first nuclear blast

[chabochi1]

What was the intended target of the first bomb, that hit in what us now, The Glowing Sea? Could it have been K-21 Federal Surveillance installation?

[Rez Elwin]

The glowing sea is where the nuke hit the "crater of atom", however I don't know the intended target. If I had to guess though it was the Sentinel site(Pyramid Structure). The Sentinel site was helping make mk.28 nukes, (the ones Liberty Prime uses) compatible with ICBM launch systems. So that makes it a tactically advantageous installation to destroy. The surveillance system is also underground, might not have even been on the radar.

[Tyrant]

there is a anti ICB sensor station out there and also a nuclear powerplant.
give the divergence its also possible that a large military base and or military RnD facility being present and now annihilated.
another posiibilty is the saturation method that the fallout bible refrence as being the preferred method of delivery since the large nukes that we are acustomed to dont really exist in fallout 4

eitherway the blast that created the glowing sea should have rendered your character blind not to mention other things related to radiation damage.

[Grimmrog_SIG]

The question is if youw anna nuke a target by "blowing it up" or just want to make the area dead by radioation. One may have a specific strategic target, the other more a strategic target location between other strategic targets.

[Phade]

Originally posted by chabochi1:

What was the intended target of the first bomb, that hit in what us now, The Glowing Sea? Could it have been K-21 Federal Surveillance installation?

The chinese knew of the sentinel site, and the nukes it was holding. it was aiming for around there. But from what I can tell, the yangtze is the ship that launched the majority of the nukes at america, but it couldn't have held enough to destroy the entire country.

[Tyrant]

Originally posted by Temmie:

Originally posted by chabochi1:

What was the intended target of the first bomb, that hit in what us now, The Glowing Sea? Could it have been K-21 Federal Surveillance installation?

The chinese knew of the sentinel site, and the nukes it was holding. it was aiming for around there. But from what I can tell, the yangtze is the ship that launched the majority of the nukes at america, but it couldn't have held enough to destroy the entire country.

yangtze did not fire the majority of the nukes. not even close it carried 6 and 5 were launched.
in the war thusands of nukes was launched.

moast of the ordinance came from ICBMs and stratosphere bombers, those stealth subs were probably only deployed incase a second strike was neded and to collect target data.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

People think ICBM's are accurate, but a "Good" accuracy rating of an ICBM has the margin of error out to about a Mile.

The good news is, with a hydrogen bomb, you don't exactly need pinpoint accuracy, lol.

My assumption was that, since there was apparently no (Significant) early warning on the East Coast, the first wave of nuclear impacts were "Clearing Waves" Designed to target the Sentinel sites (ICBM interceptors) and were likely SRBM or IRBMs launched from submarines. These launches would be much harder to detect with ample time to warn the population. (Most missile launches are detected via Sattelite observing launches physically)

The value of hitting the Sentinel Sites might be that because China is in such a position that the West Coast is easier to strike than the East Coast, (East Coast would have to go through other countries potential Anti Missile defense zones) they wanted to maximize chances by disabling as much interceptor capability as possible.

[Solomon Hawk]

The blast was an intentional high yield "ground burst" to destroy the Sentinel Site. (but missed it's mark due to inaccuracy). It hit the area now known as Atom's Crater and is inhabited by the Children of Atom. That nuke was launched from the Yangtze stealth submarine commanded by Captain Zao. (When you talk with him, you'll discover that he launched all of his high yield nuclear missiles as ordered ... except one missile which failed to launch).
According to real world maps, the site of the blast is roughly 20 to 30 miles away from vault 111, so unless you were within 5 miles of ground zero, you would have suffered no critical damage. Any "flash" damage would have been mostly absorbed by the surrounding landscape (as is evidenced by the amount of destruction in The Glowing Sea along with the crater) and lack of any "telegraph pole" effect as would be seen at ground zero of an air burst.
What you witness is the fireball rising after the initial explosion.
The sound effect of the blast is extremely inaccurate. Sound travels roughly 1 mile every 4 seconds (give or take some time given the ambient temperature and weather conditions). That means the sound wave would have taken at least 80 seconds to reach Vault 111. The pressure wave which we see as we go down the shaft would have come across them just before the sound wave (roughly 65-75 seconds).

------------------------------------
Note: The nuclear blast you see at the begining did not cause the widespread destruction that we see in The Commonwealth in 2287 (210 years after we entered Vault 111).
As you "tour" around The Commonwealth, take a long look at all of the radioactive waste which you'll find everywhere. Where it was stored and how it was being transported..
The Commonwealth was already deep in radioactive contamination before the the war started due to radioactive waste which was poorly managed that you'll find all over the map.
The nuclear blast which hit near the Sentinel Site did very little in adding "insult" to an already festering injury which we inflicted upon ourselves with radioactive waste mismanagement.

We were already living in a radioactive toxic waste environment long before the war started.
The scene in Sanctuary Hills is misleading, giving the player a false impression (a quasi Eutopia) of what was really going on in the rest of The Commonwealth.

[Grimmrog_SIG]

Originally posted by Solomon Hawk:

The blast was an intentional high yield "ground burst" to destroy the Sentinel Site. (but missed it's mark due to inaccuracy). It hit the area now known as Atom's Crater and is inhabited by the Children of Atom. That nuke was launched from the Yangtze stealth submarine commanded by Captain Zao.
According to real world maps, the site of the blast is roughly 20 to 30 miles away from vault 111, so unless you were within 5 miles of ground zero, you would have suffered no critical damage. Any "flash" damage would have been mostly absorbed by the surrounding landscape (as is evidenced by the amount of destruction in The Glowing Sea along with the crater) and lack of any "telegraph pole" effect as would be seen at ground zero of an air burst.
What you witness is the fireball rising after the initial explosion.
The sound effect of the blast is extremely inaccurate. Sound travels roughly 1 mile every 4 seconds (give or take some time given the ambient temperature and weather conditions). That means the sound wave would have taken at least 80 seconds to reach Vault 111. The pressure wave which we see as we go down the shaft would have come across them just before the sound wave (roughly 65-75 seconds).

------------------------------------
Note: The nuclear blast you see at the begining did not cause the widespread destruction that we see in The Commonwealth in 2287 (210 years after we entered Vault 111).
As you "tour" around The Commonwealth, take a long look at all of the radioactive waste which you'll find everywhere. Where it was stored and how it was being transported..
The Commonwealth was already deep in radioactive contamination before the the war started due to radioactive waste which was poorly managed that you'll find all over the map.
The nuclear blast which hit near the Sentinel Site did very little in adding "insult" to an already festering injury which we inflicted upon ourselves with radioactive waste mismanagement.

We were already living in a radioactive toxic waste environment long before the war started.
The scene in Sanctuary Hills is misleading, giving the player a false impression (a quasi Eutopia) of what was really going on in the rest of The Commonwealth.

wouldn't the sound wave come with the preassure wave? In the end sound is kinda air preassue.
Alos, that radioactive waste, dunno, was it cargoed around ebfore or after the preassure. Assumign the bomb doesn#t physically destroy evertyhing it could mostlikely be that cleanign attemps were done by the survivors of the blast which more or less sooner or later failed when evrything of the system collapsed, which would probably not happen instantly. Also we do not know what kind of waste that is, how do cars transport waste, since they are atomic pwoered as well. Maybe these barrels of waste were kinda fuel for various nuclear powered devices. Maybe they were not even affecting contamination wise their surrounding before the collapse and just after started corroding to cause the contamination. Is there true evidenc eof this happenign before? because in such a society where nuklar power is sued for nearly anything, I can imagine those barrels kinda migh have been a regular sight in waste being carried around which before collaps may have not been contaminating anything.

[Solomon Hawk]

Originally posted by Grimmrog_SIG:

Originally posted by Solomon Hawk:

The blast was an intentional high yield "ground burst" to destroy the Sentinel Site. (but missed it's mark due to inaccuracy). It hit the area now known as Atom's Crater and is inhabited by the Children of Atom. That nuke was launched from the Yangtze stealth submarine commanded by Captain Zao.
According to real world maps, the site of the blast is roughly 20 to 30 miles away from vault 111, so unless you were within 5 miles of ground zero, you would have suffered no critical damage. Any "flash" damage would have been mostly absorbed by the surrounding landscape (as is evidenced by the amount of destruction in The Glowing Sea along with the crater) and lack of any "telegraph pole" effect as would be seen at ground zero of an air burst.
What you witness is the fireball rising after the initial explosion.
The sound effect of the blast is extremely inaccurate. Sound travels roughly 1 mile every 4 seconds (give or take some time given the ambient temperature and weather conditions). That means the sound wave would have taken at least 80 seconds to reach Vault 111. The pressure wave which we see as we go down the shaft would have come across them just before the sound wave (roughly 65-75 seconds).

------------------------------------
Note: The nuclear blast you see at the begining did not cause the widespread destruction that we see in The Commonwealth in 2287 (210 years after we entered Vault 111).
As you "tour" around The Commonwealth, take a long look at all of the radioactive waste which you'll find everywhere. Where it was stored and how it was being transported..
The Commonwealth was already deep in radioactive contamination before the the war started due to radioactive waste which was poorly managed that you'll find all over the map.
The nuclear blast which hit near the Sentinel Site did very little in adding "insult" to an already festering injury which we inflicted upon ourselves with radioactive waste mismanagement.

We were already living in a radioactive toxic waste environment long before the war started.
The scene in Sanctuary Hills is misleading, giving the player a false impression (a quasi Eutopia) of what was really going on in the rest of The Commonwealth.

wouldn't the sound wave come with the preassure wave? In the end sound is kinda air preassue.
Alos, that radioactive waste, dunno, was it cargoed around ebfore or after the preassure. Assumign the bomb doesn#t physically destroy evertyhing it could mostlikely be that cleanign attemps were done by the survivors of the blast which more or less sooner or later failed when evrything of the system collapsed, which would probably not happen instantly. Also we do not know what kind of waste that is, how do cars transport waste, since they are atomic pwoered as well. Maybe these barrels of waste were kinda fuel for various nuclear powered devices. Maybe they were not even affecting contamination wise their surrounding before the collapse and just after started corroding to cause the contamination. Is there true evidenc eof this happenign before? because in such a society where nuklar power is sued for nearly anything, I can imagine those barrels kinda migh have been a regular sight in waste being carried around which before collaps may have not been contaminating anything.

From the Wiki:
In physics, a shock wave (also spelled shockwave), or shock, is a type of propagating disturbance. When a wave moves faster than the local speed of sound in a fluid, it is a shock wave. Like an ordinary wave, a shock wave carries energy and can propagate through a medium; however, it is characterized by an abrupt, nearly discontinuous change in pressure, temperature and density of the medium.[1]

For context of comparison, in supersonic flows, additional increased expansion may be achieved through an expansion fan, also known as a Prandtl-Meyer expansion fan. Moreover, the accompanying expansion wave may approach and eventually collide and recombine with the shock wave, which is a process of destructive interference. Thus the sonic boom associated with the passage of a supersonic aircraft is a type of sound wave produced by constructive interference.

Unlike solitons (another kind of nonlinear wave), the energy and speed of a shock wave alone dissipates relatively quickly with distance.

Hence, when a shock wave passes through matter, energy is preserved but entropy increases. This change in the matter's properties manifests itself as a decrease in the energy which can be extracted as work, and as a drag force on supersonic objects; shock waves are strongly irreversible processes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_wave


speed of sound.
the speed at which sound waves travel through a medium. At sea level, under standard conditions of humidity and temperature, the speed of sound is about 1,200 km/hr (760 mph).




After the war, you find nothing being moved since all vehicles were disabled during the war. (by EMP Electro Magnetic Pulse). Your first power armor in Concord has a holotape nearby which describes an EMP burst which disabled their vertibird. Consequently, you'll find crashed vertibirds in many places due to this very phenomenon. This would be the same thing which would disable all vehicles but would not cause them to detonate their fusion cores which powered them. The EMP "fried" electronics.
It's easy to spot radioactive waste by the markings on barrels which you'll find in all sorts of places, from transport vehicles (semi trucks and trains). But you'll also find radioactive waste (also in barrels) laying around in many various places as common as regular trash dumps we know of today. They are even found in and around lakes all around the Commonwealth.

[DouglasGrave]

It's hard to say whether or not the barrels would have corroded over time, or if they were originally dangerous to their surroundings in exactly the same way. On one hand you might think it crazy to truck something that dangerous around, but on the other hand, pre-war society sure had a lot of radaway.

[Solomon Hawk]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

It's hard to say whether or not the barrels would have corroded over time, or if they were originally dangerous to their surroundings in exactly the same way. On one hand you might think it crazy to truck something that dangerous around, but on the other hand, pre-war society sure had a lot of radaway.

At one particular lake where a fishing tournament was supposed to take place but was cancelled due to high levels of radiation and a few deaths of people before the tournament was to take place.. The terminal in the building which monitors toxic levels in the water describes what was going on at that time. But in this case, it points at sources of contamination which are not located at the lake. The actual source of contamination is unclear but gives 3 possible locations of the source. So, something was leaking somewhere.

[Grimmrog_SIG]

Originally posted by Solomon Hawk:

Originally posted by Grimmrog_SIG:

wouldn't the sound wave come with the preassure wave? In the end sound is kinda air preassue.
Alos, that radioactive waste, dunno, was it cargoed around ebfore or after the preassure. Assumign the bomb doesn#t physically destroy evertyhing it could mostlikely be that cleanign attemps were done by the survivors of the blast which more or less sooner or later failed when evrything of the system collapsed, which would probably not happen instantly. Also we do not know what kind of waste that is, how do cars transport waste, since they are atomic pwoered as well. Maybe these barrels of waste were kinda fuel for various nuclear powered devices. Maybe they were not even affecting contamination wise their surrounding before the collapse and just after started corroding to cause the contamination. Is there true evidenc eof this happenign before? because in such a society where nuklar power is sued for nearly anything, I can imagine those barrels kinda migh have been a regular sight in waste being carried around which before collaps may have not been contaminating anything.

From the Wiki:
In physics, a shock wave (also spelled shockwave), or shock, is a type of propagating disturbance. When a wave moves faster than the local speed of sound in a fluid, it is a shock wave. Like an ordinary wave, a shock wave carries energy and can propagate through a medium; however, it is characterized by an abrupt, nearly discontinuous change in pressure, temperature and density of the medium.[1]

For context of comparison, in supersonic flows, additional increased expansion may be achieved through an expansion fan, also known as a Prandtl-Meyer expansion fan. Moreover, the accompanying expansion wave may approach and eventually collide and recombine with the shock wave, which is a process of destructive interference. Thus the sonic boom associated with the passage of a supersonic aircraft is a type of sound wave produced by constructive interference.

Unlike solitons (another kind of nonlinear wave), the energy and speed of a shock wave alone dissipates relatively quickly with distance.

Hence, when a shock wave passes through matter, energy is preserved but entropy increases. This change in the matter's properties manifests itself as a decrease in the energy which can be extracted as work, and as a drag force on supersonic objects; shock waves are strongly irreversible processes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_wave



After the war, you find nothing being moved since all vehicles were disabled during the war. (by EMP Electro Magnetic Pulse). Your first power armor in Concord has a holotape nearby which describes an EMP burst which disabled their vertibird. Consequently, you'll find crashed vertibirds in many places due to this very phenomenon. This would be the same thing which would disable all vehicles but would not cause them to detonate their fusion cores which powered them. The EMP "fried" electronics.
It's easy to spot radioactive waste by the markings on barrels which you'll find in all sorts of places, from transport vehicles (semi trucks and trains). But you'll also find radioactive waste (also in barrels) laying around in many various places as common as regular trash dumps we know of today. They are even found in and around lakes all around the Commonwealth.

Thx for the explanation.
I don't think the entire EMP thing destroyed cars, they would probably be functionally afterwards again, the vertibird crashed due to the EMP striking it. Many cars are in way too odd places which they couldn't even have reached by driving (but maybe that was just lazily littereing the map by the design team). Also, lorewise it would be interesting why power armors seem not to be affected by the EMP, one cannot tell me they were designed to withstand while the other military equipment wasn't.

About the radioactive waste cans, yes don't forgte people fueled evertyhing even their cars with it. So those barrels of nuclear waste might be an usual sight. But it's no indicator that they were contaminating their surrounding before the bombs. They may simply have done that after civilisation collapsed and no one took care about these barrels anymore.

[Solomon Hawk]

Originally posted by Grimmrog_SIG:

Originally posted by Solomon Hawk:

From the Wiki:
In physics, a shock wave (also spelled shockwave), or shock, is a type of propagating disturbance. When a wave moves faster than the local speed of sound in a fluid, it is a shock wave. Like an ordinary wave, a shock wave carries energy and can propagate through a medium; however, it is characterized by an abrupt, nearly discontinuous change in pressure, temperature and density of the medium.[1]

For context of comparison, in supersonic flows, additional increased expansion may be achieved through an expansion fan, also known as a Prandtl-Meyer expansion fan. Moreover, the accompanying expansion wave may approach and eventually collide and recombine with the shock wave, which is a process of destructive interference. Thus the sonic boom associated with the passage of a supersonic aircraft is a type of sound wave produced by constructive interference.

Unlike solitons (another kind of nonlinear wave), the energy and speed of a shock wave alone dissipates relatively quickly with distance.

Hence, when a shock wave passes through matter, energy is preserved but entropy increases. This change in the matter's properties manifests itself as a decrease in the energy which can be extracted as work, and as a drag force on supersonic objects; shock waves are strongly irreversible processes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_wave



After the war, you find nothing being moved since all vehicles were disabled during the war. (by EMP Electro Magnetic Pulse). Your first power armor in Concord has a holotape nearby which describes an EMP burst which disabled their vertibird. Consequently, you'll find crashed vertibirds in many places due to this very phenomenon. This would be the same thing which would disable all vehicles but would not cause them to detonate their fusion cores which powered them. The EMP "fried" electronics.
It's easy to spot radioactive waste by the markings on barrels which you'll find in all sorts of places, from transport vehicles (semi trucks and trains). But you'll also find radioactive waste (also in barrels) laying around in many various places as common as regular trash dumps we know of today. They are even found in and around lakes all around the Commonwealth.

Thx for the explanation.
I don't think the entire EMP thing destroyed cars, they would probably be functionally afterwards again, the vertibird crashed due to the EMP striking it. Many cars are in way too odd places which they couldn't even have reached by driving (but maybe that was just lazily littereing the map by the design team). Also, lorewise it would be interesting why power armors seem not to be affected by the EMP, one cannot tell me they were designed to withstand while the other military equipment wasn't.

About the radioactive waste cans, yes don't forgte people fueled evertyhing even their cars with it. So those barrels of nuclear waste might be an usual sight. But it's no indicator that they were contaminating their surrounding before the bombs. They may simply have done that after civilisation collapsed and no one took care about these barrels anymore.

If you take into consideration that military hardware is "hardened" against EMP, but still fell victim to EMP, it would easy to surmise that civilian vehicles were a much easier target.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Grimmrog_SIG:

Many cars are in way too odd places which they couldn't even have reached by driving (but maybe that was just lazily littereing the map by the design team).

That's probably just from deathclaws tossing them around.

[garravesh]

The realities of a nuclear exchange are only guessed as we only have one real series of nukes droppped over a population.

EMP would decimate all electronics. Farady cages excluded.. Cars that would survive emp are ones that relied on old technology . Like cars built before the 70's-80's in our reality.....electronics would be destroyed utterly...save those properly protected.

That being said electronic in the world of Fallout are generally pre 1960's//transistor tubes and such. they are much less vulnerable to EMP or CME's but not immune... take note of the Carrington even in the 1800's..Also a note of contention is that some vehicles can act as a partial farady cage....


Depending on the yield the epicenmter grows and thermal damage would be severe.
The last immediate effect would be the over pressure. Windows blowing out eardrums rupturing.
Of course the last effect is the longest lasting...the radiation.


IMO the game is so unreaslitic and shady in all application of a nuclear war that you have to suspend belief to enjoy it....


Power still running in place.....computers still operational in building exposed to weather....wooden and other materials used in houses still standing..


We only have to look to places that are abandoned like Pripyat that were abandoned and realize that , for the sake of an interesting game, all building would be gone by now.....

Another show that is interesting that I draw conclusions from is "Life after People"