Is luck worth it for non crit builds?

[MTV]

I always neglect luck because I don't use vats in my game. Is luck worth using if you don't use vats mode at all?

Some of the perks look nice but it doesn't look good enough if you are a non vats user.

[MTV]

I have a question about the scrounger perk. Do corpses count as containers?

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Originally posted by M'aiq:

Originally posted by Stardustfire:

Im a none Vats player and Bloody mess is ever worth it, also dont forget luck influence you chance to find legendary enemys, means legeendary loot.

I've heard that's incorrect. I've been told that only game difficulty influences that and I already play on Survival mode

It's complicated.

Luck adds a bonus to your character level for purposes of leveled loot. That means a High Luck character can find items in certain places a low luck character cannot, most notably, they may be able to find things like Laser Gatling legendary drops as early as around Diamond City, which normally level-caps out around 24. This works also for chests, so with high luck you'll find things that typically you might expect of someone 10 or more levels higher.

However, it does not actually influence the chance of finding an item in particular, and if say, you wanted a very specific, low-level item (IE Laser Musket or Double Barrel Shotgun) having higher luck can make it harder, by expanding the pool.

Originally posted by M'aiq:

I have a question about the scrounger perk. Do corpses count as containers?

For the purposes of Scrounger, yes.

[Doombringer]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Specific Luck perks like Scrounger do add something else to containers, as I recall, but it's not a direct Luck effect.

The effect from the first 2 luck perks (fortune finder and scrounger) are actually leveled lists in the leveled list. The chance of them spawning anything without the perks is 0 though.
Fortune Finder lets you find 2x 0-9 caps in most containers. (40/70/100%)
Scrounger100 is on 938 different objects, including most enemies and containers. (40/70/100%)
ScroungerSmall is mainly on containers (191 objects, gives second roll sometimes). (10/20/30%)

[Tesityr]

Originally posted by Doombringer:

Originally posted by Tesityr:

Luck affects far, far more than just Crits... It affects the value of items found in Containers (Modifications, etc) and amount of Ammo found in Containers. It also affects Legendaries and their occurrence.

For example, on a high Luck build character playthrough, I find about 4-6 Legendaries in buildings/areas while on Quests in that area/building - this is on NORMAL.

It's fine if you ignore Luck, but even the introduction cinematic for Luck states it affects far more than just Criticals (also, the Official Game Guide lists a bunch of things it affects).

Since you get Perk Points every Level, there's no sense in not maxing it out, eventually :) Have fun with it!

Luck does not affect as much as you think it does.
Container loot is set from leveled lists, which can easily be looked up, they do not check luck.
There is even a loot rolling simulator in the creation kit so you don't have to go in game to see.
It only cares about level.
(in Creation Kit: LeveledItems --> Container_Loot_<whatever container type>)

Legendaries chance is based on difficulty and level only.
Here is LegendaryChanceQuest:
(uses script QF_LegendaryChanceQuest_00165570.psc)

if game.GetPlayer().GetLevel() > 50
ChanceLegendary.SetValue(20)
elseif game.GetPlayer().GetLevel() > 40
ChanceLegendary.SetValue(18)
elseif game.GetPlayer().GetLevel() > 30
ChanceLegendary.SetValue(15)
elseif game.GetPlayer().GetLevel() > 20
ChanceLegendary.SetValue(12)
elseif game.GetPlayer().GetLevel() > 5
ChanceLegendary.SetValue(10)

ChanceLegendary is a Global Value that is used by many different Actors (79 types, but many spawns for each type. For example LvlRaider is 1 type, but with 210 different spawns...) to determine if they spawn as a legendary.

Incorrect. My sources are the Official Game Guide for Fallout 4 (stamped by Bethesda) and actual gameplay experience (directly).

Normal Gamplay Difficulty = Multiple Legendaries (with High Luck Character)

There is no debate here. Your data mining is inferior to actual Developer-Based Sources and actual Gameplay Experience.

Please stop thinking your data-mining is accurate. There are many variables that are calculated during 'live' gameplay (game operating and calculating) that you cannot possibly take into account (and seem to be willfully ignoring). Stop your misinformation, you are misleading too many here.

[Doombringer]

My source is the code the game actually runs on.
The game doesn't load code from your book when you double click the icon...
Creation Kit loads data from the actual game files.
If you actually bothered to test things in a systematic way (instead of just saying I'm always right, there is no debate, because this book said...), you would find a 100% correlation between game data and in game experience...

[Tesityr]

Originally posted by Doombringer:

My source is the code the game actually runs on.
The game doesn't load code from your book when you double click the icon...
Creation Kit loads data from the actual game files.

There are calculations and variables that data-mining does not account for... I realize you may be a young programmer, learning about coding games, but you must learn that just because you cannot think of something, does not mean that it does not exist.

I have a recording of a Playthrough of Hubris Comics, on NORMAL, where I encounter about 5 Legendaries. On NORMAL because of my High Luck character. I can Upload that to Youtube if you'd like, but you seem to be so ignorant and thick-skulled that you could not possibly believe what you see anyway...

Nevermind, I've seen people arguing with you "Doombringer" in other threads.... You are PROVEN wrong many times and yet you still spout your nonsensical "data". Since you seem to be wilfully Trolling people here, I am ignoring/blocking you.

Stop. Misleading. People.

[Doombringer]

Only one misleading here is you.
I don't think you are doing it intentionally, but you should really check stuff before saying someone is wrong, or how things works.
I actually check in game before posting here...

[Tesityr]

Originally posted by Doombringer:

Only one misleading here is you.
I don't think you are doing it intentionally, but you should really check stuff before saying someone is wrong, or how things works.
I actually check in game before posting here...

Again, I know the values because they are backed by BETHESDA.

I played the actual game with the Settings and THE RESULTS are exactly what I wrote.
I always test in the game before posting here...

Stop. Lying to people. Stop it. Now.

Edit:
You are responding exactly how a Troll responds, in an effort to keep the negative discussion/arguement going... You are literally Trolling, stop bothering people here.

[DouglasGrave]

In my personal experience, Luck doesn't seem to make any difference to the rate at which legendary enemies appear.

I gained a substantial boost to Luck with my main character when I was exploiting duplicating the You're SPECIAL! book (in a vanilla game, using no console commands), and I didn't notice any commensurately sudden increase in the number of legendary enemies.


But that's just one case. Tesityr, what's the rigor like on your tests? That is, how many playthrough tests are you comparing?

[Doombringer]

Originally posted by Tesityr:

snip

Okay, according to you, the code for the scrounger perk, and the global variables and leveled lists it uses aren't used for the scrounger perk, but they instead use something else that only you and your book know about and that no one else can ever see?
Am I getting this correct?

Is the LegendaryChanceQuest is just random extraneous code to throw people off how things really work? How is the exact chance for legendaries set? what determines which spawns can or can't be legendaries?
Because this answers it exactly. (use info on legendarychance global value and the quest)
Your 'It's luck, I met a lot in this one area, there is no debate' doesn't quite answer that so well...

[Tavman (4)]

Cap Collector, Scrounger and Bloody Mess are useful perks and are all within the first three levels.

The only other perks I see that don't require VATS is Idiot Savant and Ricochet, both of which are very situational depending on the character.

[MTV]

I made a 10 luck char on surivival mode. If Testiyrs right I should be finding legendarys left and right. I'm only level 8 currently. Too early to confirm either way.

[Tin Can]

Originally posted by M'aiq:

I plan on making a luck character soon for idiot savant. I also wanna see if the legendary drop rate thing is true or not

Well, I ran with 14 luck and every other mob was a legendary. People say luck doesn't do anything. All I can say is try it.

[Tin Can]

Originally posted by M'aiq:

I made a 10 luck char on surivival mode. If Testiyrs right I should be finding legendarys left and right. I'm only level 8 currently. Too early to confirm either way.

You gonna die to a Legendary Black Bloatfly. Hate those things.

[Tesityr]

Originally posted by M'aiq:

I made a 10 luck char on surivival mode. If Testiyrs right I should be finding legendarys left and right. I'm only level 8 currently. Too early to confirm either way.

If I may pop back in, I wasn't playing on Survival Mode (note that I said I was playing "Normal") - but indeed, you should be finding a lot of Legendaries, unless the Luck 'buffing' of Legendaries does not carry over in to Survival Mode (since it has its' own version of "increased Legendary occurrence"). GL though, let us know how it turns out!