Why fallout new vegas was terrible game and worse than fallout 4

[Von Faustien]

it seems some people on this forum are under the the imperssion that fallout new vegas is a better game than fallout 4 well im here to destroy this claim. Now well its true fallout 4 failed as an RPG fallout new vegas failed on every level so it by definition cant be better.

1 the bugs and technical aspects

Fallout new vegas to this day even after patches remains the least stable and most bug ridden of both the modren 3D bethesda games and the fallout franchise as a whole which given the state of fallout 1 and 2 as well bethesda's releases is a remarkably hard thing to pull off. It has more crashes, more save file coruption issues and more bugs than other fallout or elder ecrolls game ive played. noteworthy issues include corupting parts of the hard drive itself and rendering sections unreadable and save files on the PS3 version become unplayable after a long amount of hours rendering a full completion of the game impossible as saves over 100 hours become unplayable due to rampent crashing and single digit frame rates.

Now a common defense of these issues is for the obsdian fan boys to blame bethesda for the short development time on the grounds fallout 3 and 4 both had longer dev cycles. well at face value this may make sense the fact is unlike fallout 3 and 4 which required massive engine overhauls and groundwork to be built new vegas is at its core a conversion mod of fallout 3 and as such most of its design work was done before the game started production. Setting aside the actually programing work even the story and plot of new vegas was partially finshed before Obsdian started work as most of the core background and plot elements were lifter right from the design documents for the interplay versions of fallout 3 (vaun buren) and fallout 4. in fact when interviwed by RPG codex Chris Avolone lead writter for not only fallout new vegas but every Obsidian game worth mentioning laid the issues with fallout new vegas squarly at the feet of obsdian pointing out bethesda actully offered a extension on the project which was turned down. Even stting aside Avolone its a know fact that Obsdian has a reputation for a culuster ♥♥♥♥ dev cycle going back to the creation of fallout 2 and the black isle days. When taken alongside the likes of Alpha protocol, Kotor 2 , dungeon siege 2, POE and Tyranny all of which suffered form similar techinacal issues the idea they were screwed over by the publisher in every case starts to ring hollow as the one common factor in these games is Obsdian itself and POE and POE2 were self funded and published. (well POE was self funded Deadfire embezeled the money paradox paid to fund tyranny alegedly)

2 map and level design

have you ever noticed that new vegas seems to reuse a lot of dungeons? well its true bethesda games tend to use a handfull of tilesets for its dungeons im not talking about that im talking Dragon age 2 level cave clones. i can enter a coyote den near prime a death claw infested cave up north or any other number of caves and aside from diffrent inhabitants the caves the same and not in the all subways in fallout 3 used the same tile set same but everything about the interior map is the same aside from loot and hostiles. dragon age 2 got hammered for this ♥♥♥♥ and rightly so and new vegas is the same.

World map design open world games live and die based on the world maps and new vegas has one of the worst I've seen large expanses of the interior map are blocked with invisible walls preventing the player from freely crossing the wastland. small hill inclines your character can climb with no issue in some areas are impassable in others forcing backtracking aroundto the set canyons and chokepoints the developers want you to take. well true other bethesda games used invisble walls they were only at map boundries not used to force players around certian paths on the maps supposed playble space and well skyrim did use mountians to route players they were barriers that made sense and they lack any invisble walls meaning if a player really wanted they could climb them. Map layout of the various faction bases in new vegas also pokes some rather massive holes in the story telling but ill cover that in my next point.

Now the primary motive stated in game for all three factions is that they want the hover dam, the NCR and House for power and the legion to move troops. none of these reasons make a lick of sense given what we see in game and what the lore established in prior games. House not only has the vault 21 power plant but a fusion reactor beneth the lucky 38 given the hover dam is a relic from the 1930's and barely functional I find it odd its power output actully matters on a large scale given house has 2 far closer and more easily protected reactors that were built for modren power consumption.

The NCR as shown in fallout 2 has the abillity to make its own fusion reactors, laser defense grides and has full blown industrial capabillities none of which are show in new vegas. the excuse for this is that its all back west and they dont have it because they over extended but they only overextended to get the dam which they dont need because the ♥♥♥♥ they have back west makes its power pointless particularly given they suposedly cant get a water driven 19390's dynamo working and its stuck barely functional and well its hilarious they rely on mr fantastic to get helios 1 back on line a faction thats just bellow the brootherhood tech wise shouldnt need outside help on aiming mirrors and fixing turbines.

the legion suposedly needs the dam to move troops and as such has launched to frontal assults on a heavily fortifed narrow chokpoint which both in the intial battle and second battle went way better than it should have. charging a fortifed postion with a largely melee equiped force should have gone like Rorkes drift except worse for the legion because unlike the british the ncr has automatic weapons. now im aware some legion members have guns but so did some of the Zulu and WW1 shows how well mass infantry charges work on entrenched forces. (they dont unless you have heavy air and artilery support) forget the ncr needing to blow up a town the legion never would have it to the dam at all.

But lets see how much the legion even needs the dam by looking at the wars progress without its capture. the legion has before the game starts removed every ncr military base bellow camp from play either by caputre like nelson or by destroying it outright with the exception of one ranger outpost which falls shortly after the player visits it, Camp Hope is on the verge of colapse via legion presser and camp mcaren is being harrased by fiends who are backed by legion support and has a spy who outside player intervention will criiple the ncr operation at mcaren and on the strip,the strip has 2 of the 3 major familes on the legion payroll and ready to size it on ceasers comand, the NCR refugee camp at bitter springs is assulted during boones personal quest and without the player would be destroyed. camp golf is mostly recruits. during the ending slide camp golf as well as the strip both suffer major legion assults before the dam is taken. combine this with the northren route out of good springs rendered impassable before the game this means the sole supply line to vegas is under if not direct legion control at the very least constant raids and harrasment due to the legion owning most postions west of nippton and south of camp hope. this means well not reflected in the story due to its ♥♥♥♥ writting vegas has no safe way for tourists to vist and the ncr and caravans has outside vertabird airlfits no stable supply line to the dam, vegas or any army camps. the legion as shown in game has without player action won before the game starts dam or no dam.

Aside from the issues with the dam another massive issue with the plot exists the pardon. the mailman after braking into the tops is granted a free reset on both ncr and legion reputaion. at this point its not only possible but likely the player has interfeared in both ncr and legion plans actions that could includ siding with escaped convicts to destroy an NCR base, wiping out multiple legion and ncr camps, destroying dozens of political schems like the legions use of the Khauns, white glove and Ghomora factions, killing the legions 3rd in command, openly sided with there sworn foe and various other actions. the get out jail free card for braking into the tops might make sense for some level of reputation reset but if youve gone to villifed before it happens youve done ♥♥♥♥ they shouldnt just forgive. well its stupid in both the ncr and legions cases the legions worse as your invited to meet face to face with ceaser told he need you o destroy houses robots and given back all your guns well deep inside the legions main base. Why didnt ceaser use his own loyal brainwashed men? he cant have them see modren tech dispite them seeing it all over across the wastland, why didnt he use benny? because benny looked shifty. I guess trusting the mailman killer of multiple legion camps, slayer of ceasers left hand man, merc for the NCR, emplyee of house to do it with no legion member verifying his work after. truly ceaser is the smartest and best written character in fallout.

Now the mailman is presented as blank slate hero with no set background in the base game and this was a choice I think that new vegas was improved by making. for the first time in a mainline fallout game you have no set background no family no ties to any faction before the game starts and it was great. Key word being was Lonesome road removes that and adds an impressive background to out intreped mailman. your no longer some no name courior now your a trusted and important NCR asset who was given a vital mission to deliver captured Enclave tech sized at navaro to the divide the site of a settlment which you helped build into a thriving comunity and that you cause the destruction of which triggers the entire politcal situation in the base game by letting the legion escape by closing off the northren ncr supply lines. this raises many many issues as the idea no one in the NCR know who you are after not only having been trusted with enclave tech but crippling the war effort defies explination both the legion and ncr scouts can tell if you kill a patrol in the wastland with not witnesses but they dont know you past history with them and the vast impact your actions at Hopeville caused?

now for the other lore nitpicks. first shown in broken steel the tesla canon was designed and made post war by lyons BOS members based on the liberty prim eye laser to serve as a counter for enclave air craft following primes loss. Opps nope now its a just a generic pre war energy weapon cause new vegas retconed that ♥♥♥♥ harder than Fallout 4 did the X01. the Khauns were completly wiped out in both fallout 1 and fallout 2 but suprise they get dug out of the waste bin again because we need a raider faction and finally useing the vipers or jakels properly doesnt fit our blatent nostalgia pandering. well were digging up dead factions for nostalgia wank value you know how how the followers a small lecoal group based in LA who Unity kills off in all of fallouts endings? well guess what not only are they still alive they caused the legion! Oh and lets reuse the NCR/BOS war idea from vaun buren even though it makes sense the bos would engage a war after sending a massive amout of troops east like the did before fallout 3 i mean just beacuse the new post interplay lore make that an even dumber idea than it was in vaun bruen doesnt mean we shouldnt just lazily reuse ♥♥♥♥ balck isle wrote years ago. In honest hearts legion players have no real pro legion option if im an agent of ceaser i should be able to work with his proxies and help them not be forced to side with the legions foes or just kill everyone and skip the DLC.

oh and some other nitpicks. Low IQ dialoge makes its return in vegas from the old games but unlike fallout 1 and 2 it was quarter assed and comes up rarely leading to to Courior going from normal speech to caveman talk mid conversation like there an Oblvion era begger changing vouice actors. i get dev time was tight but VTMB was made under far tighter constraints and made full game spaning conversation change for malkavians so im still mentioning it. gun runners arsenal adds duplicate weapons bacause of Obsidians half assed coding meaning a gun dispite being the same type a mod was made for cant use said mod bacause its not a GRA gun.

So in short fallout 4 may be a bad rpg but new vegas is not only a bad rpg but a bad game.

except oldworld blues and dead money those were awesome

[Bugscuttle]

I disagree.

[Three English Letters شازام]

I still have more fun in New Vegas.

[presto668]

What's it like, being so wrong?

[amolang]

TTW community is real cancer.

[Zotliatlicor]

Yes and No. Both are true.

[Tactix]

I remember when New Vegas came out and everyone said it was trash to FO3. Whenever the next one comes out this cycle will repeat. Grass is always greener.

[Chaosium]

NV was a great RPG but a terrible Fallout, it has to be said

[Von Faustien]

Oh forgot one


Helios 1 relies on mirrors to reflect sunlight to a boiler tower which operates a steam turbine not photo voltaic cells found in normal solar panels.


the boomers at nelis airforce base use the same panels helios uses as normal solar panels. is Obsidian so stupid they don't know the diffrence between a mirror and photovolatic panel?

the awnser is yes

[WC4L420]

Subjective but welcome.

My opinion is if only we combined fallout 3 and new vegas together itd be the best game ever.

[Vic Evicerator]

https://imgflip.com/i/4nvwdi

[Fumo Bnnuy n Frends]

tl;dr?

I ain't gonna be bothered to read all that eye sore wall of text non breaks ♥♥♥♥. At least add some more breaks or something.

but

i can already tell what the arguement points are probably




Anyhow

In terms of the game itself the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 3D games are all broken b/c of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ engines Bethesda made. Even with the BoS hack and slash game it's pretty obvious where the bad parts of the non old school fallouts came from. The upside of New Vegas is that even with all that ♥♥♥♥ present in 3 4 and 76 is it's actually fun. If you can by pass the crashes and ♥♥♥♥ you can enjoy the game content and lore setting.




FO:3

was okay. It was seen as the prototype for the engine before New Vegas but the story still sucked especially the ending. It was unfulfilling. DLC was pretty good with point lookout being peak better than most new vegas dlcs but collectively new vegas dlcs are better than the collective sum of FO:3 dlcs.

It was the first prototype 3D game so it gets a hard pass. Even though the lore was a bit lacking it was still pretty fun.





FO:4

was pretty bad for a fallout game. They broke lore and did a ton of horrid decisions for the base story. There are still a ton of bugs in-game. The other bad part is that the game lacks optimization and has a ton of performance issues if you don't use the exact specs used to make the game (even then it still sucks lol). Tbh no one would be AS MAD if they made it a standalone game. Instead of trying to make it a fallout game just name it something else like gone nuclear or some ♥♥♥♥. It's not bad in terms of building and open worldness.

Dlcs were okay with far harbor being peak or a reskinned point lookout. Automatron 2nd. Nuka world and vault 88 vault tech workshop felt empty missing. The others don't even bother with especially the pay to play dlc workshop dlc.



FO:76

literally needs no introduction it's been bad since launch and it's still bad now b/c Bethesda is the ones fixing it not people. Even with ♥♥♥♥ "fixed" or "patched" people are still finding ways around it and they actively ignore ♥♥♥♥ like hacked items and exploits. The other bad part is aside from the ♥♥♥♥ on the surface (MT's, irl bad products some deathly lethal, and ignoring the community) is that the game cannot be modded vs all previous single player games. It's a literal cash grab gone wrong showing extremely lazy development and lacking in any passion or drive.




i'm also forgetting another one

The mobile fallout Fallout: Shelter

it's a mobile game nuff said. However as a mobile game it's not really subject to game standards unless you play the version on PC (which you can ♥♥♥♥ around with the clock and just skip several days). Ironically it's also the most stable fallout Bethesda ever made.



FO:NV

for better or worse it's on par with 3. However the storyline is much more immersive and connects more to the original tabletop fallouts. It does have technical issues just like 3 and 4 but much less than 76. It's also made by the OG devs not Bethesda (well OG before they split now Obsidian has a ton of new employees especially in the writting department if you see how outer worlds turned out). The biggest thing they had was 18. 18 MONTHS!!!!

I'd honestly like to see Bethesda try to make a game in that time (well not 10-8 because half was used to market the game itself). They didn't have any prior experience with the engine neither so that's another thing to add to the list of why NV is a higher tier than most other fallouts Bethesda made.

Lastly was the console ports. On PC it was gonna have a ♥♥♥♥ ton more stuff and utems but they had to dumb it down for cobsole hardware at the time. This meant that they had to remove stuff and reduce the size of the game anyway they could.

It's like saying oh a guy made a very ♥♥♥♥♥♥ concrete house while the other guy made a very ♥♥♥♥♥♥ wooden house while the other guy had to shop his own wood and the 2nd guy was able to buy the parts for the concrete house.







tl;dr

fallout NV devs got screwed while Bethesda actually made the engines themselves and had more time and can't even fix their own current game. They had to piggy back of modders to fix it for years so now they don't have them they gotta do it themselves and failed or are failing.

I have no doubt if Obsidian (most of the original dev team not the new aged ones) did a New Vegas remake on the FO:4 engine then it'd instantly become another top seller more than FO: and defintely more than FO:76.



Side note: Idk if it's coincidence or some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ but Bethesda sets their games mostly in the East Coast while Obsidian West Coasts. In a way the West side of fallout has better quality while the East coast lacks and is more balls to the walls off the rails in the lore department.

[Bugscuttle]

I disagree. Vehemently.

[GoreTiger]

I made him so upset in the other post he went and wrote a giant TLDR post about it, lmao.

I especially love how the first few posts are telling OP he's wrong Lol.

Someone give OP his clown shoes.

[NecroMaster]

This is what I believe.

Fallout NV Vs Fallout 4

Combat <
Dialogue >
Character development system >
Story >
Less problems with glitches <
Faction system >

What one game had the other didn’t.
The karma system and the companion affinity system.

Personally I like both of these things.

If I had to choose one or the other I would want the karma system.
But I see no reason that both can’t be implemented.

[SpectorEuro]

Saying New Vegas was a bad RPG is probably the most laughable statement I've read in my entire life. And I have heard an actual individual trying to convince me that Earth is flat.