Survival Mode: Automatics

[Zardnaar]

The general assumption injh this game is that semi automatics are better than automatics and automatics are bad in survival mode.

However if you get a good legendary automatic effect (elemental, wounding, kneecapping, exploding, two shot etc) automatics>semi automatics.

I played the infiltrator type build in my 1st survival game for my second I went commando. I had already decided that the plan was to use heavy armor and build around the spray and pray (commando+demolition+ exploding bubble head) with a side helping of the overseers guardian/Old Faithful and the Righteous Authority. I basically went 6 cha+intelligence and 3 or 4 most of the other scores. No dump stats.

I also planned on taking lone wanderer, lockpicking, hacker, scrounger, gun nut, science, armorer, perks along with chemist rank 1 and medic rank 1.

In survival mode I also know that legendary weapons drop more frequently. I figured it would be a safe bet something nice would drop, at the worst I get to use Spray and Pray, grenades and Overseers Guardian.

At best I was hoping for an exploding combat rifle or assualt rifle, a knee capping pipe weapon or assault rifle.

So how did it compare are autos a better option? In general I think I would say yes. A late game rifleman/sneak is very nasty but it is also kinda semi boring and takes a long time to come online and you are still vulnerable to surprise attacks.

By comparison at the low and md levels (14-30 or so) I found Commando did make the game a lot easier. Pipe weapons may not be very good but the pipe auto pistol is not to bad and with commando I actually liked it. That and the 10mm were my default weapons early game although I knew where to get a combat rifle at the blood bank near Fort Hagen which I got at level 3 in a non survival game. In survival I figured I would just go for the Overseers Guardian instead as it is a lot easier to get to.

Auto 10mm and pipe weapons early on were also good vs swarms of bloat flies and stingwings that infest the NW part of the map. I did retrieve the short rifle from the pond SW of the dinner and the .44 near santuary (and then failed to find any ammo for it).

I did not have to buy much in the way of ammo early on.I was level 13 before leaving sanctuary, got to diamond city around level 20, and got the Righteous Authority fairly early on as well- which I teched out as an auto. The Pay and Spray and Overseers Guardian followed in fairly short order. I beelined for the T-51 armor set near the old church and later jonied the BoS and got the free T-60B (which I barely used).

I was using PA for almost all of the mission before level 30 and I used the T-51 which I upgraded to T51D then E and left it there. T-51F is roughly equivilent to X0-1 mk I armor. By the time I could upgrade the T-51E armor to F I had found suits of X0-1 armor of which I have 4 complete suits and 3 suits that are complete except for the right leg + some left over spare parts.

Due to resource cost the T-51E is my workhorse armor even though I have 3 suits of type VI X0-1 armor now (1 jetpack, 1 tractor , 1 semi tracto build with flames paint.builds). A tractor build armor for me has.

Calibrated shocks.
Motorised Torso (+2 strength)
Military or BoS paint.

The T-51E did not get upgraded to F as I was using the resources on the XO armor and the E was good enough for all my misisons. I only used the XO armor to clear gunners plaza, the T-51 was used on the Junkyard and Fallons department and most other tough areas such as Saugus Ironworks. I have not been to Quincy yet.
All my armor in the head has the +2 intelligence mod.

Now for the weapons. As I said I had hopes of getting certain weapon types, but was fairly confident of getting some great drops regardless. The best weapns I managed to find via RNG are.

10mm twin shot
Kneecapper shotgun
Knee capper combat rifle
Cryo infused Plasma rifle
Wounding shot gun

Of course I equipped everything as an auto. Early game I kept getting legendary armor. Other weapons of note that I use sometimes.

25% Vats reduction assault rifle
25% Vats reduction 10mm
25% VATs reduction plasma rifle
+50% damage robots plasma rifle
+50% damage human laser rifle
+50% damage ghoul assault rifle

I also have various wounding/instigating etc effect on single shot weapons and several legendary missile launchers and mini guns that I do not use.

So how do I get aorund the autos using more ammo effect? I have the scrounger perk, sometmes I buy ammo but generally I rotate the wepons I use. 10mm ammo is fairly common along with fusion cells so Old Faithful gets used a bit as well. I also use VATs a bit along with burst fire I rarely fire on full auto. Most of the time I am not using the "big guns" (the cryo plasma rifle, the wounding combat rifle, the Pay and Spray/Overseers Guardian,

I also vary the load out depending on what i am hunting. Jamiaca Plains ins and the national guard area out comes the +50% ghoul slayer assault rifle.

Most things just get melted even with non legendary weapon or the VATS reducing weapons. I can line up X4 shots with the twin shot 10mm auto or 6 with the VATS one. Tougher enemies I save my crits for or if I have the knee capper assault rifle on me I use that+ frag grenades. By tougher enemies I mean Mirelurk Queens, Behromoths, Legendary Deathclaws, Skull Radscorpions etc. I can wander into the glowing see with no armor on no rad X being used, no balistic weave and come out the other side with a dead deathclaw or 2, 10 rad scorpions of various kinds (lvl 54 now).

I also tend to prefer assault rifles over combat rifles. 80 round magazine vs 40, less recoil, faster reloading. If I had a twin shot assault rifle I would use it over the Overseers Guardian (or use both).

The only ammo I generally buy are plasma rounds and 10mm/45. I have a crate in Hangmans Ally with around 1000 rounds of 5.56mm, 45mm, 700 10mm etc so I do not even really buy those anymore unless I am a distance from Hangmans ally and need ammo bad. I norrmally carry around 300-400 rounds for my guns, always have the 10mm twin shot on me and usually carry an energy weapon of some type on me (light ammo, good enough vs most enemies). I usually carry 3-5 guns . 3 guns would be something like Pay and Spray or Wounding shotgun, the Overseers Guardia or the plasma rifle and my 10mm. 4 or 5 guns are usually old faithful, the 10mm, Rigteous authority, one of the good rifles, and perhaps the plasma gun or 25% VATs reduction 10mm for farming the crit meter (or I use the Righteous Authority for that).

So yeah thats about it. IMHO survival mode for most of the game autos>rifles and tank around in power armor. Late game stealth build might be better YMMV based on legendary drops but autos are more fun IMHO. Commando perk can be applied to pistols and rifles and you tend to get copious amounts of ammo with the scrounger perk anyway (which I would be inclined to take with a rifle build as well). Even with semis extra ammo= caps. I think my base damage was something like +140% auto weapons and +95% demolitions.

Also happy with the uality of the legendary weapons although I did want a nice pipe weapon legendary which I did not find (except on a bolt action pistol). Carrying lots of ammo was not really a problem with p[ower armor (tractor builds), chems and later on party boy and liberl uses of alcohol and I could get my carry weigfht up to over 500 (417 base).

[Neutralize]

A fully upgraded and perked automatic Splatter Cannon/Problem Solver can pretty much shred every single enemy in the game in a matter of seconds.

[Minty]

The higher up in levels I go, the more I realize that builds are only relevant in the very early game. At this point, I can kill pretty much anything with... well... anything. Including my bare fists. And I haven't failed a passify/command attempt in ages.

It doesn't get boring though. Somehow. I think because I don't stick to doing just one thing. One and two dimensional characters have shelf lives, and they tend to expire and you want to start something new. I say let your character change and pick up new styles constantly.

[Xilo The Odd]

yeah im running my first automatics/Big guns character now, i to once ran under the assumption that, semi auto was for the more skilled and more damaging weapons. i was kinda right. a .50 cal hunting rifle with the double damage to targets at full HP effect on em pretty much drop most things from vats.

then it dawned on me, its no longer about skill anymore at that point just min maxing the weapon type.

so big guns and autos from now on, occasional semi auto for ammo types that arent used in full autos.

[Neutralize]

Originally posted by Eddie:

The higher up in levels I go, the more I realize that builds are only relevant in the very early game. At this point, I can kill pretty much anything with... well... anything. Including my bare fists. And I haven't failed a passify/command attempt in ages.

It doesn't get boring though. Somehow. I think because I don't stick to doing just one thing. One and two dimensional characters have shelf lives, and they tend to expire and you want to start something new. I say let your character change and pick up new styles constantly.

I agree with this general sentiment. It's a lot funner to just use what you want, and anything is really viable. Variety is the spice of life.

But automatics are plain and simple THE best DPS in the game, bar things like factoring in Legendary effects or of course explosives (hey, it's still technically a second :P). Though DPS probably matters a lot less against the vast majority of things when you can easily one-two shot with a properly perked and kitted Rifleman build.

Still, when it comes to situations where I'm getting charged by something truly terrifying and beefy, it's always the automatic I pull out of my pockets to hose them down with before they get close enough to eat my face. Plus that stagger chance from Commando, yum.

[Captain Australia]

The higher up in levels I go, the more I realize that builds are only relevant in the very early game.

This. Absolutely.

[Yhwach]

I didn't know survival mode had anything to do with Europa

[Zardnaar]

I had played rifle and pistol builds before kicking it up to survival.

A lot of things died in 1 shot/burst as well so it similar enough to a rifle build except for range I suppose. Most encounters range doesn't matte r that much.

I liked the armor thing though, less micro than screwing around with individual armor parts and doing the railroad quests for ballistic weave.

I think I ended up with a few more ranks in chemist and medic as well.