the brotherhood of steel or the institute i cant decide!!! caution, spoilers!!

[Pieraldi]

so im at the part of the game where you have to choose what side you want to be with. i dont care much for the institute since they have been a pain in the ass since the very start of the game but you know, its your son who is the leader so it seems like that is the reason why i should help them. however the BOS is bad ass and would rather side with them but that would probably mean eventually killing my son wich kinda kills the whole story of the game since you were looking for him since the beggining. idk what to do!!!

[DouglasGrave]

Origineel geplaatst door pleasenoname3:

You over estimate their abilities. Teleportation existed in New Vegas. Even in Fallout 3 the Zetans had teleporters and i use their ship as a base. I think I will ally with the Zetans since they have the most advanced tech.

The zetans aren't human, and the teleportation in New Vegas was more limited. The Institute can drop someone almost anywhere in the Commonwealth.

Origineel geplaatst door pleasenoname3:

Lets not forget that every synth settler has killed the human that looks like them, in most cases.

No, they didn't. That would be unnecessary and only make integration more risky and difficult. They just make a random appearance that no-one knew anyway, and there's no chance of being caught out on the details. Every synth in your settlements is already a synth when they first arrive.

Origineel geplaatst door jrr101:

Eh the teleportation thing isn't strictly true the think tank had working teleportation tech prewar as well as Star Trek style replicators (the dead money vending machines) sure a malfunction with that tech is why big mt doesn't have a mountain anymore but still tech wise the institute isn't really more advance than prewar cutting edge in any field but the synths. Still baring the think tank who went ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crazy no including the enclave has the tech now and the institute is the only faction that's still making it so it's pretty impressive.

The Big MT's teleportation wasn't as advanced as the Institute version. The replicator things from Dead Money are impressive, but in a different area of expertise.

The thing that impresses me about the Institute is that, unlike most other organizations, they started in the ruins with essentially the same wasteland chances as anyone else.

[πCharlie]

Origineel geplaatst door KrayToast:

How are the Western BOS even remotely close to the Enclave?

I'm not saying they are remotely close to the Enclave, I'm just saying that's about the same level of intolerance I have for them. Truthfully being a Lawful Evil person on the Alightment scale, while I don't like some of the things the Institute has done in the past, I honestly see them as the best option for the Protagonist's future, and quite possibly the commonwealth as a whole depending on how the player's SS chooses to mold them. Obviously that's all headcannon and speculation of course. But to reiterate with what Naveena said, yeah I'm pretty much fine with the replacements depending on the situation, while the Super Mutants are a bit of a setback, they can be dealt with in due time.

I play the game basically as a Lawful Evil character who's goal is basically to unite the Commonwealth under the Institute using the Minuteman and the Nuka World raiders as proxies to form a sort of Dystopian Police State. While it's obviously not the best form of Government possible, it's certainly better than the Commonwealth we arrive in. At least the Settlements are protected and the people have access to better healthcare and better technology than what the Brotherhood would have provided. Personally I feel the Brotherhood would have either just made outposts to loot the commonwealth before continuning on their merry way, I mean sure, to the Institute the Commonwealth is basically they're plaything to Experiment on as they see fit, but at least under it's new (read: my) direction they have a lot to benefit from as a byproduct. d:

[GoreTiger]

Origineel geplaatst door DouglasGrave:

Origineel geplaatst door KrayToast:

The institute doesn't JUST replace ppl with their synths. They infiltrate communities by sending synth settlers to them. They will even infiltrate your settlements the same way. You can tell when a super mutant is a super mutant, But its the fact you have no way of telling whose a synth on the surface that scares people the most and can have the biggest threat level overall.

They do send infiltrators, who generally do nothing harmful until they eventually get discovered and shot dead for no apparent reason. It's basically like they send settlers to join your settlements.

If the Institute were actually a malignant force, they'd already have torn the surface of the Commonwealth apart.

Origineel geplaatst door KrayToast:

And the Brotherhood does care about their FEV project. They have active operations mopping up the super mutants in the wasteland. They find out from what virgil tells you that the FEV project is shut down, So the only job left to do is clean up the mutants on the surface.

While the Brotherhood fights super mutants they happen to encounter, none of their efforts in the Commonwealth are specifically aimed at stopping the Institute's FEV program (which is already shut down anyway), nor was it their mission in coming to stop the flow of super mutants. As Maxson himself says, they're here to stop synths.

Origineel geplaatst door pleasenoname3:

Institute tech in not better. Their energy weapons are weaker than pre-war lasers and plasma. Their reactor is pre-war. They can't even manufacture their own reactor. My settlements all look modern and have glass windows with modern toilet facilities. You can build superior living conditions on the surface.

The Institute hasn't focused on weaponry, but the weapons they do have are mostly suited to the way synths fight (disposably while spamming shots, since the Institute lasers have a faster firing rate), and while their reactor was developed from a pre-war model, it's far beyond that now. Even the need to jump-start their upgraded reactor may well be a dependence on materials, rather than technology. Despite understanding how a beryllium agitator works, they're only one settlement, and they can't magic up beryllium out of thin air.

As for their advances, the two big achievements they've got (apart from building the Institute itself), are advanced synthetic lifeforms, and teleportation, both of which far exceed pre-war technology. You could also include their work with FEV, since Virgil is the only person known to have developed a way to revert someone from being a super mutant, meaning that he surpassed pre-war biotechnology that was supposed to render super mutants immune to that sort of tampering.

They haven't excelled in absolutely every field, but what they have achieved is astonishing and advanced. Had the Institute planned for war in the same way as the Brotherhood (instead of being over-confident in their isolation), the Prydwen would have been destroyed as soon as it entered teleportation range.

They send Synths to spy, because the Institute doesn't want to take over the Surface world. They just want to wait for it to die off. But you're diluded if you don't think they'd order their synths to attack if the people they were spying on found something the Institute wanted.
For example, The Institute spies that come to your wasteland will join in on any Institute Attack that happens on your settlement.
And no, The Institute couldn't take over the Commonwealth by themselves. Not yet at least. Their deadliest fighters are coursiers, Which they are in short supply of. There are plenty of people above ground who are well armed enough to fight off a regular synth invasion. Like The Gunners and Minutemen when they were still together. The Institute doesn't have the resources for full scale war which is why they spend most of their time hiding from the Brotherhood, Who does.


Just because they arrived for one reason doesn't mean they aren't capable of picking up other goals once there. The Institute is the main threat so they give them the Most attention. Maxson could completely ignore most of the Super Mutant threat. But instead he purposly sends out squads to mop them up. Because they are part of the Many mistakes of the Institute.

Origineel geplaatst door Junelicious:

Honestly, screw the brotherhood and the rest.
Greater good is in the progress, not backwards thinking and hoarding ♥♥♥♥.

The Institute might be mostly isolationst in it's current state (save or a couple of incidents) but that can change in the future. True, the don't need anyone and don't care. Other factions really care about others? BoS sure does not, it's only concerned about it's goals (save for a splinter faction in FO3)

The only people that do are the Minutemen, and they might achieve good things but they are probably not going to become big enough to influence the wastes.

The Institute will not be able to sustain a large population without remaking themselves anyway. And when they do grow, I doubt they will look and act the same. If there's any hope to rebuild the civilized society, they're the only group that has the means to do it. Medical tech, abudant GMO food, relocation tech and protection is something people will flock to if offered, regardless of the past.

The Minutemen destroyed themselves due to Betrayal and Money. So they aren't the best example your looking for, lmao.

And the Institute is just waiting around for everyone to die. they are hardly any kind of Guardian Angel.

The Brotherhood are the only ones actively helping the commonwealth with the ability to do it.

Origineel geplaatst door jrr101:

Origineel geplaatst door pleasenoname3:

Lets not forget that every synth settler has killed the human that looks like them, in most cases.

Why if your just having a random synth to wander in and join a community would the copy a living person? The only time they would logically do that is if they wanted a spy in a key position like the diamond city mayor.

They do it all the time. There is even a random encounter event where you run into a synth trying to replace a real person. they both look the same. and you have to decide which one is telling the truth.

They likely don't just have one specific synth agent monitor one specific place and then kill off the synth after. Synth likely aren't cheap to make. They likely kill off a settler, Replace him with a synth, and then send him off from settlement to settlement.

Origineel geplaatst door Rotiart:

Origineel geplaatst door Junelicious:

BoS sure does not, it's only concerned about it's goals (save for a splinter faction in FO3)

Firstly, the BoS are total zealots, they worship the ground that Maxson walks upon, and Maxson says they are there to help the people of the commonwealth, even if Maxson doesn't mean it, pretty much the entire Brotherhood wants to help the commonwealth.
Moreover, the BoS's goals happen to align with stabilizing the Commonwealth. Without the Synths running around killing caravans and drifters, and Kellogg destroying Settlements, the Commonwealth becomes significantly more stable, especially considering most Raiders don't ♥♥♥♥ with Bunker hill caravans, meaning Bunker Hill is more or less safe unless a competing caravan comes along, or they happen upon some gunners. Since Bunker Hill is the largest trading hub in the Commonwealth, this means that just about everything gets around a lot more reliably, obviously helping to stabalize the Commonwealth.

They "Worship" Maxson because of his lineage and his success at being a Leader in such short time. He is almost the living embodiment of everything the brotherhood strives for. When you're a great leader, You get followers who treat you like a god.

And Bunker Hill is "safe" because they pay the raiders not to attack. Lol.

[GoreTiger]

Origineel geplaatst door iCharlie314:

Origineel geplaatst door KrayToast:

How are the Western BOS even remotely close to the Enclave?

I'm not saying they are remotely close to the Enclave, I'm just saying that's about the same level of intolerance I have for them. Truthfully being a Lawful Evil person on the Alightment scale, while I don't like some of the things the Institute has done in the past, I honestly see them as the best option for the Protagonist's future, and quite possibly the commonwealth as a whole depending on how the player's SS chooses to mold them. Obviously that's all headcannon and speculation of course. But to reiterate with what Naveena said, yeah I'm pretty much fine with the replacements depending on the situation, while the Super Mutants are a bit of a setback, they can be dealt with in due time.

I play the game basically as a Lawful Evil character who's goal is basically to unite the Commonwealth under the Institute using the Minuteman and the Nuka World raiders as proxies to form a sort of Dystopian Police State. While it's obviously not the best form of Government possible, it's certainly better than the Commonwealth we arrive in. At least the Settlements are protected and the people have access to better healthcare and better technology than what the Brotherhood would have provided. Personally I feel the Brotherhood would have either just made outposts to loot the commonwealth before continuning on their merry way, I mean sure, to the Institute the Commonwealth is basically they're plaything to Experiment on as they see fit, but at least under it's new (read: my) direction they have a lot to benefit from as a byproduct. d:

Well then it sounds like you just don't like the Institute because they are the only ones capable of standing up to the institute and your "lawful evil" ways.

[πCharlie]

Origineel geplaatst door KrayToast:

Well then it sounds like you just don't like the Institute because they are the only ones capable of standing up to the institute and your "lawful evil" ways.

I'm assuming when you say "why you don't like the Institute" you mean the Brotherhood.
Which no, as far as I'm concnerned with them, I don't like their open hostillity to Ghouls, nor their Tech-hoarding habits as someone who's a bit of a tech-fanatic they're directly in my way to getting what I want. While I 10/10 supported Lyons' Brotherhood, because what they did was for the betterment of the Capital Wasteland and argueably benifited everyone except them in terms of lives lost and resources spent, that version of the Brotherhood died with him it would seem.

Truthfully with "that" version of them gone I believe the "best' course of action would have been the NCR to eventually migrate over and control the Wasteland and Commonwealth (which is funny because I sided with House in New Vegas, but that's beyond the point), but with that being unlikely, I'm more than happy to give it to the group where by me joining I get access to a quality of life that's otherwise unheard of under any other faction, I'm more than content with them. Yeah, they're not keen on directly bettering the above ground, with many of them waiting for them to "die out" I find it much more beneficial to use the commonwealth to better the Institute's resources, and if perhaps I can help the people of the Commonwealth have a better quality of life for the many, even at the cost of the needs of a few, well that's a trade off I'm more than willing to take in a Post-Apocalyptic setting.

Ironically enough my first playthrough I sided with the Brotherhood hoping they'd be more like Lyon's brotherhood, but after seeing that wasn't the case, and seeing to my dismay their need to destroy any technology they either don't understand or can't control, I was instantly revolted with them and decided the Institute was where I belonged.

[DouglasGrave]

Origineel geplaatst door KrayToast:

Origineel geplaatst door DouglasGrave:

They do send infiltrators, who generally do nothing harmful until they eventually get discovered and shot dead for no apparent reason. It's basically like they send settlers to join your settlements.

If the Institute were actually a malignant force, they'd already have torn the surface of the Commonwealth apart.

They send Synths to spy, because the Institute doesn't want to take over the Surface world. They just want to wait for it to die off. But you're diluded if you don't think they'd order their synths to attack if the people they were spying on found something the Institute wanted.
For example, The Institute spies that come to your wasteland will join in on any Institute Attack that happens on your settlement.

Infiltrators typically get killed off by other settlers before the synth force arrives. It's likely that the synth force is sent because the synth settler has been discovered, since it only happens when you have a synth settler, and there isn't anything in the settlement that would otherwise prompt an attack.

As for opportunistically going after a target of interest, that could be said of anyone in the wasteland, and the Institute has far fewer things it cares about up on the surface than most other people.

Origineel geplaatst door KrayToast:

And no, The Institute couldn't take over the Commonwealth by themselves. Not yet at least. Their deadliest fighters are coursiers, Which they are in short supply of. There are plenty of people above ground who are well armed enough to fight off a regular synth invasion. Like The Gunners and Minutemen when they were still together. The Institute doesn't have the resources for full scale war which is why they spend most of their time hiding from the Brotherhood, Who does.

It's not simply about pure force in open confrontation. Teleportation is a massive strategic and tactical advantage, and while coursers are tough, the Gen 1/Gen 2 synths are capable enough to hold their own against comparable forces and the Institute can produce them with ease. The idea of securing the surface was even proposed to the directorate in the past.

If the Institute was operating as a conqueror, their opponents would be facing an army of androids that can be teleported almost anywhere at almost any time, bypassing even the best defenses with little to no warning. Forces like the gunners are tough, but they also fight smart, entrenching themselves in defensible positions that would be useless against the Institute. The Minutemen would have been completely outmatched, since the Institute outpaces them in their own specialty of quick response (which is what the name "Minutemen" is all about; being able to take up arms in defense at a minute's notice).

Origineel geplaatst door KrayToast:

Just because they arrived for one reason doesn't mean they aren't capable of picking up other goals once there. The Institute is the main threat so they give them the Most attention. Maxson could completely ignore most of the Super Mutant threat. But instead he purposly sends out squads to mop them up. Because they are part of the Many mistakes of the Institute.

He has no more focus on super mutants than on raiders, feral ghouls, or any other incidental threat.

Origineel geplaatst door jrr101:

Why if your just having a random synth to wander in and join a community would the copy a living person? The only time they would logically do that is if they wanted a spy in a key position like the diamond city mayor.

They do it all the time. There is even a random encounter event where you run into a synth trying to replace a real person. they both look the same. and you have to decide which one is telling the truth.

They likely don't just have one specific synth agent monitor one specific place and then kill off the synth after. Synth likely aren't cheap to make. They likely kill off a settler, Replace him with a synth, and then send him off from settlement to settlement. [/quote]Synths are easy to make, and it's far easier for the Institute to make one than to abduct someone.

The encounter with Art/Art is strange and atypical, since its reasoning is absurd, and it happens multiple times even if you kill one or both of them. Even if you were replacing someone, you wouldn't send their own copy to take them out. It's not clear exactly what's going on there, but it's far from normal procedure.

Instead, you just make a synth that looks like a random person with a fairly generic made-up background, and send them off to join a settlement. No-one turns away an extra pair of hands on the farm, and there's none of the risk of trying to kidnap someone, accurately replicate their behaviour, and make sure that none of their family members ever meet them and catch on.

[πCharlie]

Alass though, to answer the OP with my opinion. I sided with the Institute because in that situation that's what I'd do, for both my son and myself, I find them the better choice to benefit me. Yes, the Brotherhood have good points on their own, with all-of-them being incorporated into their military which you become a part of when you join them, I as a parent don't like going and both killing Shaun, nor crushing his dreams even if that morally puts me against the grain compared to most, as a parent I've learned that it's me and mine first and foremost. So on that front, I chose the Institute amonst the other reasons I stated. They're a lot easier to infleunce anyways as opposed to the Brotherhood seeing as you are named Director by the end of the Institute's questline, and only Maxon's second-in-command if you choose the Brotherhood's ending. I hope that helps at least shed some light on my choice.

[πCharlie]

Origineel geplaatst door pleasenoname3:

That makes no sense. What is elder Lyons "way of thinking"? It seems to me they share the same values. Why wipe out the west coast faction? Institute tech is not better. Their energy weapons are weaker than pre-war lasers and plasma. Their reactor is pre-war. They can't even manufacture their own reactor. My settlements all look modern and have glass windows with modern toilet facilities. You can build superior living conditions on the surface.

Elder Lyon's nearly all but denounced the Brotherhood Codex's rules in favor for helping the Capital Wasteland by specifically targeting Super Mutants and other irradiated monstrosities. No one realistically has the technological know-how to even build what we today would consider "modern" engineering anymore, especially not the brotherhood who unless it serves a militant purpose they can utilize don't care about it. Truthfully from what I recall the only people who actually have the equipment and raw resources required to "rebuild the wasteland" would be Asher, his followers, and the slaves of the Pitt.

Honestly if I wasn't apart of the Institute, I'd probably go crawl into Vault 81 and never leave, lol. Better a sheltered safe life, than a constant struggle on trying to make it in the wasteland; that sort of freedom to live where and how you want doesn't help you if you're dead, and seeing how my pre-war SS was overweight, unhealthy, and generally a little-♥♥♥♥♥ when it comes to either a fight-or-flight experience, if I can't get the Institute to do the heavy lifting for me, might as well go find myself a nice warm Vault (hole) to crawl myself into. Not like I myself was willing to put in the effort to help rebuild the Commonwealth out of my own blood, sweat and tears (especially not when you can convince others to do it for you). XD

[DouglasGrave]

Origineel geplaatst door iCharlie314:

Truthfully from what I recall the only people who actually have the equipment and raw resources required to "rebuild the wasteland" would be Asher, his followers, and the slaves of the Pitt.

The NCR is probably in the best overall position for rebuilding, and have done more than anyone else to return to being a complete nation. They're even one of the few groups that have active mines and something resembling a production base, rather than relying almost entirely on scavenging for their raw materials.

[πCharlie]

Origineel geplaatst door DouglasGrave:

Origineel geplaatst door iCharlie314:

Truthfully from what I recall the only people who actually have the equipment and raw resources required to "rebuild the wasteland" would be Asher, his followers, and the slaves of the Pitt.

The NCR is probably in the best overall position for rebuilding, and have done more than anyone else to return to being a complete nation. They're even one of the few groups that have active mines and something resembling a production base, rather than relying almost entirely on scavenging for their raw materials.

I actually didn't know the NCR had large-scale operational mines (which I would assume at that rate means they probably have both mills to work the materials, and perhaps locomotives to move said materials)!

Lol, I feel like NCR would be a good choice to be honest, but I feel like it may be a bit before we ever see them on the East Coast, hoping I'm wrong though because out of the bunch we were handed in Fallout 4, I believe the Institute was the best option for me. XD

[DouglasGrave]

Origineel geplaatst door iCharlie314:

Origineel geplaatst door DouglasGrave:

The NCR is probably in the best overall position for rebuilding, and have done more than anyone else to return to being a complete nation. They're even one of the few groups that have active mines and something resembling a production base, rather than relying almost entirely on scavenging for their raw materials.

I actually didn't know the NCR had large-scale operational mines (which I would assume at that rate means they probably have both mills to work the materials, and perhaps locomotives to move said materials)!

Lol, I feel like NCR would be a good choice to be honest, but I feel like it may be a bit before we ever see them on the East Coast, hoping I'm wrong though because out of the bunch we were handed in Fallout 4, I believe the Institute was the best option for me. XD

To be fair, the only mines I remember offhand were gold mines, but they incorporated and used them, showing that they have the means and will to handling mining. They've also done a reasonable bit of empire-building in forging together various communities they encounter to make the republic.

With the right attitude, the means, and an enormous population by post-war standards, there isn't anyone holding a candle to them as an aspiring nation.

[GoreTiger]

Origineel geplaatst door iCharlie314:

Origineel geplaatst door KrayToast:

Well then it sounds like you just don't like the Institute because they are the only ones capable of standing up to the institute and your "lawful evil" ways.

I'm assuming when you say "why you don't like the Institute" you mean the Brotherhood.
Which no, as far as I'm concnerned with them, I don't like their open hostillity to Ghouls, nor their Tech-hoarding habits as someone who's a bit of a tech-fanatic they're directly in my way to getting what I want. While I 10/10 supported Lyons' Brotherhood, because what they did was for the betterment of the Capital Wasteland and argueably benifited everyone except them in terms of lives lost and resources spent, that version of the Brotherhood died with him it would seem.

Truthfully with "that" version of them gone I believe the "best' course of action would have been the NCR to eventually migrate over and control the Wasteland and Commonwealth (which is funny because I sided with House in New Vegas, but that's beyond the point), but with that being unlikely, I'm more than happy to give it to the group where by me joining I get access to a quality of life that's otherwise unheard of under any other faction, I'm more than content with them. Yeah, they're not keen on directly bettering the above ground, with many of them waiting for them to "die out" I find it much more beneficial to use the commonwealth to better the Institute's resources, and if perhaps I can help the people of the Commonwealth have a better quality of life for the many, even at the cost of the needs of a few, well that's a trade off I'm more than willing to take in a Post-Apocalyptic setting.

Ironically enough my first playthrough I sided with the Brotherhood hoping they'd be more like Lyon's brotherhood, but after seeing that wasn't the case, and seeing to my dismay their need to destroy any technology they either don't understand or can't control, I was instantly revolted with them and decided the Institute was where I belonged.

Yeah I meant the Brotherhood, Was in the middle of doing a mission in GTA and swapping windows when I typed that.

The Brotherhood doesn't like ghouls, But they tolerate them. They don't go gunning down every ghoul they see, But they've spent their lives fighting the nuclear abominations. Like Ferals. And every brotherhood member knows that every ghoul they meet is basically a ticking timebomb. So I don't blame them one bit for not liking them. I don't like ghouls much ether tbh.

And so you hate that the brotherhood does basically exactly what you do? Horde Technology? Thats a bit hypocritical.
Lyons brotherhood was Nice, But He was a bit of a fool. He didn't have the resources,Manpower,Or weapons at his disposal to continue to fight an Open war against the super mutants of the CW like he did. He caused the Western Brotherhood to cut contact with him, He got a quarter of his manpower killed off fighting at the pitt, and all it did was install a traitor into power, And he further split his forces by causing the Outcast to leave. Lyons made a lot of crucial mistakes. It's a miracle they were able to fight off the Enclave. Realisticly the Enclave should of decimated them.
The NCR right now is a Bloated, Corrupt Government trying to land-grab everything they want. You complain about the way the Brotherhood treats ghouls, and yet you support the NCR? The NCR will actively take over your land, Force you to pay their taxes, and if you don't agree, throw you out of your house and sell your land off to the highest brahmin rancher. The NCR right now doesn't care very much about the little people. They care about grabbing up as much property as they can, and it almost cost them dearly. They stretched their forces and their supply lines too far, which is why Ceaser's legion was such a big threat to them. Not to mention all the corrupt in-fighting among their own caravan companies and ranchers. The Brotherhood at Least doesn't suffer from such a corrupt disease that the NCR does. And all the Brotherhood will do is take away that 1 of a kind ultra special X-900 Lazer rifle you have, and force payment onto you for it. Unlike the NCR who will claim you as their citizen wether you want to be or not and take everything from you if you don't pay their taxes. Kind of Hypocritical again.

So Basically you're in agreement with the Institute: The Above-ground should just be milked dry for the Institute's gain and then Die off, And then you want to complain about how the Brotherhood acts? Lol Wew Boi.

You need to go relook over the real reasons you hate the brotherhood and love the Institute so much. If you like playing Hitler 2.0 thats fine, But at least openly admit to it.

[GoreTiger]

Origineel geplaatst door DouglasGrave:

Origineel geplaatst door KrayToast:

They send Synths to spy, because the Institute doesn't want to take over the Surface world. They just want to wait for it to die off. But you're diluded if you don't think they'd order their synths to attack if the people they were spying on found something the Institute wanted.
For example, The Institute spies that come to your wasteland will join in on any Institute Attack that happens on your settlement.

Infiltrators typically get killed off by other settlers before the synth force arrives. It's likely that the synth force is sent because the synth settler has been discovered, since it only happens when you have a synth settler, and there isn't anything in the settlement that would otherwise prompt an attack.

As for opportunistically going after a target of interest, that could be said of anyone in the wasteland, and the Institute has far fewer things it cares about up on the surface than most other people.

Origineel geplaatst door KrayToast:

And no, The Institute couldn't take over the Commonwealth by themselves. Not yet at least. Their deadliest fighters are coursiers, Which they are in short supply of. There are plenty of people above ground who are well armed enough to fight off a regular synth invasion. Like The Gunners and Minutemen when they were still together. The Institute doesn't have the resources for full scale war which is why they spend most of their time hiding from the Brotherhood, Who does.

It's not simply about pure force in open confrontation. Teleportation is a massive strategic and tactical advantage, and while coursers are tough, the Gen 1/Gen 2 synths are capable enough to hold their own against comparable forces and the Institute can produce them with ease. The idea of securing the surface was even proposed to the directorate in the past.

If the Institute was operating as a conqueror, their opponents would be facing an army of androids that can be teleported almost anywhere at almost any time, bypassing even the best defenses with little to no warning. Forces like the gunners are tough, but they also fight smart, entrenching themselves in defensible positions that would be useless against the Institute. The Minutemen would have been completely outmatched, since the Institute outpaces them in their own specialty of quick response (which is what the name "Minutemen" is all about; being able to take up arms in defense at a minute's notice).

Origineel geplaatst door KrayToast:

Just because they arrived for one reason doesn't mean they aren't capable of picking up other goals once there. The Institute is the main threat so they give them the Most attention. Maxson could completely ignore most of the Super Mutant threat. But instead he purposly sends out squads to mop them up. Because they are part of the Many mistakes of the Institute.

He has no more focus on super mutants than on raiders, feral ghouls, or any other incidental threat.

Origineel geplaatst door jrr101:

Why if your just having a random synth to wander in and join a community would the copy a living person? The only time they would logically do that is if they wanted a spy in a key position like the diamond city mayor.

They do it all the time. There is even a random encounter event where you run into a synth trying to replace a real person. they both look the same. and you have to decide which one is telling the truth.

They likely don't just have one specific synth agent monitor one specific place and then kill off the synth after. Synth likely aren't cheap to make. They likely kill off a settler, Replace him with a synth, and then send him off from settlement to settlement.

Synths are easy to make, and it's far easier for the Institute to make one than to abduct someone.

The encounter with Art/Art is strange and atypical, since its reasoning is absurd, and it happens multiple times even if you kill one or both of them. Even if you were replacing someone, you wouldn't send their own copy to take them out. It's not clear exactly what's going on there, but it's far from normal procedure.

Instead, you just make a synth that looks like a random person with a fairly generic made-up background, and send them off to join a settlement. No-one turns away an extra pair of hands on the farm, and there's none of the risk of trying to kidnap someone, accurately replicate their behaviour, and make sure that none of their family members ever meet them and catch on. [/quote]
Usually the Synth Infiltrator will be the first one to attack since it's already in the middle of your camp, which is why it's usually the first one killed. They usually try to attack important resources in your settlements from what I've seen. I've had a few who randomly started shooting at my generators, and people attached to my scrap stations. The Infiltrator mainly just spies, builds up info, then informs the institute when it's best to attack, Like when you're not around.

The Institute can't teleport EVERYWHERES. There are alot of places in the commonwealth that interfere with the signal. It's why Coursiers usually zap-in inside the College instead of wherever they need to go. It's where the strongest signal is. Plus realisticly the Institute only has 2 teleporters that from what Ive seen take 30 seconds to charge in between teleportation. Theres no way they could impliment it in an attack that would make it successful other than zapping in a far distance away from whatever their planning to attack, if they can at all.
Not to mention they are trying to keep their teleportation a SECRET.

Gen 1/2s are "tough", But stupid, And easily defeated by organized groups. Groups like the Gunners and the Minutemen could easily slaughter them at a rate the Institute couldn't catch up to creating them.
Also even tho it's not fully explained, the institute relies on Above-ground resources to build their synths. They have to, there is no raw materials down in the institute. If war broke out, their resource operations would likely be discovered which would bode ill for them.
And the proposed plan for the institute to secure the above ground was through infiltration and puppet leaders. Not open warfare.

If the Institute was trying to act as a conquerer, They wouldn't do a very good job. They can't teleport wherever they want to. The teleportation depends on the strengh of the radio signal. They have a limited amount of Synths, And an even fewer amount of Coursiers. And once their above-ground assets start being wiped out, The Institute will lose their only ways of producing more.

The Institutes only real advantage is the fact no one knows where they are. But it would be suicide for them to go to war. Not only would they lose, But they would lose most their above-ground assets and likely never be able to recover them. They'd run out of raw materials for their experiments, and the whole commonwealth would be united in hunting them down. In the end, they'd be trapped down in that hole in the ground until their supplies ran out, and they all died.

[GoreTiger]

Origineel geplaatst door iCharlie314:

Origineel geplaatst door DouglasGrave:

The NCR is probably in the best overall position for rebuilding, and have done more than anyone else to return to being a complete nation. They're even one of the few groups that have active mines and something resembling a production base, rather than relying almost entirely on scavenging for their raw materials.

I actually didn't know the NCR had large-scale operational mines (which I would assume at that rate means they probably have both mills to work the materials, and perhaps locomotives to move said materials)!

Lol, I feel like NCR would be a good choice to be honest, but I feel like it may be a bit before we ever see them on the East Coast, hoping I'm wrong though because out of the bunch we were handed in Fallout 4, I believe the Institute was the best option for me. XD

The NCR has working mines, working tains, and factories. But only because they forced people to accept being governed by them. Refer to my response to w.e his name is for more.

[πCharlie]

I actually didn't know they tolerated ghouls much anymore other than the time I brought Handcock above the Prydwyn on my first Character even though they were very rude to him. To be frank I feel like Lyon's brotherhood may have been even worse in that regard. So I actually agree with you on that point. But yeah I dislike them mostly because more than likely I wouldn't qualify to join the brotherhood (now if I could be a Scribe that'd be a different story). But I mean the hypocritcal thing isn't wrong, in an Apocalyptic world you always have to watch out for yourself first and foremost- "saving" the Commonwealth should always be a second priority, and I just feel that my feeble--ass--self would be a lot safer and much more protected in the Institute rather than in an active-duty scenario, but to be fair, realistically my character wouldn't have survived Kellog unless he lit him up as he was trying to talk to him (which is usually what I do) and certainly not the hacking of Liberty Prime (rest in piece my mechanical marvel, you shall be dearly missed) without a full platoon of Coursers which while would be possible, isn't likely giving the Institute's issues at the time of that happening in the story. I do appreciate this discussion though, I may have to make a new character just to revist how the New East Coast division handles things, I quite miss some of those characters, well except Maxon of course. xD