Battle of Bunker Hill

[dietz.martin]

Hi,
I'm doing the Battle of Bunker Hill quest, and I informed the railroad but didn't want to inform the Brotherhood, as I feared that they will come and shoot everyone (even civilians to pieces). Nevertheless, after I speak with X3 a vertibird appears, the Brotherhood comes and the fight starts before we're even in Bunker Hill. The Brotherhood not only fights the Synths but even fights against the railroad .

As the quest itself seems to be done after having killed X3 and his two Synths that come (I'm asked to report back to Father), I wonder if there is a way to keep them out of the way and do this as covered operation, only attacking the institute when they feel safe before they start returniung the Synths. At least that was, how I understood Desdemona how this operation should continue.

Regards
M.Dietz

New info: I tried to inform the Brotherhood, to check whether this is some strange script logic problem, of interpreting that quest flag, but the alsop the battle starts as battle and everyone seems to fight against everyone else (civilinas against Railroad is what me bothers most.)

[AlexMBrennan]

Unsurprisingly given that the quest is named Battle of Bunker Hill there will be a battle at Bunker Hill no matter what you do; as with much of the game the options to inform the RR/BOS are there to make you feel like your actions have some impact on the outcome when they really don't.

[dietz.martin]

"Battle" was understood by me as a battle between Railroad and the Instuitute, and that can start soon enough when we enter the railroad bunker. I don't want the Brotherhood to go to Bunker Hill and even kill people that only live there, or people that also fight the institute ("enemy of my enemy")! Hey, ifthere are railroad, Brotherhood and institutes troop shooting at each other, it even seems that the Brotherhood sides with the Institute to kill the Railroad Agents as both prefer to kill the railroad instead of each others...

What is really annoying me is that the Brotherhood also fights against the Railroad, and I even saw fights between Railroad and civilians, so I hoped to have a way to reduce the battle to the railraod bunker there. I don't even know whom I should protect when I see a SB-knight if full power suit shooting at a railroad agent and spotting e.g. Kessler or Deb in that crossfire.

OK, it seems like this is another stupid quest script not even being able to deliver what was promised to the gamer, and I have to hope that misteriously all "good" people have survived that battle when I come back later.

[Xyzzy]

all you gotta do is kill courser before he speaks. Done. None will harm you now.
Go in cit building up to roof tell Father your decision re prisoners.

[AlexMBrennan]

all you gotta do is kill courser before he speaks

Technically you are correct but if you are aligned with the railroad it makes no sense to let the BOS kill the synths you are supposedly there to protect.

[danconnors]

Actually your actions decide the fate of the synths. Do they go free? Are they recaptured? Are they killed? It's all your choice. On your choice depends the fate of humanity, all of it.

I wonder what would happen if you took absolutely no part in the battle. Would it still be raging three days later, if you returned?

The 3rd generation synths represent the greatest threat to humanity since the Black Death in the middle ages. Rest assured the third generation synths would eventually produce 4th gen. synths, the 4th--5th, and very quickly the human race would be vastly inferior to the new race.

The synths might be humane, and confine us to reservations. But our continuance as the dominant species would be over. The only choice that is pro human is to destroy the Institute and every synth.

The Railroad thinks it's doing good freeing what are, in effect, slaves. But their actions result in disasters they haven't even considered. Clearly even level 3 synths are mentally and physically superior to the vast majority of human beings. Note the first one you are sent to capture for the Institute has taken over a large gang of human raiders.

Much as I hate the genocidal tendencies of the BOS, their victory is essential if the human race is going to remain Earth's dominant species. The Institute represents the extreme result of hubris, thinking they can control and use as slaves beings superior already to 90% of them. Beings, who within decades will be superior to every human being. They--the Institute--must be destroyed if humanity is to survive.

[dietz.martin]

Originally posted by Xyzzy:

all you gotta do is kill courser before he speaks. Done. None will harm you now.
Go in cit building up to roof tell Father your decision re prisoners.

none is harming me in my way around bunker hill anyway. all are green in the V.A.T.S. but they are harming each others, and I only want the institute synths to be harmed. I'm sided with the Brotherhood AND the railroad and try to fulfill both needs as long as they don't confilct.

[danconnors]

You will not be allowed to remain allied with both. They are mortal enemies.

[Xyzzy]

Originally posted by dietz.martin:

Originally posted by Xyzzy:

all you gotta do is kill courser before he speaks. Done. None will harm you now.
Go in cit building up to roof tell Father your decision re prisoners.

none is harming me in my way around bunker hill anyway. all are green in the V.A.T.S. but they are harming each others, and I only want the institute synths to be harmed. I'm sided with the Brotherhood AND the railroad and try to fulfill both needs as long as they don't confilct.

all ok that just ignore the battle and go see Father, tell him in dialogue, sorry I killed them, or I saved them or whatever, it all happens at Father on roof. The bos and railroad fight anyway you can't stop the battle, so leave the area go cit roof.

[EolSunder]

The battle includes all 3 factions, wether you inform them or not. informing them really doesn't change anything you can just skip that part unless your roleplaying. The brotherhood and Railroad will become enemies if you follow those 2 faction lines, you can basically skip any hostility between the 2 if you follow the Minutemen questline, etc.

If you follow the Brotherhood or railroad completely through then they will become enemies.

If you follow the institute they won't because you'll be wiping them both out, they won't survive long enough to fight each other really.

If you follow the minutemen you can just stop the brotherhood questline/railroad when you reach the quests where they try to wipe out each other, basically sticking them in the background while you finish your Minutemen questline. You really don't worry about them after you beat the Institute. The Brotherhoods main reason for coming was to take out the Institute, and probably will move on after you do that, and the Railroad doesn't have any new synths to smuggle out anymore so they probably will fade away after moving out the few synths they are currently hiding.

[dietz.martin]

Originally posted by danconnors:

The 3rd generation synths represent the greatest threat to humanity since the Black Death in the middle ages. Rest assured the third generation synths would eventually produce 4th gen. synths, the 4th--5th, and very quickly the human race would be vastly inferior to the new race.

I disagree. Synths were meant to be the fate of humanity if they could reproduce or evolve without the help of the Institute, but watching how they were produced, and assuming that all their memories are deleted by the Railroad I doubt that any Synth can even repair himself, should he/she be damaged.

After the synths are "freed" they are individuals like men (except the fact that they don't need food and that they are immune to radiation), so they should be granted the same rights and be punished like them.

Originally posted by danconnors:

The only choice that is pro human is to destroy the Institute and every synth.
They--the Institute--must be destroyed if humanity is to survive.

Here you're right. Eliminate the source and the threat will be decrease to zero.

Anyway, thanks for your comments, I finished the quest and everything seems normal now, I'm still a fellow member of all 3 fraction (4 if you count the Minutemen as well, but they didn't had any business in the Bunker Hill battle.

[Minty]

Originally posted by dietz.martin:

Here you're right. Eliminate the source and the threat will be decrease to zero.

Anyway, thanks for your comments, I finished the quest and everything seems normal now, I'm still a fellow member of all 3 fraction (4 if you count the Minutemen as well, but they didn't had any business in the Bunker Hill battle.

This does not occur. Destroying the Institute does not stem synth production at all. Institute remnants will continue to produce Gen 1, 2 and 3 synths even if you torch thier HQ. Siding with the Railroad is only a means to destroy the HQ and free the current contingent of Gen 3s so that they can be reprogrammed and smuggled out of the Commonwealth.

The only real effect this has is to free them of mind control and spread them across the wasteland without any knowledge that they were, in fact, grown in a lab and implanted with a mind control device.

The Railroad is not about saving the world or securing the future of humanity; their crusade is a moral one that has very specific and limited goals. The way I roleplayed it was that I used them as a tool to eliminate greater threats to my chaotic neutralness.

[EolSunder]

destroying the institute does stop synth production because that is where they are made stupid. You can even walk into the building room when you visit the institute. What a dumb statement. If you nuke the site, the building process is destroyed and they can't be produced anymore.

And again, you cannot free Synths of mind control, or what ever you are calling it. Its called programming, they are robots. They have base codes programmed into their system which can be used to control them, or shut them off. They are hard programmed into them at creation and can't be deleted or changed. They can be shut down at any time, even if their regular memory is wiped or replaced with other memory chips, the hardwired basecodes are still in their system no matter what. Thus, they can always be controlled with their command codes. The only way to eliminate this is to destroy any knowledge of the command codes such as destroying the institute, and/or anyone that already knows the base codes.

[Minty]

Originally posted by EolSunder:

destroying the institute does stop synth production because that is where they are made stupid. You can even walk into the building room when you visit the institute. What a dumb statement. If you nuke the site, the building process is destroyed and they can't be produced anymore.

And again, you cannot free Synths of mind control, or what ever you are calling it. Its called programming, they are robots.

Ok, but, the Institute remnants continue to produce synths at other locations and attack you and your settlements. Forever. I didn't make that up. It happens in the game. You understand this, yes? And a Gen 3 is a human. It's a clone. The game makes this clear. Many times. The Institute confirms it. They have bones, blood, organs and brains. They were cloned from Shaun. They are not machines. At all. They have a chip that controls thier brains.

This is all, again, made clear if you pay attention. At all.

[Zekiran]

Originally posted by Eddie:

Ok, but, the Institute remnants continue to produce synths at other locations and attack you and your settlements. Forever. I didn't make that up. It happens in the game. You understand this, yes? And a Gen 3 is a human. It's a clone. The game makes this clear. Many times. The Institute confirms it. They have bones, blood, organs and brains. They were cloned from Shaun. They are not machines. At all. They have a chip that controls thier brains.

This is all, again, made clear if you pay attention. At all.

There are no other locations where G3 synths are created. DiMA knows that and says that if you discuss Synths with him in Far Harbor. There are *a lot* of G2s and G1s left. But there are no more being made - as the people controlling the machinery are *also blown to bits*. Along with the machinery to do so.

Where ever they are coming from? It isn't the Institute as we know it. They are more than likely just like the Mechanist's rogue bots - leftovers with whatever passes for "last orders" to destroy everything they find. It's just a game mechanic that they continue spawning as much as they do.

I mean, when you blow the Prydwin out of the sky, BOS troops continue dropping in. You'd think they would be intelligent enough *not* to mess with the location that took down that airship, but... there they are too.