... so like... are we SUPPOSED to feel sorry for Synths?

[Mevvallanneous Bob]

While I have spent a... mass majority of the game ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ around, building settlements, and going on zany wasteland adventures, like, APPARENTLY Synths are supposed to be sympathetic. Am... am I missing something? My first introduction to them is them running up to me like jackasses with laser weapons. Is there a point where it's like "Ohhhhhhh, so the homicidal robots are PERFECTLY COOL!" or something? The normal robots are better than this, hahaha.

[Vagrant]

No, because they're programmed to pretend they feel something.

The Art vs Art random encounter with a high CHR and sided with the Institute shows that they know they are replacing humans.

Even ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Paladin Danse probably knows he's a synth, but everything he says about synth is "they are an abomination of nature and must be destroyed". Biggest hypocrite liar ever, I actually fell for his speech against the Institute and the synths...

[AC Denton]

You're SUPPOSED to feel whatever way you want given the factors of the game into consideration and making a concious decision based on your own judgement.

[casualsailor]

I don't feel sorry for the synths. But I do like them. Especially the Gen-4s. They have some interesting features. And yes... they vibrate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khNJKhipsYI

[Tesityr]

The 2000's and 2010's seem to be kind of like the 1980's were, with an increase in fascination with robots and how we can make them more human-like - complete with feelings and morality - the result being a strain on humankind's categorization of robots as "things", as the more 'human' they become, the more we must question where the boundaries lie between "item" and "person". As the boundary becomes blurred, we start to look at our own definitions of the terms and what they imply, and what they mean for humans as well, along with how we treat each other...

These concepts and associated emotions are what I think the developers were 'going for', to create attachment and internal conflict, in a player; for entertainment purposes and otherwise.

[danconnors]

Used to be an intelligent man was someone who could play a mean game of chess. That definition had to go when computers became able to beat every human on the face of the Earth at the game Needless to say the ability to do complicated math, and do it almost instantly, also had to be removed from the list of things that made an "intelligent" man.

Probably someone is already at work on a computer that can: write beautiful music, churn out excellent novels, perform a perfect heart surgery, drive a race car to first place every race, etc. As we desperately race to change the definition of intelligence, the only people we're fooling is ourselves. They're already there, folks.

I like to fight synths because they almost always carry better loot than low class humans like raider scum and gunner low ranks.

[BossGalaga]

There are numerous ways to play the game. You play the game morally or immorally. You can make decisions purely based off what choices you think will yield the best rewards. That may be subjective depending on your playstyle.

Railroad, Institute and BOS are all intentionally ambiguous. The Minutemen seem to simply have the goal of making a living, which while mundane isn't quite as inspiring as the goals of the other factions.

[Vinnie Mack]

i loved Nick. Hated the Underground. I felt sorry for the synths having their memories wiped so they could be free. To have your memory wiped seemed extreme. Being given someone elses memories felt like a violation of individuality. Why couldn't they just be helped without being mutilated? So i was a bit sympathetic to the synths wanting to be free. The machines trying to kill me illicited no feelings at all. They had the emotional relevance of an anvil falling on my head from the sky. Not hating on the anvil, not hating on gravity, just trying to get out of the way.

[zafire063]

Originally posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper:

No, because they're programmed to pretend they feel something.

The Art vs Art random encounter with a high CHR and sided with the Institute shows that they know they are replacing humans.

Even ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Paladin Danse probably knows he's a synth, but everything he says about synth is "they are an abomination of nature and must be destroyed". Biggest hypocrite liar ever, I actually fell for his speech against the Institute and the synths...

Danse DIDN'T know he was a Synth. The Institute claims he's "lost", so he probably found the RR and got his memories replaced. The RR does that so Synths will act normal, it allows them to blend into society without being noticed.

As Father and Justin Ayo explains, Synths are programmable and anything against that is a malfunction. This basically means one of two things..

The synths that replace people function as intended
OR
Since a very high number of synths do things they weren't programmed to do, it means they have free will.

Originally posted by Vinnie Mack:

i loved Nick. Hated the Underground. I felt sorry for the synths having their memories wiped so they could be free. To have your memory wiped seemed extreme. Being given someone elses memories felt like a violation of individuality. Why couldn't they just be helped without being mutilated? So i was a bit sympathetic to the synths wanting to be free. The machines trying to kill me illicited no feelings at all. They had the emotional relevance of an anvil falling on my head from the sky. Not hating on the anvil, not hating on gravity, just trying to get out of the way.

Because it's harder for the Institute to find someone who acts like an integrated part of society. They won't do anything suspicious that way. Not getting the memory wipe also puts the Railroad at risk, since the Synth will have valuable information on the Railroad.

[Vinnie Mack]

the logic makes sense, but it feels evil to me. To lose your memories to be free...it is like losing yourself. It would mean me not remembering my kids, my parents, my wife...i would rather be imprisoned or even killed than forget these people in my life. I like what Bethesda did with the underground, though. They are not good. They are grey. Just like all the other factions other than the Minutemen.

[Randox]

Ideally, the stances of all the factions should raise some doubts; the three warring factions in particular. If you can side with with a faction while believing 100% they are doing the right thing then you probably missed something. There is not supposed to be a clear cut right answer.

The railroad mindwipes can be viewed as murder, the institute may be guilty of slavery, while the Brotherhood preaches intolerance. All three demonstrate contempt in some capacity. (Point of clairification: gen 3 synths are based on human DNA. They have implants, but are not robots like other models).

[Vinnie Mack]

if the rest of the main quest was as well thought out and written as the factions, FAllout 4 would have had a much better story. I thought they did well on the faction part of the main quest. Just too bad the main story didn't live up.

[klesh]

Originally posted by Vinnie Mack:

i loved Nick. Hated the Underground. I felt sorry for the synths having their memories wiped so they could be free. To have your memory wiped seemed extreme. Being given someone elses memories felt like a violation of individuality. Why couldn't they just be helped without being mutilated?

This is answered in the RR line. They don't implant fake memories, they only wipe memories of synths so the synths cannot accidentally incriminate or reveal themselves once they're let free. Once the memory is wiped, even they wont know they're a synth.

Okay, I guess I made up that part. :P

[DouglasGrave]

The mindwipe isn't mandatory, but the Railroad very strongly recommends it, and it's not like the synths have all that much experience on which to base their judgement.

Additionally, given H2-22's holotape message about it, it seems like the experience of escaping the Institute, consequently being hunted by the SRB, and coming out into the devastated wasteland world is traumatic for a synth, which may make it easy to convince them to have the wipe so that their horrible recent memories go away.

The Railroad does seem to have high ideals, but it comes off a lot like them taking advantage of the vulnerable state of the escaped synths in order to give them mindwipes. They can't stand the synths being servants, but their willingness to destroy them as an individual in order to make them a better, happier individual ends up awfully close to the way the Institute itself treats synths as just tools. There's that same disregard for their current existence as a person.

The part I find especially bad is that the Railroad does this in the firm belief that they're working with sentient beings, while the Institute at least (rightly or wrongly) believes that it's only reprogramming the latest batch of fancy dolls.

[kaffekoppen]

The institute scientists argue that it's just programming, but the same argument could be made for humans -- it's just a "biological programming". Well, unless you can prove that humans have free will.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by kaffekoppen:

The institute scientists argue that it's just programming, but the same argument could be made for humans -- it's just a "biological programming". Well, unless you can prove that humans have free will.

Ultimately, that comes down to consciousness, rather than free will. Does the being in question have a genuine internal experience like a human does? If so, then it can genuinely experience suffering or enjoyment when harmed or helped and should be treated morally, if not, it might as well be a rock.

But there isn't currently a good way to identify consciousness (outside of each individual knowing when they have it by direct experience). We only know humans in general have it because they managed to come up with the idea, which would be bizarre and nonsensical to anyone who didn't experience it.

To test for consciousness, you'd need what I call an "Empty Room" test, where you isolate the subject from all memories and knowledge of consciousness, and see if they can come up with the idea on their own when given the appropriate context (because in the absence of preexisting knowledge of the concept, forming the idea then must come from their own internal experience of consciousness).