dull and meaningless, too. It's like Bethesda wanted to create a base- or rather settlement-building game, instead of a story-driven RPG right from the beginning.

[Zes]

I played non-survival a few times.

No ammo weight breaks roleplay more. Carrying all thosr thousands of bullets, fatmans rockets.. and jumping like a bunny.