Fallout 4 Modding: Stability Tips? (Solved)

[SilentAegis]

Hello, all! I've managed to (somewhat accidentally) create a heavily modded, yet stable load order of Skyrim and now I am attempting to do so with Fallout 4. I'd like to make it as crash and bug free as possible while knowing that a 100% stable game with a lot of mods is extremely unlikely. Still, I'd like to try regardless.

I've noticed that Fallout 4 has less advice and tools out there online to help with game stability than it does Skyrim (for example, there is no Crash Fixes-esque mod for Fallout 4 that I can find), so while I research, I'm hoping somebody here with experience in modding this game will tell me something I don't know. Here's everything I know so far:

I use MO2.
I use LOOT, however sorting manually in accordance to the load order tips provided by mod authors in their descriptions is supposed to yield better results and I plan to do so if necessary.
I use FO4Edit, but my experience with it goes as far as cleaning files.
I plan to get an SSD since it has been stated numerous times that SSDs make the game much faster.
Adding and removing mods in the middle of a play-through can invite problems, but removing them is harder to fix, especially for mods with scripts. It is possible to "clean" saves using tools like Fallrim Tools, but it isn't a perfect solution.
Cleaning files out of the Overwrite section can help in removing errors.
I do have the Unofficial Patch.

But if there's anything else (like a list of mods all users should avoid) or some tool and bug fix or something I can do to ensure my game is as smooth as possible whilst having numerous mods, I'd like to know about it. Currently, on a play-through about 4 hours long, I've been having some crashes and infinite-loading screens. Even had a crash that gave me a message that had something to do with memory, so I'm thinking I might have too many texture mods. :P

Thanks for reading.

EDIT: Assuming I've fixed this, it was my VideoMemorySize in enblocal.ini being far too low.

[SilentAegis]

Just remembered another one: When using Mod Organizer, making the left pane match up the right should help. I remember being told this by a well known member of the Skyrim steam community who helped so many people, some people started asking him directly for assistance.

[Ilja]

Mod author sorting recommendations are often a very good start, but there might be few issues with them.
- Loose files will always win conflicts against files against archived files. This is something that not every mod author notices to consider.
- Load order position sets resource priorities for files in archives.

Mod users need to read author recommendations with consideration.
- Are they talking about just record priorities in load order?
- Are they also talking about resource priorities set by load order?
- Or are they just discussing about resource priorities and in which form?

Yep: I hope they would all make it clear. However, most mod authors only have an inspiration moment to work with a mod and then release it, comparing it against known conflicts of popular mods. That does not necessarily reflect the whole truth of conflicts.

Don't get me wrong. Modding the game is not that complex. However, it still is exactly that complex at the same time. The amount of relevant conflicts in archived resources are usually very small and LOOT tends to handle most of them, because that information has been added to it's sorting rules by community reporting over such conflicts to them.

Adding mods in the middle of the game rarely causes permanent issues. It is more often a load shock, where script data needs to settle with the current "environment" on first load.

Properly cleaning script residue from save files is often hopeless. It depends on how those scripts were made. Many - if not most - mod authors use the "wrong way", because those are the ones that have been recorded to internet over and over again. This is why my usual recommendation is that players should never believe that they can reliably remove scripted mods from ongoing game.

To actual issues.
- Infinite loading screens usually point to memory allocation failure, or wrong load order.
- Crashes can point to same thing.

However, make sure to install Canary Save File Monitor. It is always possible that your save files are suffering from issue that got identified just recently.

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/44949

I would also recommend installing Workshop Framework, if you encounter issues with settlements.

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/35004

Otherwise it is hard to say what could be wrong. MO2 is quite reliable tool. You just need to sort loose file conflicts from left panel with it. Load order still handles archived resources for it.

If things do not settle, then post your load order and mod list (both available from MO2 profiles folder) here and we can try to see if we spot some know conflicts.

[SilentAegis]

Originally posted by Ilja:

Mod author sorting recommendations are often a very good start, but there might be few issues with them.
- Loose files will always win conflicts against files against archived files. This is something that not every mod author notices to consider.
- Load order position sets resource priorities for files in archives.

Mod users need to read author recommendations with consideration.
- Are they talking about just record priorities in load order?
- Are they also talking about resource priorities set by load order?
- Or are they just discussing about resource priorities and in which form?

Yep: I hope they would all make it clear. However, most mod authors only have an inspiration moment to work with a mod and then release it, comparing it against known conflicts of popular mods. That does not necessarily reflect the whole truth of conflicts.

Don't get me wrong. Modding the game is not that complex. However, it still is exactly that complex at the same time. The amount of relevant conflicts in archived resources are usually very small and LOOT tends to handle most of them, because that information has been added to it's sorting rules by community reporting over such conflicts to them.

Adding mods in the middle of the game rarely causes permanent issues. It is more often a load shock, where script data needs to settle with the current "environment" on first load.

Properly cleaning script residue from save files is often hopeless. It depends on how those scripts were made. Many - if not most - mod authors use the "wrong way", because those are the ones that have been recorded to internet over and over again. This is why my usual recommendation is that players should never believe that they can reliably remove scripted mods from ongoing game.

To actual issues.
- Infinite loading screens usually point to memory allocation failure, or wrong load order.
- Crashes can point to same thing.

However, make sure to install Canary Save File Monitor. It is always possible that your save files are suffering from issue that got identified just recently.

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/44949

I would also recommend installing Workshop Framework, if you encounter issues with settlements.

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/35004

Otherwise it is hard to say what could be wrong. MO2 is quite reliable tool. You just need to sort loose file conflicts from left panel with it. Load order still handles archived resources for it.

If things do not settle, then post your load order and mod list (both available from MO2 profiles folder) here and we can try to see if we spot some know conflicts.

Whoa! Dude, I didn't know you were still around, much less helping those playing Fallout games. With your advice, I'm bound to achieve what I seek.

[*.)]

Don't install MO2 on the same drive where windows is installed. When you launch the game, MO2 will make a virtual drive and windows doesn't like it when that happens within it's own folders (Program files).

You don't need to match the left and right panel. The left is a browser for you, the user. The right panel is the loadorder.

[Ilja]

Originally posted by *.):

You don't need to match the left and right panel. The left is a browser for you, the user. The right panel is the loadorder.

The left panel manages loose file resource priorities.

You don't need to match it (though I do, because that was required with 1.x, where MO handled archives and I like to keep folders in the same order), but you DO need to sort out all loose file conflicts for folders.

[SilentAegis]

Alright, done some more reading. So I was not aware of the issue kinggath discovered and after reading about it here in the discussions, I've immediately installed the monitor. I also noticed that I haven't updated LOOT in a very long time, so I've done so to discover a vexing issue. I use Arbitration, Armorsmith Extended, and Horizon, all mods I very much enjoy using. However, according to LOOT, Arbitration and Armorsmith Extended are not compatible with Horizon... so I guess I've a decision to make?

Originally posted by *.):

Don't install MO2 on the same drive where windows is installed. When you launch the game, MO2 will make a virtual drive and windows doesn't like it when that happens within it's own folders (Program files).

You don't need to match the left and right panel. The left is a browser for you, the user. The right panel is the loadorder.

Nah, my MO2 and Fallout 4 is installed on an entirely separate drive, there's no worries there. However, not matching the panels, well that's some contradictory info there since I was told a long time ago that it wasn't a bad idea. Still, I will do it anyway, but keep the original load order in case you're right.

[Ilja]

"Arbitration and Armorsmith Extended are not compatible with Horizon"

I honestly haven't checked. I do use AE, but not either one of those. Perhaps there are patches for Horizon? It is still quite popular mod, so I would be surprised if there weren't patch files for it.

[SilentAegis]

Originally posted by Ilja:

"Arbitration and Armorsmith Extended are not compatible with Horizon"

I honestly haven't checked. I do use AE, but not either one of those. Perhaps there are patches for Horizon? It is still quite popular mod, so I would be surprised if there weren't patch files for it.

According to this website: https://fo4horizon.gamepedia.com/Using_other_mods_with_Horizon#AWCKR_and_Armorsmith_Extended

"As of version 1.6, Horizon no longer supports Armorsmith Extended in any capacity. It doesn't use and doesn't conflict with the latest versions of AWKCR, so you are free to install it if you need it for other mods. However, those mods likely need to patched; see above."

The same website for Arbitration: https://fo4horizon.gamepedia.com/Mod_compatibility

Says Horizon is semi-compatible with Arbitration. It looks like there isn't an immediate risk with keeping those mods in, since personally, none of those mods have given me trouble before. My issues have been quite recent. Still, I will look for some patches in a bit.

EDIT: Assuming the page has been updated recently, it looks like there are none.

[SilentAegis]

Played for a solid hour with no problems except for AAF's loading getting stuck at 30%, but I've had that issue before. Changing the load order of all mods and patches relating to AAF can fix it, I just need to figure it out again. Unless it is premature, this seems to be solved, however I'm going to try for a longer play session in case an hour is all I can get from the game.

[Ilja]

Just politely pointing out that the best source of information for AAF is not in Nexus. If you want all out of AAF and it's patches, with people both able and very willing to give a proper support for it, then those can be found from the usual adult modding site.

I took a year long hiatus from FO4. I have gotten up to date with everything else, except what has been going on with AAF. I am currently nuking potential problems from my own AAF build while writing this.

[Error404]

Kame hame ha!!
( >>.<)>========D (º-º")
Booooom!!

Bye <3

[SilentAegis]

Mmmm. I played for an hour again and the game froze during combat. I'll try again to see if it was simply random or it's an issue again.

[SilentAegis]

Another crash... about 50 minutes in... this is going to take longer than I thought, it seems. I'm going to try continuing to match the right and left pane (hey, it might do something) and cleaning another mod. While I don't think I was near any settlers, (I was entering the Diamond City mayor's office via the elevator at the entrance of Diamond City, before you walk into the city when I crashed) BetterSettlers suddenly got dirty.

Also noticed my FallRim tools are outdated remarkably. Besides simply removing mods having issues on a save, I've two theories right now. I managed to fix AAF, but had to remove a patch mod from the author Indarello since it's causing issues not just for me, but for numerous people. Either removing that mod has borked my save to the point where I can get only an hour of gameplay or so before it crashes\freezes, etc (which I'm not sure if saves work that way, but it's just a theory) or using a 2 years old version of FallRim tools to "clean" the save has. We'll see.

[SilentAegis]

I just played for a bit over two hours with no problems at all and I think I know what the problem was. I went to my ENB files and opened up "enblocal.ini" and saw that my VideoMemorySizeMb setting was set to 8046, about half of my available memory. I think that was the problem since my crashes have been about an hour on the dot (one was even indoors with my character not doing much). I'll keep playing to ensure, but if I don't respond, consider this matter solved.

My thanks to IIja for telling me about Kinggath's discovery, even if it wasn't the problem. Hopefully he figures out what causes the data loss.

[Tmancom03]

I just wanted to add to this and let people know a separate resolution I found for this has to do with an incompatibility with windows "Readyboost". Just wanted to add another thing people could try when working to fix this is see if you have any drives set up with ready boost and remove them.

When i did that it actually stopped this crashing problem as well as the one where it crashes when loading the perk menu.