Is Ballistic Weave Overrated?

[Grendalcat]

Most of the time I use Power Armor. My latest character has not used it at all, partly because many posters here have commented that Ballistic Weave Armor is overpowered. So at about level 30 I made a set of Ballistic Weave Mark IV Military Fatigues and Newsboy Cap. Each armor rating = 90. After playing a few more levels wearing this plus some average Combat Armor, it seemed as though I was taking more damage than usual. So I finally checked the actual armor points shown on the Pip-Boy screen. The cap was indeed providing 90 points, but the MIlitary Fatigues armor points are divided over your five body areas, for only 18 points covering each limb and your torso. I also checked some Railroad Armor Mark II, and its 50 armor points are actually divided into 10 points per body area.

So it seems to me that using non power armor is really just a way of making the game harder, or perhaps RPing that your character never learned how to use PA. Even the very first set of T-45 you can get provides much better protection than this mid-game ensemble I am wearing.

So do you think Ballistic Weave, and non PA in general, are overrated?

[Zee_]

You don't have to join the railroad to unlock ballistic weave. It only takes about 4 missions to unlock it, after that you can go and nuke em if you want. I hate the RR, yet I always unlock ballistic weave.

Yes, its better than power armor. Weave plus heavy combat armor (or if you want to go overboard marine armor) will put you over the damage resist cap the same way higher tier PA does, only you can be a hell of alot more stealthy in weave.

Not to mention giving weave 5 clothes and some light armor to settlers turns even those worthless things into tanks.

[Grendalcat]

Originally posted by spared_life:

The jetpack is alright, there are a couple places where you can get off the map with it.

The devs probably decided to add it later in the game development stage since most of the places you can't reach without it have nothing to loot and serve no purpose but props.

Would have been great to have more of the upper highway system used and obtainable only with the jetpack.

It's a great add on for the suit but the difference of having and not having it is not that awe inspiring.

Where can you get off the map? That sounds awesome.

Originally posted by CiD EviL:

There are some hats that you can do up with Ballistic Weave and they have more armor rating then a full set of maxed out combat armour

Ballistic Weave is OP AF

The best Ballistic Weave hat I am aware of is Level 5, = 110 armor points for your head.
The very first set of T-45 in Concord has a helmet = 300 points for your head.
What am I missing?

[Out Of Bubblegum]

Some thoughts.
This game is very easy to begin with. Even on survival. I am talking about the base game without mods. And I am not saying it's beecause I am so good. I am not. I suck. I have the reaction time of a turtle. You have to work at keeping the game a challange. If you actually want a 'game' and not just a walking simulator with slaughter. On top of the base game being easy there are many different ways to make your character very OP. You can tweak your SPECIAL stats and be OP. Many of the perks make you OP. VATS is OP. Power Armor is OP. Making a VATS build is very OP. Using your companion as a decoy is OP.

How many of the BW is better players are on Very Hard or Survival? How often do they die? How often do they quicksave and reload? How often do their companions 'die'?

So if you use any of the other OP methods then you do not need PA.

[spared_life]

Originally posted by Grendalcat:

Originally posted by spared_life:

The jetpack is alright, there are a couple places where you can get off the map with it.

Where can you get off the map?

At the load areas, you have to get up high enough to get over the load triggers. A good example is at Diamond City. The jetpack lets you work your way up into the buildings upper structure and then eventually off the map.

I know you can just noclip but I enjoy finding glitches.

New Vegas is the big one for getting off the map. Once off the land is bare and mostly flat. I built an entire city next to Vegas off the maps.

I don't mess with mods but I have wondered if the settlement mod would let you build off the map. Problem is Fallout 4 like Oblivion doesn't load a viable land structure.

But we are off topic, if you pursue this please keep me informed in a new discussion.

[CiD EviL]

@Grendalcat i said "full set of maxed out combat armour" not power armour

[Bored Peon]

You guys are also forgeting balistic weave can be stacked with armor when used on fatigues.

[Grendalcat]

Originally posted by CiD EviL:

@Grendalcat i said "full set of maxed out combat armour" not power armour

Yeah I misread that. However, doesn't the cap protect only your head? And at 110pts it's still much less protective than the T-45 helmet.

[jonnan.west]

Originally posted by 「Garus」:

I don't think it's worth it because you have to join the worst faction in the game and do a bunch of boring missions.

No, you don't have to join the Institute.

[kaffekoppen]

IMO it's power armor that is overrated. With custom armor pieces, you'll have 5 legendary effects plus the effects from a hat, a pair of glasses and the clothes you wear. That's a lot of stacking bonuses. On top of that, none of it can break.

Especially melee characters benefit from the legendary effects in reaching higher levels of strength. It's a straight up damage buff for them.

As for the damage resistance, with ballistic weave it's more than high enough. I have multiple playthroughs on Very Hard to prove that you don't really need more than ballistic weave and some armor pieces.

[ghpstage]

Originally posted by Grendalcat:

Yeah I misread that. However, doesn't the cap protect only your head? And at 110pts it's still much less protective than the T-45 helmet.

No. The only DR value that is ever used in the combat math is the grand total from all sources. There would be no purpose in having a total count at the bottom right of the Apparel screen in the pipboy if it were locational.
'Much less' protective is also questionable as DR is subject to diminishing returns, halving received damage requiresan 8 fold increase in DR.

MOAR DR is nice, but it doesn't scale too well, and on survival atlow levels it can still feel like paper. You also have to look at the penalties for its use, the reason Ballistic Weave is seen as OP isn't because it can tank like Power Armour, its because it makes a giant leap towards it without any of the drawbacks.

Originally posted by kaffekoppen:

IMO it's power armor that is overrated. With custom armor pieces, you'll have 5 legendary effects plus the effects from a hat, a pair of glasses and the clothes you wear. That's a lot of stacking bonuses. On top of that, none of it can break.

Especially melee characters benefit from the legendary effects in reaching higher levels of strength. It's a straight up damage buff for them.

As for the damage resistance, with ballistic weave it's more than high enough. I have multiple playthroughs on Very Hard to prove that you don't really need more than ballistic weave and some armor pieces.

I agree. With legendaries being so absurdly OP the lack of decent ones is painful, .

I'll add that;
PA has less varied and much weaker custom options, especially protection against explosives.
The requirements for upgrades and related perks are very steep.
Having a negative impact on several of the strongest player tools (sneak, VATS, sprinting) isn't helpful.

[Grendalcat]

Originally posted by ghpstage:

Originally posted by Grendalcat:

Yeah I misread that. However, doesn't the cap protect only your head? And at 110pts it's still much less protective than the T-45 helmet.

No. The only DR value that is ever used in the combat math is the grand total from all sources. There would be no purpose in having a total count at the bottom right of the Apparel screen in the pipboy if it were locational.
'Much less' protective is also questionable as DR is subject to diminishing returns, halving received damage requiresan 8 fold increase in DR.

Why does the Apparel screen show locational values, if they are not used?

[BlazeD]

The reason to use weave over PA is 2 fold:

1) PA limits your str to 11.
2) Weave allows you to stack legendary armor effects for stats, protection, etc.

Note that armor worn under PA has NO effect. Neither the AC nor any effects are available as long as you have PA on.

[Grendalcat]

So this is the basic version of my char wearing Armored Cap and Military Fatigues, each with Ballistic Weave IV. At the bottom it says total = 190, but the Cap = 90, and each of the other five body areas says 18.

So when something attacks me, what armor points apply? Is it 90 for the head, and only 18 for the other five body areas? Or is it 190, or something else?

Edit: messed up the pic somehow.

[Edmundeath]

I used some mods to make power armor make anyone invulnerable. Now I have to break armor pieces just to do damage to enemies, but power armor also makes me invulnerable. It actually feels more balanced in my game, because I also upped the damage of explosives. A person with a missile launcher actually can beat someone in power armor. If you aren't using explosives, then it is very difficult to kill someone in power armor.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Grendalcat:

So when something attacks me, what armor points apply? Is it 90 for the head, and only 18 for the other five body areas? Or is it 190, or something else?.

I can tell you for a lot of experience that your body armor does NOT protect your head. Anyone else who crouches a lot can vouch for that, lol.

The game uses hit locations, think about it, otherwise limb damage wouldnt exist. The same can be seen when you use the Awareness pekr and examine mobs. It shows different armor values for different locations.

You can also tell the damage difference like when you have a low level legednary armor item in a spot.

Originally posted by Edmundeath:

I used some mods...

We are discussing plain vanilla mechanics, talking about mods and how they work in the discussion only confuses people.