Synths in the railroad are actually human?

[Justin_760]

Possible spoilers?

So of all the "synths" in the railroad, none have synth components. Ive heard theres an exception to this, theres supposed to be some other synth in the game that also doesnt have one. But it seems unlikely that its dev "oversight" considering the fact that the synths that you help/rescue with the railroad DO have components on themselves.

There are numerous other indications like how the railroad "synth" members dont have higher resistences shown in VATS with awareness perk. Every synth has much higher resistences, but the railroad ones only have the values provided by their armor, for example Glory only has 51/86 ballistic and energy res while wearing the railroad heavy armor, which is suspiciously low.

Also in the creation kit, the railroad synths dont have the race of synth noted, which I guess is the tool the devs used to make the game. Someone found this while poking around in creation kit. Below is the original post.

"It's not a bug. She was intentionally not made a synth. In the creation kit, she does not have the race of synth (though wiki says otherwise, it is incorrect) she does not share any synth templates, even though other more human synths do, she does not have a synth death item set, nor a synth component in her inventory."

Also Glory's story about her time inside the institute is suspicious. She says she was doing synth production, but it doesnt make any sense that the institute would use their super advanced Gen 3's on petty labor like synth production. Also the synth production area inside the institute does not have any Gen 3's working, there are only Gen 2's. She is evasive and vague while talking about it, and it just didnt add up.

Any opinions? Anyone have info to back this up or info to poke holes in this theory? Id really love to have a clear idea of this whole thing, I love the lore in this game.

Update:

A few more pieces of evidence, she mentions she was on surface duty for scavenging, "combing over ruins" for salvage, yet there is no evidence of Gen 3's EVER being used for such, and we only ever see Gen 1's and sometimes Gen 2's in pre-war ruins. Its highly unrealistic for the Institute to use their most advanced and high tech synths for peon manual labor that their inept robots can do just fine.

Synths require NO sleep, yet Glory sleeps every night, right next to the human agents in Railroad HQ.

She is supposedly the only synth to have refused the memory wipe, coincidental but still suspicious.

She claims g5-19 was a good friend of hers, recalls her as "solid" yet there are NO G designations for synths in the Institute. This is a particularly large hole in her whole story, and this one stands out as the biggest red flag. Shes basically like Deacon, constantly lying and making stuff up to back up her absurd claims.

The only evidence of her being a synth are her own claims, which is hardly evidence. But the evidence against her being a synth is overwhelming, its almost one sided, so many more reasons to believe she's human than a synth.

[WildCat]

Same discussion all over again!

Ooookay, here's my 2 cents.
Beth devs are known for messing things up a lot. Douglas doesn't agree with me on that but for me it's a clear oversight they forgot to disable VATS until you put on that Pip-boy.
My opinion is pretty much same on synth components. First they try to be thorough to the point where they put synth components on essential NPCs (obviously you can't loot that component without mods/console commands but it is there for some reason) and then they don't put synth component on those who are confirmed to be synths). Again, there're other opinions but mine is that they just effed this up.

Now, there's a curious bit on synth lore that comes from Fallout 3. In Fallout 3 you can learn the story of A3-21 who fled to Capital Wasteland. A skillful scientist from Rivet City decided to help the Railroad and agreed to perform plastic surgery and do memory wipe on the synth. He successfully performed plastic surgery, extracted the synth component and gave the synth new memories but instead of wiping the synth's old memories he locked them and made a code for restoring them. If Lone Wanderer learns the code they can choose to unlock A3-21's original memory so he gets two sets of memories in his brain.
From this piece we can learn that synth component can be extracted by skilled specialist and it doesn't kill synth. Second, apparently synths can still accept commands without synth component.

By studying synth settlers one can learn that not all synth have innate resistances. I assume synth Art got some kind of subdermal plating or something else to boost his resistances.

Conclusion: there're synths in game that don't have innate resistances and don't drop a synth component, the latter can be an oversight or they could be indeed assembled without one intentionally or due to sabotage or malfunction of assembly line.

[DouglasGrave]

Messaggio originale di WildCat:

Beth devs are known for messing things up a lot. Douglas doesn't agree with me on that but for me it's a clear oversight they forgot to disable VATS until you put on that Pip-boy.

The problem with it as a line of reasoning is that you could justify anything if you explained away the inconsistencies as oversights.

Without an explicit statement from the developers that something was an oversight, you need blatant evidence of it (like visible glitches, or something being nonsensical no matter what explanation you try), especially when it's something that fits with a possibility hinted at by the game (by Institute terminals describing a direct equivalent, DiMA in Far Harbour suggesting precisely the same scenario, and the main story prominently featuring the concept of an original person being replaced by a synth).

[WildCat]

VATS is the least explained element of newer Fallouts. Apparently, Pip-boy 3000 and higher models include augmented reality functions. And surprisingly you don't even need some visor or anything to use it. If the Institute indeed managed to develop something similar to VATS why only Sole Survivor gets it's benefits? At least coursers could use it too but they are incapable to do several quick aimed shot over a short period of time. Then another questiuon: why doesn't Sole Survivor run into software conflict when trying to use assisted targeting or doesn't get two overlays - one projected by built in device and other projected by Pip-Boy?

As for DiMA, he isn't exactly a trustworthy source. He's an outdated prototype with questionable hardware installed on top of experimental hardware. What he seems to be interested in is preserving the community of synths he founded. He is ready to kill for his community so lies would be the lesser evil in this case. If DiMA is sincere when he talks about what can indicate that a person is a synths he still only makes some guesses and he guessed wrong with Kasumi. If you play as Nora your character also lies about her first memory, choosing certain dialogue options in the prologue leads to Nora's sarcastic reply that clearly shows she remembers the events that led to her pregnancy and birth of Shaun.

Btw, a DNA test can tell if a person is a synth or not. It is stated that Shaun's DNA was used as a base for Gen3 synths so getting samples from Nate and Nora (and Shaun, if possible) and then comparing them to a sample from a suspected person can give a clear answer without killing the suspected person.

[GoreTiger]

Messaggio originale di The Man Shad:

Messaggio originale di Myth:

the game i played...Glory did not have a synth component on her when she died...so....

The game "you" played, and not all synths have synth components like Warwick.
Glory even states that she's a synth, and in her death item list is a synth component.

To be fair just because someone says they are, doesn't 100% mean they are. The Sole Survivor can be fooled into believing he's a synth too.

[DouglasGrave]

Messaggio originale di WildCat:

VATS is the least explained element of newer Fallouts. Apparently, Pip-boy 3000 and higher models include augmented reality functions. And surprisingly you don't even need some visor or anything to use it. If the Institute indeed managed to develop something similar to VATS why only Sole Survivor gets it's benefits? At least coursers could use it too but they are incapable to do several quick aimed shot over a short period of time. Then another questiuon: why doesn't Sole Survivor run into software conflict when trying to use assisted targeting or doesn't get two overlays - one projected by built in device and other projected by Pip-Boy?

According to the Institute's material, their version is an improvement that can be applied to some Gen 3 brains, but not all of them.

As for conflicts, given that it's a mental effect (at least for the Institute VATS) allowing the user to effectively visualize the chances of hitting, the Sole Survivor would just end up combining the overlapping sources of information. Of course, the Pipboy's VATS might not even be working; it's not like you'd notice the absence if you already had the required function from a different source.

Messaggio originale di WildCat:

As for DiMA, he isn't exactly a trustworthy source. He's an outdated prototype with questionable hardware installed on top of experimental hardware. What he seems to be interested in is preserving the community of synths he founded. He is ready to kill for his community so lies would be the lesser evil in this case. If DiMA is sincere when he talks about what can indicate that a person is a synths he still only makes some guesses and he guessed wrong with Kasumi. If you play as Nora your character also lies about her first memory, choosing certain dialogue options in the prologue leads to Nora's sarcastic reply that clearly shows she remembers the events that led to her pregnancy and birth of Shaun.

It's not just about DiMA's validity as an in-game source, but the fact that the idea of the player potentially being a synth is already defined as an in-game possibility (along with people secretly being synths already being a core part of the main story). This provides a scenario in which a subtle hint that the player could be a synth (with VATS before getting a Pipboy) exists in an environment where the idea of being a synth is already entrenched. Something that hints at a possibility the game already obviously supports as a concept is not "clearly" an oversight in the same way as a concept that otherwise didn't exist in the story.

Whether or not Nora is lying about (or forgetting) earlier events isn't especially important here, since a synth copy would similarly have those memories. And DiMA was addressing the generally incomplete nature of the Sole Survivor's memories, not just the details of a particular event. A proper rebuttal of DiMA's point would have involved the Sole Survivor showing him that they had a clear and extensive memory of their life.

Messaggio originale di WildCat:

Btw, a DNA test can tell if a person is a synth or not. It is stated that Shaun's DNA was used as a base for Gen3 synths so getting samples from Nate and Nora (and Shaun, if possible) and then comparing them to a sample from a suspected person can give a clear answer without killing the suspected person.

Synths have individual DNA, which is how the Brotherhood of Steel identifies Danse as a synth using the Institute records we retrieve. They look at the records and find that their subject matches the specific DNA records for one of the listed synths. If synths all had identifiable synth DNA, the Brotherhood would have already been able to reliably test for synths.

Shaun's DNA was studied for the developement of Gen 3 synths, but they're not simply clones of his DNA.

[GoreTiger]

There are a FEW slight ways to figure out who is, and isn't a synth.

For example: if you suspect someone being a synth, feed them fancy lad snack cakes. Alot of them. For a couple of months.

Not only do synths for some reason LOVE fancy lads, But according to institute logs, they can't get fat off them.

So if you got somebody locked up, feeding them high suger fancy lads for 2-3 months and they havent put on a bunch of pounds, Their likely a synth.
Not foolproof but deff something to build off of.

Another thing is something covenent built off of: Apparently synths have trouble answering some manners of alghorithisms.


Third, and most extreme, Would be to simply cut down to the bone and Examine it. Synth bones are synthetic and not actually made of bone. so if you sliced open someone's arm and examined the bone structure, you could tell.


And lastly, it isn't suggested in-game, But with the knowledge that synths carry a kind of component ether in their heads or spine, I'd design a device that can detect those components. Kind of like a metal dectector but for synth components.

[< blank >]

or.........................................just hear me out.................................................shoot them dead

[DouglasGrave]

Messaggio originale di KrayToast:

So if you got somebody locked up, feeding them high suger fancy lads for 2-3 months and they havent put on a bunch of pounds, Their likely a synth.
Not foolproof but deff something to build off of.

"My girl loves eating snack cakes, but never seems to get fat. You know who does that? A synth!"

Messaggio originale di KrayToast:

Another thing is something covenent built off of: Apparently synths have trouble answering some manners of alghorithisms.

That's basically like what Covenant is trying out.

Messaggio originale di KrayToast:

Third, and most extreme, Would be to simply cut down to the bone and Examine it. Synth bones are synthetic and not actually made of bone. so if you sliced open someone's arm and examined the bone structure, you could tell.

I'm almost certain this one wouldn't work. While they may be synthetic, it's apparently close enough to a regular human to pass microscopic examination by the Brotherhood of Steel, who has at least enough technical expertise to perform DNA tests.

Messaggio originale di KrayToast:

And lastly, it isn't suggested in-game, But with the knowledge that synths carry a kind of component ether in their heads or spine, I'd design a device that can detect those components. Kind of like a metal dectector but for synth components.

It might be possible, depending on the exact nature of the component, though some synths don't appear to have one.

You would also have to hope that it also isn't made undetectable by some kind of special phase shift or something (out of which it only emerges when the synth is killed), since it's built by the same people who developed the molecular relay.

[Shad]

Messaggio originale di KrayToast:

Messaggio originale di The Man Shad:

The game "you" played, and not all synths have synth components like Warwick.
Glory even states that she's a synth, and in her death item list is a synth component.

To be fair just because someone says they are, doesn't 100% mean they are. The Sole Survivor can be fooled into believing he's a synth too.

Get that terrible theory outta here, or you'll meet the swatta.

[DouglasGrave]

Messaggio originale di The Man Shad:

Messaggio originale di KrayToast:

To be fair just because someone says they are, doesn't 100% mean they are. The Sole Survivor can be fooled into believing he's a synth too.

Get that terrible theory outta here, or you'll meet the swatta.

There's pre-Pipboy VATS for the Sole Survivor, evidence that the Institute can put an equivalent of that technology in synths, and people being replaced with synths is already a major theme in the game. It's not bad as a theory.

[< blank >]

while a fake human may be hard to pick due to the level of fakeness......unless their teflon they would pick up particals that would denote their parth across the comminweath and what they have been in contact with .............Aka use a fucin dog .

[DouglasGrave]

Messaggio originale di nd:

while a fake human may be hard to pick due to the level of fakeness......unless their teflon they would pick up particals that would denote their parth across the comminweath and what they have been in contact with .............Aka use a fucin dog .

It's an interesting approach, but how would you distinguish a synth from someone who has simply being hanging around in the same place as synths?

Depending on how the molecular relay works, there's also a possibility that it does sanitize travellers of stray particles (not that I think this is necessarily done deliberately to foil tracking).

[< blank >]

Messaggio originale di DouglasGrave:

Messaggio originale di nd:

while a fake human may be hard to pick due to the level of fakeness......unless their teflon they would pick up particals that would denote their parth across the comminweath and what they have been in contact with .............Aka use a fucin dog .

It's an interesting approach, but how would you distinguish a synth from someone who has simply being hanging around in the same place as synths?

Depending on how the molecular relay works, there's also a possibility that it does sanitize travellers of stray particles (not that I think this is necessarily done deliberately to foil tracking).

or the relay would single them out more with it's oun rezadue .....kill one synth get the chip......give it to a tracking dog ..........job done.....beer o'clock time......

[DouglasGrave]

Messaggio originale di nd:

Messaggio originale di DouglasGrave:

It's an interesting approach, but how would you distinguish a synth from someone who has simply being hanging around in the same place as synths?

Depending on how the molecular relay works, there's also a possibility that it does sanitize travellers of stray particles (not that I think this is necessarily done deliberately to foil tracking).

or the relay would single them out more with it's oun rezadue .....kill one synth get the chip......give it to a tracking dog ..........job done.....beer o'clock time......

Possibly, though it seems more like a means of transporting things than something that has a residue of its own. I assume the bloody-looking flash we sometimes get with it is as a result of being reassembled after our molecules are relayed.

It's going to be difficult to train the dog though, since you need reliable samples for that, and we're not just talking about detecting a specific substance as you might with a drug-sniffing dog. I mean, are you going to have the dog randomly maul people to death and reward it every time one of them has a synth component?

[< blank >]

dogs are fun to train ......and yes just like sniffing dog....that why you would need a chip/componeate