Impossible to wall county crossing?

[Einherjar]

Every time I try to wall that damn settlement, I end up like this:

[Img]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/787481119611512965/DA1F110550D90E6238D48A67510F901EAEC1BCA8/[/img]

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Einherjar:

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Without seeing exactly how you've built the other corners, that sort of thing normally happens due to sticking full concrete wall panels onto the side of each other; if all your corners are using the curved pieces and full concrete walls, they shouldn't be out of line unless they haven't snapped together properly somewhere else.

EDIT: Are your other corners built square, or using those same curved pieces?

I only used 2 pieces.. the straight wall, and the curved ones

And were the other corners also built using curved pieces, or just using the flat wall panels?

[=EGC= kansasterry]

Originally posted by DrNewcenstein:

You are aware that walling in settlements is futile, right? Enemies can spawn inside your walls, unless they've fixed that.

That applies only if we do one or more of the following.

1) Include the enemy spawn points inside the wall (for example the one at graygarden that pops them in right at the building).

2) expect a completely walled off settlement to be secure from entry (the npc teleport if target not reached in x mechanic still bypasses walls etc.)

3) Fail to put up defenses that can deal with attackers during that x time countdown.

The biggest flaw with using walls in defense of course is if we do not respond to the attack then that formula takes over that does not care about such constructions.

[DrNewcenstein]

I had County Crossing walled in, well within the buildspace boundaries. I had turrets on the walls. I had ONE access point into the place, surrounded by turrets outside, inside, and on the walls on either side of the opening.

I was standing on an awning by the caravan camping spot when I saw Gunners approaching, and 3 of them spawned inside the walls by my crops, which were obliterated by my rocket launcher turrets, along with the Gunners. I thought at first a couple of my settlers had gone Synth and started attacking from the inside, but the bits and pieces were named "Gunner" this and that.

Now, I can see how, in real life, if you had an unwalled settlement and were of the Super Mutant Raider Gunnar persuasion, you'd see it from some distance and say "Hmm, easy pickins".
However, if there are such patrols near your settlement in the game, they were placed there, and are being directed to your settlement, whether it's walled or not. LOS has zero bearing here.

Walls don't stop, and that is what walls are supposed to do: stop, not merely delay. If the game is forcing enemies past the defenses in order to achieve an end, then there's something wrong with the game. It's not about calculations and whether or not you're there to see it. I WAS there, I DID see it, the game teleported/spawned/warped/placed hostile enemies inside the walls of my settlement because they had no chance of getting past my turrets.

It's a threat evasion protocol in the Creation Engine, because a similar thing happened in Skyrim.
I made a mod that placed NPCs who were hostile to the Thalmor patrols. The game moved those patrols further along the road so they wouldn't encounter my Thalmor Hunters.
Eventually, I wound up placing about 15 different outposts to intercept them, because the game kept spawning them further out, in the marshes, and/or redirecting their routes across the open plains of Whiterun Hold to get to Rorikstead and avoid my outposts.

Same thing is happening here: if you've got an impenetrable turret system and walls with only one opening, the game spawns them inside your defenses.
If you use only ballistic turrets (machinegun), the game will spawn armored enemies who are resistant to ballistics. If you use only laser turrets, you get enemies wearing energy-resistant armor (usually Gunners). If you use only Rocket Launchers, you get only Super Mutants.
It is in the system to defeat your attempts.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by DrNewcenstein:

It's a threat evasion protocol in the Creation Engine, because a similar thing happened in Skyrim.
I made a mod that placed NPCs who were hostile to the Thalmor patrols. The game moved those patrols further along the road so they wouldn't encounter my Thalmor Hunters.
Eventually, I wound up placing about 15 different outposts to intercept them, because the game kept spawning them further out, in the marshes, and/or redirecting their routes across the open plains of Whiterun Hold to get to Rorikstead and avoid my outposts.

I don't think it's strictly about threat evasion, but a backup procedure to prevent NPCs getting stuck if they spend too long trying to get to where the game has scheduled them to be. Sort of like how companions teleport to you if you leave them far enough behind.

Rather than trying to evade threats, the game is assuming they've gotten stuck and is trying to fix it.

Originally posted by DrNewcenstein:

Same thing is happening here: if you've got an impenetrable turret system and walls with only one opening, the game spawns them inside your defenses.
If you use only ballistic turrets (machinegun), the game will spawn armored enemies who are resistant to ballistics. If you use only laser turrets, you get enemies wearing energy-resistant armor (usually Gunners). If you use only Rocket Launchers, you get only Super Mutants.
It is in the system to defeat your attempts.

I can't say I've seen that; I use machinegun turrets almost everywhere, and it doesn't seem to make a difference to who turns up, just who get killed fastest. I don't see many ghouls, but other than that it tends to be a pretty solid mix.

It also seems dubious since the game generally doesn't keep a good track of the details of a settlement when it isn't actively loaded. I suppose it's more possible if it only selects the attack type when you visit the area, but I'd want to see a script that handles it making a distinction to consider it credible.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

I suppose it's more possible if it only selects the attack type when you visit the area, but I'd want to see a script that handles it making a distinction to consider it credible.

When the AI decides a settlement is going to be attacked it picks the exact time and type of attacker.

Attacker types do not change if you go defend and die, reload and try again. Although you can trigger the attack by visiting earlier than the attack time.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

I suppose it's more possible if it only selects the attack type when you visit the area, but I'd want to see a script that handles it making a distinction to consider it credible.

When the AI decides a settlement is going to be attacked it picks the exact time and type of attacker.

Attacker types do not change if you go defend and die, reload and try again. Although you can trigger the attack by visiting earlier than the attack time.

Come to think of it, my own past testing might already provide appropriate evidence of that.

When I was going for an attack on my synth-only settlement, I think I did arrive pre-attack trigger, and I don't remember fending off any synth attacks. I can't say I tested it extensively, however, since that was a very limited case.

[RyanBurnsRed]

Originally posted by Einherjar:

Every time I try to wall that damn settlement, I end up like this:

[Img]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/787481119611512965/DA1F110550D90E6238D48A67510F901EAEC1BCA8/[/img]

Try the mod Place Everywhere. You'll need F4SE though.
I suggest that mod so it would be possible for you to move the wall before the curved wall back so that it will fit into the next one

[Einherjar]

Originally posted by RyanBurnsRed:

Originally posted by Einherjar:

Every time I try to wall that damn settlement, I end up like this:

[Img]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/787481119611512965/DA1F110550D90E6238D48A67510F901EAEC1BCA8/[/img]

Try the mod Place Everywhere. You'll need F4SE though.
I suggest that mod so it would be possible for you to move the wall before the curved wall back so that it will fit into the next one

It's not that I could not make it fit if I wanted to.. the confusion is that the walls of this mod somehow won't fit themselves, if you don't match them up in the correct way

[Bored Peon]

I make walled in settlements all the time I never have issues with it not matching up.

You need to recheck your walls because you may have clipped some of them to cause it not to match up. Even if a mod changed the lengths it should still square up unless you placed something wrong.

[Einherjar]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

I make walled in settlements all the time I never have issues with it not matching up.

You need to recheck your walls because you may have clipped some of them to cause it not to match up. Even if a mod changed the lengths it should still square up unless you placed something wrong.

You may need to read the entire post/discussion :) it's not a problem I have everywhere, and with any mod

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Einherjar:

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

I make walled in settlements all the time I never have issues with it not matching up.

You need to recheck your walls because you may have clipped some of them to cause it not to match up. Even if a mod changed the lengths it should still square up unless you placed something wrong.

You may need to read the entire post/discussion :) it's not a problem I have everywhere, and with any mod

If you have a single continuous wall all the way around, and built all four corners exactly the same way with those curved pieces (no square corners), it's almost certainly just something placed out of line somewhere.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

it's almost certainly just something placed out of line somewhere.

That is my guess and why I said make sure because square is square. The cement walls easily connect clipped into each other (which is a great asset.)

[Tesityr]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

it's almost certainly just something placed out of line somewhere.

That is my guess and why I said make sure because square is square. The cement walls easily connect clipped into each other (which is a great asset.)

If I may pop in on this, Concrete has an odd 'issue' with lining up (which the other materials do not have) - where the Concrete pieces can align "inside" or "outside" other wall/floor pieces.

For example, when lining up with a Floor piece, a Concrete Wall can be placed "in the square of the floor" or "just outside the square of the floor"; the latter 'hanging' off the edge of the Floor piece, exactly one width 'in the air'.

While helpful for variety or spacing, this 'behaviour' seems specific to Concrete...

Perhaps this 'issue' has occurred here, where one piece 'somewhere along the way' is 'hanging outside the floor', so to speak. This can also affect Walls and their placement (being "inside the Floors" or "just outside the Floors"). Just an idea [or something to check].

Edit:
I made a quick example of the two ways that Concrete can 'snap' to Floor pieces (this may not be the issue above, but it is something to keep in mind perhaps)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1764457935
Just my two caps

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Tesityr:

Edit:
I made a quick example of the two ways that Concrete can 'snap' to Floor pieces (this may not be the issue above, but it is something to keep in mind perhaps)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1764457935
Just my two caps :cozyfallout4::cozyfallout4:

This is why when I wall in my settlements I do nothing but foundations first. The walls come later.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1272938453

This way it becomes far more apparent where my walls match up.

[DrNewcenstein]

If you're walling in a Settlement, it makes no sense to put down flooring, because they are all on uneven terrain. The best use is a single piece of flooring (or roofing) as a straight-edge to square up to an existing line, such as a house foundation.
However, County Crossing is a field, not a residential area like Sanctuary, so there's nothing to align with that is also aligned with the building boundary. Except maybe the road. Even then, it's outside the boundary.

Concrete Wall items have 2 attach points at each side/corner, and yes, it's easy to snap to the wrong one, causing the starting wall and the ending wall to not line up, because those two points are right next to each other..