Best Action Points Cost Benefit

[Zawarudo]

From my noobish perspective:

Automatics consume a good ammount of APs and deal low damage... they are the coolest weapons... its a shame :~~

Pistols consume little aps and deal reasonable damage (they also crit more and synergize with luck perks)

Rifles are heavy on AP but deal high damage (boosted vats accuracy)

Wich one offers a better AP/Damage relation?

If you want to stay on power armor and take advantage of that 90% damage reduction vats offers, which would be the best option if you dont want to spend a fortune on fusion cores :~~

[Doombringer]

Auto weapons fire multi-shot bursts in VATS.
There is some random variance in burst size, and different weapon parts can also affect it.

AP cost modifiers from weapon parts are all added together, then applied.
Base AP costs is usually 25-35 per VATS attack, depending on the weapon.
(20 grenade or Cryolator, 45 missile launcher, 50 molotov, 60 fatman)
Note that mods for every weapon are different, these are typical values though.
Reflex sights lower AP costs (-15%), glow sights slightly lower AP (-7.5%), Short/Medium/Long scopes increase (+30%/40%/50%)
Automatic/Heavy Frame is generally 25% increase, Auto+Piercing +35%, Light Frame -25%, Advanced -10%
Large mags increase AP cost by some minimal amount, quick eject mags lower it.
(on assault rifle mag: standard is +5%, quick -5%, drum +10%, quick drum +0%)
Short barrel decreases AP cost (usually -10%, -15% for very short), long barrel increase (usually +10%). (pistols only have short/very short barrels, rifles have short or long)
Imrpoved grips lower AP cost.

Scopes should increase VATS accuracy, but increase the VATS cost.

The unique railroad 10mm (Deliverer) can get silly low AP cost/shot with all the right mods.
(26 base AP -92.5% = 1.95 AP/shot)
You can fire a max of 16 shots (auto bursts counting as 1 shot here) per VATS.

[Zawarudo]

Originally posted by Doombringer:

Auto weapons fire multi-shot bursts in VATS.
There is some random variance in burst size, and different weapon parts can also affect it.

AP cost modifiers from weapon parts are all added together, then applied.
Base AP costs is usually 25-35 per VATS attack, depending on the weapon.
(20 grenade or Cryolator, 45 missile launcher, 50 molotov, 60 fatman)
Note that mods for every weapon are different, these are typical values though.
Reflex sights lower AP costs (-15%), glow sights slightly lower AP (-7.5%), Short/Medium/Long scopes increase (+30%/40%/50%)
Automatic/Heavy Frame is generally 25% increase, Auto+Piercing +35%, Light Frame -25%, Advanced -10%
Large mags increase AP cost by some minimal amount, quick eject mags lower it.
(on assault rifle mag: standard is +5%, quick -5%, drum +10%, quick drum +0%)
Short barrel decreases AP cost (usually -10%, -15% for very short), long barrel increase (usually +10%). (pistols only have short/very short barrels, rifles have short or long)
Imrpoved grips lower AP cost.

Scopes should increase VATS accuracy, but increase the VATS cost.

The unique railroad 10mm (Deliverer) can get silly low AP cost/shot with all the right mods.
(26 base AP -92.5% = 1.95 AP/shot)
You can fire a max of 16 shots (auto bursts counting as 1 shot here) per VATS.

Wow thanks! This explains everything in a very simplified way! So in what concerns AP cost reduction, It seems I wont need the Science perk right?

I also found this video, its very interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVrE9Ip9Ch4

Despite the deliverer being possibly the best, I dont think it is... well, a huge power armor and a small silenced pistol kind of break the immersion haha...

So, just wondering, any chance of an automatic laser "burst" dealing more damage then an plasma pistol shot for example? Any chance an automatic burst >>> single semi-automatic shot in vats?

[ghpstage]

Experience suggests that if you have a specific weapon and changed between a single shot and automatic receiver then the automatic will generally have better DAM per AP cost. Combat shotguns being a notable exception due to their 'burst' of one.
Of course the cost per attack is still higher so you can hit fewer targets, automatics without a suppressor are also far less capable when performing sneak attacks.

Play around with weapon building a bit and you will soon find that you can make a respectable VATS focused weapon out of pretty much any gun. Just try a hunting rifle with a short stock, long light barrel, reflex sight and appropriately sized QE mag, it doesn't make the greatest VATS gun ever but it'll likely surprise you.
If you put a scope on this then you'll have regained maximum scoped sniping performance with a reduced AP cost too.

On your laser, depends on parts and not sure but lasers are poor weapons in general.
If its a sneak attack then it certainly can't as a laser can't mount a suppressor.
Energy damage in general is underwhelming due to multiple 'oversights' (typos?) in the DR mechanics. As the laser uses only energy DAM its going to be hit harder.

My favourite VATS auto isa combat rifle with,
Short stock
Long light barrel
Medium QE mag
Reflex sight
Compensator->muzzle brake->suppressor depending on what Ican get.

The muzzle parts main role to be controlling the significant recoil the rest of the weapon results in. The suppressor also allows for indefinite consecutive sneak attacks, and allows use of a couple of perk buffs.

[Doombringer]

Originally posted by Sir Badargo:

Despite the deliverer being possibly the best, I dont think it is... well, a huge power armor and a small silenced pistol kind of break the immersion haha...

I wasn't saying Deliverer was the best weapon, just it can get the lowest AP cost ;)

Generally top auto or advanced receivers are better than Light Frame for VATS, even though they don't reduce AP cost as much (they add plently of rate of fire + damage to make up for it)

Some of it depends on what range you are using the weapon.
I usually use reflex sights for VATS weapons, and short scopes for non-VATS, but at very long ranges you may want a scope for VATS.
Short barrels help AP cost, but come with significant penalties to accuracy/range.
(beyond max range weapon damage scales down to 50% (10% for shotguns!). Some guns with very short barrels can't even shoot across a medium sized room at full damage...)

As far as auto vs single in VATS: auto is usually 3 shots (minigun and gatling laser are different, auto combat shotgun is trash) for +25% of the base VATS cost, so it does end up being more damage/AP.
Gatling laser fire 8 shot bursts with charging barrels, 10 with standard.
Minigun bursts are all 10 shots. (accelerated/standard/tri-barrel)

[Zawarudo]

Wow, so automatic weapons are a vats alternative??? I love them!

So you guys are saying, if we pick an automatic weapon, and divide its damage dealt in a single action by the number of action points used, we get a higher value than say, a pistol or a rifle?

I mean, not including the legendary weapons and effects that are plentiful in this game.

[Doombringer]

You will need more AP to fire a burst, but the total damage of the burst will be higher, and the damage increase is greater than the AP increase.
(usually) 3 shot burst = 3x potential damage for a +25% VATS cost modifier.
Accuracy probably takes a little hit, but still.
(My character is so high level that I need to sneak attack gauss rifle headshot to kill stuff, so it's been a long time since I used normal weapons...)

on my test character (with no perks at all, normal mode, vs 0 armor), maxed charging barrel gatling laser does 151 damage per shot x 8 shots for 40.5 AP in VATS
(If it were VATS enhanced legendary I think it would cost 33 AP instead.)