What's your honest opinion about the Brotherhood of steel in fo4?

[Yves Saint Laurent]

bad or good guys?

[dr.rosenrosen]

Originally posted by noahinigom:

To them ghouls and supermutants are a disgrace but there are good ghouls like Daisy or Hancok good supermutants like Strong or Erickson and good synths like Nick and Danse. They think their doing good by cleansing the commonwealth but they don't even help the people there. That's why I joined the Railroad.

ffs. is the computer you are typing on "good" or "bad". do you worship toasters?

[Von Faustien]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

I find it ironic most people hate the BOS because of their own bad interpretation and misinformation.

Originally posted by Von Faustien:

no the lone wanderer beat the enclave with the help of dr Li without them the bos would have wiped out and unable to get liberty prime working.

As I said before you should trying actually playing Fallout 3 sometime. The Enclave destroys Liberty Prime before the final fight.

yes and the lone wanderer has to build those lazy asses a counter to the vertabirds with no bos backup and basicly solos all of adams airforce base before Lyons pride shows up last second to steal the glory.

[Von Faustien]

lets look at the bos leaders

Roger maxon betrays his country over the dangers of fev than leaves the fev intact and unatended leading to mutant wildlife and directly causing the rise of the master and a existensial threat to humanity

Maxon 2 died well fighting tribal raider thinking his awesome power armor was arrow proof. it was but turns out it only protects what it covers and he didnt wear a helmat

the bos under Rombus finds a super mutant writes it off as a none issue and ignores the problem. when someone shows up asking about the rampaging mutant army they send them on a suicide mission and dont check up on the FEV tanks theyve ignored for the past several decades

intergame enclave decides to use the mutant army as an excuse to banish the disident and sends the people with ideas about leadership and outside requritment on a suicide mission to chase the fleeing remains of the masters army east leading to the event of tactics and setting up a powerfull rival to the mainline bos and depleating the limited forces they have

fallout 2 era enclave ignores the enclave beside asking a lone tribel to steal vertabird plans and ttelling them about a boat. They also go back to ignoring marisopa which is the direct cause of the enclave gaining fev for use in the curing bioweapon causing a existential threat to the wastland

intergame Bos sends a mass force east depleating the limited numbers in the west.

fallout 3 has a civil war which leaves both side weak and losing ground to the wastland and is utterly inept against the enclave and super mutants only finding the fev source because of the lone wanderer and only beating back the enclave because an outsider dr li fixed liberty prime for them and after losing prime relys on the lone wander with no suport to build a new counter to the vertabird and carry out the assult on the enclave stronghold at adams airforce base

intergame bos. the west coast chapter decides that dispite sending large chunks of troops east twice that they should use size control of enclave tech caputured by the NCR at navaro. their reasoning is we have better tech than the ncr so we can win. This is the same ncr that only has said tech because they beat the enclave which are better equiped than the BOS.

New vegas bos. a beaten shell with no alies and little supplies hiding in a bunker when a member brings up the fact they have to adapt or die the elder says I know but were not changing. they also caused the both the events of dead money and old world blues causing two exitential threats to the wasteland in the form of eligha useing the cloud as a weapon on the ncr, vegas and legion and bringing the fact the outside still exists to the think tank

fallout launches an invasion across the country using a hydrogen filled airship that only travels at low altitude based on dubious info in an anti AI crusade which given the bos has used AI in the past makes little sense. said airship was built by destroying one of 5 major setlments in the DC area for the reactor it needed and given of the remaining setlments 1 was a slaver camp and one was ghouls means its likely megaton and maybe tenpenny tower are all thats left. they also after taking what is outside the Zetans and think tank the most advance tech in fallout nuke it instead of just shutting down the synth division and useing the rest which is stupid.


the BOS are idiots

[Iron Knights]

How is eradicating feral nests & supermutant bastions not helping the commonwealth ???

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Von Faustien:

lets look at the bos leaders
Roger maxon betrays his country over the dangers of fev than leaves the fev intact and unatended leading to mutant wildlife and directly causing the rise of the master and a existensial threat to humanity.

Wrong. Maxson deserted because the chain of command above him were complicit with the FEV experiments. Maxson did not betray the country.

Mariposa was not the only FEV experiment and not the only source of the FEV.

Originally posted by Von Faustien:

intergame bos. the west coast chapter decides that dispite sending large chunks of troops east twice that they should use size control of enclave tech caputured by the NCR at navaro. their reasoning is we have better tech than the ncr so we can win. This is the same ncr that only has said tech because they beat the enclave which are better equiped than the BOS.

Wrong again.
NCR went to war with the BOS because they wanted the Enclave tech to "defend themselves."
BOS did not want the NCR to have the Enclave tech to prevent them from conquering territory.
Both sides chose to fight that war.

Originally posted by Von Faustien:

... they also caused the both the events of dead money...

Wrong Again.

After the fall of HELIOS One, Father Elijah, formerly an elder of the Mojave Brotherhood of Steel, set out to find new weapons to eradicate the NCR, and in the process, he discovered the Sierra Madre.

Originally posted by Von Faustien:

...said airship was built by destroying one of 5 major setlments in the DC area for the reactor it needed ....

Wrong again. There is absolutely no mention of Rivet City being destroyed by the BOS.

Originally posted by Von Faustien:

the BOS are idiots

They are only perceived as idiots by people who can not pay attention to the actual lore instead of their own misinformed interpretations.

[Von Faustien]

So other FEV sources existing on the east coast matters how? it was the marisopa ones the bos knew about and ignored that were the cause on the master and enclave bioweapon

the NCR took navaro to remove the enclave threat the bos ignored in fallout 2 and the bos attacked them to take the enclave tech they started the war not the ncr

Elijah going rouge taking BOS material and using BOS info is still on the BOS they even try "and fail" to stop him so BOS comand clearly see's it as their fault

Danse only refers to rivet city in a past tense as in it used to be a settlment in the capital wastland not that it is as of fallout 4 and its outright stated in game that they took the reactor for the prydwin from a derilict aircraft carrier in DC they wreck rivet city. hell in fallout 3 they can even end up attacking megaton depending on how the cult quest goes if you fail a speech check they waste the gategaurds asking for more water because the bunglers gave it to a cult so why you'd deny the bos attacking setlments is beyond me.

the BOS are a idiotic blight

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

The BOS came to the Commonwealth on an expedition to try salvaging and securing old tech along with investigating an energy signature (The Molecular Teleporter.) Danse's team was the third team, Brandis's team was the second, and the first made it back to DC safely.

Brandis's team was wiped out. Which from a lore standpoint (not game mechanic) that would take a very heavy hostile force to wipe out such a team. Which basically by wiping that team out they basically send up a giant neon flag attracting attention.

So basically the Institute's violent and evil ways brought their destruction upon themselves. It was the Institute who gave reason for the BOS to come to the Commonwealth to put an end to the violent abuse of technology.

It's unlikely that the Institute was responsible for the ambush of Brandis' team, given that there's no mention of the attackers being synths or any sound of laser fire on the battlefield holotape where they scuttle their power armour.

The energy signatures are the Institute's responsibility, and did lead to them having to blow the Prydwen out of the sky. But that's the Brotherhood's own hypocritical ways bringing destruction on themselves. The Brotherhood were shot down by the giant nuclear-equipped war machine they resurrected in defiance of their own standards.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by The Inept European:

The farmers might be homeschooling but you seriously think the raiders and supermutants are? And yet the supermutants issue written orders to each other.

The super mutants would presumably have learnt reading and writing as regular humans before they were mutated.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

That synth could not have been recruited into the brotherhood by official channels. In accordance with their traditions (which they follow religiously), the BOS is not in the habit of recruiting outsiders. The player gets special privileges for plot reasons. But as for the rest of their members, they were born and raised into the Brotherhood.

They haven't always recruited outsiders, but it would be far from the first time they did so, and no other Brotherhood member contradicts the synth's story.

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Gen 3 Synths were created to infiltrate society and replace already existing people. That synth member was a copy of an actual BOS member who was probably abducted while on a mission and then disposed of once his copy was ready to take over. The real paladin was dead, and the thing that took his place was a sleeper cell agent who could be turned against them at any moment, should The Institute decide to flip the switch.

The Gen 3 synths were created as an improvement on Gen 2 synths, but they're a general-use tool. Infiltration is only one of their many uses for the Institute, and not a major one.

There's no evidence of the synth in question being a sleeper agent. It's likely that it was a synth mindwiped by the Railroad or a similar group and recruited by the Brotherhood purely by chance.
The two claims (of not being a recruited outsider, and being a sleeper agent) are also obviously incompatible, since a sleeper agent wouldn't be using a blatantly incorrect backstory to attract attention and give itself away, so at least one of the two must be incorrect.

[Old Cat 🐱]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

The BOS came to the Commonwealth on an expedition to try salvaging and securing old tech along with investigating an energy signature (The Molecular Teleporter.) Danse's team was the third team, Brandis's team was the second, and the first made it back to DC safely.

Prydwen and all BOS forces arrived because Danse confirmed the existance of true AI. Not to collect old tech, and not because some raiders wiped out Brandis's team, but to destroy the AI. I highly doubt Prydwen would arrived if synths had no AI, because BOS doesn't care about Mechanist for example, never ever mentioning her and her quite deadly robots (arguably more deadly than synths).

[DouglasGrave]

One bit of weirdness from Elder Maxson is when he says (separate from the matter of synths described as the purpose of their arrival to the troops) that the Brotherhood came to the Commonwealth because Danse detected a unique energy reading. He says:

"According to our scribes the reading indicated a level of technology that only the Institute could achieve."

Why did they need an energy signature to show them anything if they already knew the Institute could achieve that level of technology?

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Old Cat 🐱:

Prydwen and all BOS forces arrived because Danse confirmed the existance of true AI..

That is absolutely false. I told you once before why it was wrong, You refused to go read the lore for yourself. Yet here you are back trying to claim the same brahminshit theory a second time without a single shred of proof.

A simple test that proves your brahminshit theory wrong.
If the player walks up and kills Danse upon first meeting him or completely ignores him.
Then Danse does not communicate with the Prydwen because the radio relay was never fixed.
The Prydwen shows up anyways.

Even then, here is the quotes from the wiki itself.

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Recon_Squad_Artemis
Following the success of another recon squad four years prior, Recon Squad Artemis, led by Paladin Brandis, was sent to investigate the Commonwealth for technology and information in 2284.
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Steel_(East_Coast)
Three years later, Recon Squad Gladius entered the region also looking for technology and valuable documents.
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Recon_Squad_Gladius
Following the loss of Recon Squad Artemis, Recon Squad Gladius was formed, under the command of Paladin Danse, to investigate the Commonwealth

Not a single mention of looking for AI. Only one of the entries even mentions the Institute.

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

The energy signatures are the Institute's responsibility, and did lead to them having to blow the Prydwen out of the sky.

1. There is no decision on the canon ending. So you are stating yet another one of your hypothetical opinions, not actual facts in the lore.
2. Use some common sense. Bethesda is not going to write off the BOS they are too symbolic to the franchise as they have been the canon winner every time so far.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

The energy signatures are the Institute's responsibility, and did lead to them having to blow the Prydwen out of the sky.

1. There is no decision on the canon ending. So you are stating yet another one of your hypothetical opinions, not actual facts in the lore.
2. Use some common sense. Bethesda is not going to write off the BOS they are too symbolic to the franchise as they have been the canon winner every time so far.

1. No more than you stating the Institute was destroyed by the Brotherhood. Maybe you shouldn't object to hypothetical opinions if you're presenting them yourself.

2. Use some common sense. The Brotherhood's ongoing existence doesn't depend on Maxson's forces or the Prydwen, and the Brotherhood has canonically lost in lore clashes before, like their battle against the NCR (prior to the events of New Vegas).

In Fallout 4 they've also lavished special extra attention on the destruction of the Prydwen, giving multiple different ways for it to be destroyed, and even allowing it to be destroyed if the Brotherhood wins the clash against the Institute. No matter what ending you choose, the destruction of the Prydwen is always on the table.

[DouglasGrave]

Regarding the Brotherhood's reasons for coming to the Commonwealth, from Elder Maxson's comments on it, we can conclude that they already knew about both Gen 3 synths and the Institute's general technology level independent of Danse reporting anything.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Maybe you shouldn't object to hypothetical opinions if you're presenting them yourself.

If only you took your own advice you would have almost nothing to post.

Like this for instance, it is nothing but more of your hypothetical opinion.

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Regarding the Brotherhood's reasons for coming to the Commonwealth, from Elder Maxson's comments on it, we can conclude that they already knew about both Gen 3 synths and the Institute's general technology level independent of Danse reporting anything.

Prove it. You brought it, you claim it happened. Show the proof the BOS came to the Commonwealth because they knew all about synths.

Good luck with that considering i just posted multiple sources from the wiki and not a single one of them even mentioned anything about synths for a reason why the BOS came to the Commonwealth.

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

No matter what ending you choose, the destruction of the Prydwen is always on the table.

I just got finished telling you the canon ending is not written, you even quoted it.

Yet here you are trying to make an argument something is canon. Maybe you should go look up the definition of canon. You seem to be struggling with the concept of that word.