[SPOILER ALERT] Reasoning about Shaun

[The Rock... et League]

First of all, I apologize if my Eng is not so good.
I'll try to make this short and clear: on my opinion, based on some little information that the game gives you, Father is not Shaun, and it's lying to you.

The explanation is simple:



-When U explore Kellog's memories, you'll see the moment when he kidnap Shaun. In this moment, by interacting with any of the criopod that ISN'T yours or Shaun's one, Kellog will say something like this:

<<I never understood why we did not simply re-freeze the rest, but we had orders. Perhaps the Old Man did not want to outstanding issues.>>

We understand that this "Old Man" is the person that ordered Kellogg to kidnap your son.



Let's move on.



-In the last memory, we see Kellogg and "a Shaun" (either Syth or not, it changes nothing) in the Diamond City Home. If U interact with "the Shaun", Kellog will say something like this:

<<It wasn't my idea to estabilish to Diamond City with the kid. On my opinion, i was a bad idea. But this was one of the Old Man's beloved projects. And here we are, me and the kid, like a happy family>>

In this passage we learn that the "Old Man" has ordered Kellog to go in Diamond City with "the Shaun" and stay there.




Let's try now to place temporally this last memory:


There is a Radio in the shack, and if U listen to it, U'll hear Travis talking about Piper and about McDonough that'll get angry at her when he discovers something.
This locate the memory in recent times, max 10~ years ago.
Why?
Well... because we know that Nat (Piper's sister) has moved to Diamond City with Piper after saving some money AFTER their father got killed. Let's assume that Nat was maximum 4 years old when then they moved, now she is like 14~ years old.


Now let's go back at what Travis said at the Radio: "McDonough will be angry"
Why?
Well, how can our journalist piss off McDonough? With her newspaper obviusly!
But which one of the "many" articles in her career could be the one mentioned?
Probably not the one about the Caravan Cartel, neither the one about the irradiated water at Bunker Hill.
Tbh, the only (known) Article that could really get the Major angry, is "The Synthetic Truth", the one that says that te Major is a Synth.


Now, U guys remember what happens when we first get to the Green Diamond of the Commonwealth? We see Piper, left outside because McDonough is pissed, as we can see when we get in with her, after trolling the poor guard.
And why is McDonough pissed? Because of the newspaper!
And which article is on the Publick Occurences when Nat gives you your first copy?
Yeah. The Synthetic Truth.


So now we know that the last memory of Kellogg took place very very recently, probably the day we brake free from Vault 111 or even later.


But what has all this to do with Father not being Shaun?
I'll explain this to you wih a temporal line (i'll try).




"Old Man"
tell Kellogg to Kidnapping Malfunction in 111
kidnap Ur son (first awakening) Player gets free
-------I----------------------I--------------------------I----------------------------------------------------------------->

We have now 3 points in time, we know the first two are relatively near in time, but we don't know how much time has passed between the first awakening and getting free.

But, as we know that Kellogg was in DC when Piper has done some "McDonough pissing action", and we see Piper closed outside by order of the Major, we know that Kellogg was in Diamond City just few days before our arrival there.

Now get back to what we know: who ordered Kellogg to go in DC? The "Old Man".

Because of Piper and McDonough particular, we know for sure that it was Father that sent Kellogg to Diamond City.
But Father it's the "Old Man".
And the "Old Man" orderer Shaun kidnap.

So how could Shaun be Father? He ordered his own kidnap from the future? I don't think so.

Probably Father is a sick bastard that lie to you all the time and your poor son has been melted, or cutted in tiny pieces or feeded to one of those Synth Gorilla.
But still, Father isn't Shaun.



So, anyone has anything to say? Cuz' I'm still not sure I did all the reasoning well: i don't see errors but cant be sure there arent. What do you guys think, after reading all this ♥♥♥♥?

(Pls read all before posting, dont show everybody your stupidity)

[terryt3535]

Why does the Old Man/Father give you control of the Institute? Assuming the Sole Survivor isn't a synth, Father makes a pretty good argument that he isn't the same person that ordered Kellog to kidnap your baby.

[Solomon Hawk]

It's ironic when I think of how advanced DNA testing is and that was omitted from the game.
Anyway, to my recollection.
When the lone survivor leaves the vault, 210 years have passed. According to the robot.
Now, if Shaun is 60 years old, this means he was taken out 150 years into the cryo freeze when Kellog came into the vault and took Shaun.
It's impossible to tell with any certainty how old Kellog is due to the synth implants which prolonged his life and youth. (This is shown in his dream when he encounters the institute). In theory, Kellog would probably actually be 60-70 when taking Shaun then about ~ 80-90 years old at the time of his death (although his appearance hasn't changed because of the implants).
The 10 year old who the lone survivor encounters briefly before he meets "Father" is a synthetic version of him, but not perfect or it could have fooled the lone survivor. But he malfuntioned.

There was a remote release of the lone survivor as shown in one of the terminals in that vault near the cryochambers. (This was probably a remote override done from the institute). But by who?

Before "Father" took over the institute, there was someone else who was in charge before him who ordered Shaun's removal from the cryofreeze. "Father" himself discloses this to the lone survivor. But he does not disclose the name of who that was.

[Yhwach]

This is literally all explained within the story through visual and audio storytelling, and if you're not indept at thinking you can actually get it.

[Herrius Le Crabe Québécois]

The first know gen3 synth was the one who malfunctioned in diamond city during the ''broken mask incident'' and its happened 60 years before the game start and since the institute needed inaltered human dna, they had to have shaun before even trying this prototype so Father can and is indeed your son. The young shaun with Kellogg is the synth version and the fact its called the old man's pet project is because it was the will of father to create the first synth child. He wanted to give it to use like he does if you go the institute way (or you get him thrown at you if doing other faction ending) so you could at least have a child back and pretend/get (this depend on your personal view of are synth human or toaster) a family life.

[kkitts]

Unfortunately, the movie "A.I." showed us what happens with synth kids: they never grow up.

Also, the robobrain concept was around pre-war, and the Institute almost certainly had access to the technology. So, "Father" could have been a synth with anyone's mind built into it, who took Shaun for DNA purposes. Indeed, the entire Institute could have been synths with human minds (who overlorded their synth-only counterparts). There are any number of potential plot holes in this story. I was mad that there was no way to force cooperation between the Institute and the Minutemen. I ran both of them, why did I have to choose at all? Bad storywriting, that's why. The Lone Wanderer could have ordered the Institute to open its doors and show everyone what happened, and now that the Wanderer runs it, the Commonwealth is safe once more (no more replacements, Institute works for the good of the people). The LW could have kept the Institute a secret, but started to roll out better foodstuffs and medical treatments. The LW could have freed all the synths without destroying the Institute and all its irreplaceable technology. Like I said in another post, if I hadn't had to nuke the Institute, I could have saved JCB in Nuka-World with their synth technology.

There's just too many plot holes. At least the LW didn't have to die this time, that would have ruined it.

[HunterOfPinkBunnyWabbits]

Even If you are leader of institute, board can still made things that you dont like. There is exsample of this in game stories. So you are not dictator.

I Am not saying that minutemen and institute hate is bad story writing. 60 years terror, kidnnapping, replacing, murder and mayhem wont go away peoples mind with one leader decissions. You can get along with both, but peoples wont accept synths and institute at one night....

[Dr Jebus]

You're assuming that the 'Old Man' Kellog refers to is Father. There would have to be a head of the Institute before Father. If they call him Father from the whole genetic thing, it's clear they like informal names for the Director. It's not a stretch that the old head of the Institute was an elderly man, so got the nickname 'Old Man' by Kellog.