What Became Of Project Purity?

[danconnors]

One reason I have no problem with the Aqua boy/girl perk is that it shouldn't be needed anyway. This adventure takes place at about the same time as James is perfecting Project Purity in DC. The aim of Purity is to make ALL the water in the region nonradioactive.

You know it's the same time frame after talking to the acting head of Synth Retention in the Institute and finding out whose place he took. The Institute guy you killed in Fallout 3 to save the runaway courser (and get his weapon).

Project Purity suceeded in DC, apparently by way of the GECK (garden of eden creation kit (results may vary)). The GECK is apparently the size of a suitcase and able to be mass produced. All vaults were originally supposed to be equipped with one.

If it worked in DC it should work elsewhere. I know radioactive water was done away with in New Vegas (mostly), but in the Commonwealth, just a hop, skip, and a jump from DC, the water still sucks. Disregarding the fact that water is not still going to be radioactive 210 years after a nuclear war, it should still be potable and swimmable because a GECK should have cleaned it up by now.

[Michael]

Автор сообщения: danconnors

Let's put it differenty. Dr. Li originally lived in the DC area. She was there when Project Purity went into full scale operation--after the main enclave force was destroyed. She knows everything there is to know about Project Purity.

As a responsible, and I think moral scientist, she would have seen to it when she arrived in the Commonwealth that Project Purity was implemented there also. Being intimately connected to the Institute she would have access to technology sufficient to do the job.

Knowing her as I remember from Fallout 3 she would have brow beaten "Father" constantly until he caved, and allowed the Commonwealth's water to be made safe. If the Institute obstinately refused to go along with her, it would just be one more indication of how truly evil the Institute is. It has the ability to clean up the water, and it refuses to do so. That's EVIL.

The Commonwealth's water is the Atlantic ocean... that's kind of a big ask. It would require the Institute to operate a large, conspicuous, and resource-intensive facility on the surface indefinitely... and it would be salt water they are purifying. I can't see them agreeing to that. They have clean water, and they've pretty much written off the surface dwellers.

Maybe more to the point, Bethesda seems to be really keen to have their Fallout games retain a certain tone... both Fallout 3 and 4 make it feel like the bombs dropped a generation or so ago and things are still a complete shambles for the most part. I think they realized that if they have the technology to clean up radiation spread throughout their world they won't be able to keep up that tone in future games, so they are going to quietly drop that storyline aside from maybe a reference here and there.

[danconnors]

I'm talking about the rivers emptying into the ocean. As for the ocean itself, with an average depth of two miles and a water volume of 260 million cubic miles, there's no way in Hell any possible nuclear war could make that much water radioactive.

Really, though, Fallout New Vegas had clean, non radioactive water, and that didn't bother me at all. I'm more bothered having to suspend my disbelief that river and lake water would become permanently radioactive after a nuclear war. Fallout doen't dissolve in water. It sinks to the bottom. Over time it loses its radioactivity as it decays. The more violently radioactive stuff decays very quickly, and the less radioactive stuff is...less radioactive.

[igloosfolly]

In fallout new vegas the well water was contaminated if i remember right .

[Incunabulum]

Автор сообщения: danconnors

Let's put it differenty. Dr. Li originally lived in the DC area. She was there when Project Purity went into full scale operation--after the main enclave force was destroyed. She knows everything there is to know about Project Purity.

As a responsible, and I think moral scientist, she would have seen to it when she arrived in the Commonwealth that Project Purity was implemented there also. Being intimately connected to the Institute she would have access to technology sufficient to do the job.

Knowing her as I remember from Fallout 3 she would have brow beaten "Father" constantly until he caved, and allowed the Commonwealth's water to be made safe. If the Institute obstinately refused to go along with her, it would just be one more indication of how truly evil the Institute is. It has the ability to clean up the water, and it refuses to do so. That's EVIL.

1. Maybe she doesn't.

2. That's not evil at all. The Instutute has other priorities - stuff they think will do more good for the Commonwealth than purifying water and chose to not pull resources from (and delay) this other project to do so.

3. The Instutute *is* evil. They're protrayed as evil throughout the whole game. The only time anyone comes up with a rational plan is when they describe what they're doing to you - except they're not actually doing what they say they are. They flat out lie to your face about what they're doing on the surface despite *knowing* that you've been there and are intimately familiar with their activities there. They're evil and bugshit insane to boot.

[Incunabulum]

Автор сообщения: danconnors

I'm talking about the rivers emptying into the ocean. As for the ocean itself, with an average depth of two miles and a water volume of 260 million cubic miles, there's no way in Hell any possible nuclear war could make that much water radioactive.

Really, though, Fallout New Vegas had clean, non radioactive water, and that didn't bother me at all. I'm more bothered having to suspend my disbelief that river and lake water would become permanently radioactive after a nuclear war. Fallout doen't dissolve in water. It sinks to the bottom. Over time it loses its radioactivity as it decays. The more violently radioactive stuff decays very quickly, and the less radioactive stuff is...less radioactive.

1. Minerals - which fallout is made of - dissolve in water.

2. Sinking to the bottom doesn't do much when there is churn mixing bottom mud with water and when the dry surface is constantly repleneshing anything that precipitates out.

3. The low-level stuff is what is the most dangerous. Its pervasive and constant and persists for years.

4. The real question is why Bethesda thinks *anything* will be radiated 200 years later, not that where it is will be dangerous. The 7/10 rule man. Increase the time by seven, cut the intensity by 10. At 7 hours the intensity is 1/10 of what it was at 1 hour. At 49 hours, 1/100. At two weeks its 1/1,000. At a century its 1/10,000,000th. At 2 centuries its approximately 1/55,000,000th the intensity.

[Vinnie Mack]

i love the aquamarine perk, but wish Bethesda would have done more with it. All that water, and nothing to do or see. I am hoping the Creation Club gives us some good content that involves water and the aqua perk. I would also like to see more mutation like perks in Fallout universe. i can think of all kinds of them, from better vision to higher jump height. If there isn't a mutation perk mod out there, someone should make one.

[Buck]

Автор сообщения: danconnors

The aim of Purity is to make ALL the water in the region nonradioactive

"Region" != a city 300+ miles away

[danconnors]

Dust, which fallout is, sinks to the bottom of water. As it churns and bubbles, it is pushed inexorably toward the sea, where it dissipates into the vastness of the oceans. I brought up the 7/10 rule in a previous thread, and you're right. After two centuries there would be no fallout left. Another wierd question. If the radioactive water is caused by fallout in the dirt washing into the water, why don't we get irradiated while walking on dirt.

If the water's as violently radioactive as is made out (around 10 rads a second last time I checked) just getting out of the water wouldn't help you. You'd have to scurry at least 100 feet to put enough air between you and the water for the air to shield you from the radiation. The whole thing is extremely hard to suspend disbelief over.

Which is why I have no trouble at all with the aqua boy/girl perk. As far as I can tell everyone in the Fallout world has it. Otherwise they'd pick up a lethal dose of radiation after spending 60 seconds in water.

[Michael]

Автор сообщения: danconnors

I'm talking about the rivers emptying into the ocean. As for the ocean itself, with an average depth of two miles and a water volume of 260 million cubic miles, there's no way in Hell any possible nuclear war could make that much water radioactive.

Really, though, Fallout New Vegas had clean, non radioactive water, and that didn't bother me at all. I'm more bothered having to suspend my disbelief that river and lake water would become permanently radioactive after a nuclear war. Fallout doen't dissolve in water. It sinks to the bottom. Over time it loses its radioactivity as it decays. The more violently radioactive stuff decays very quickly, and the less radioactive stuff is...less radioactive.

Well of course a real nuclear war wouldn't result in irradiated oceans 200+ years after the war. The world of Fallout is not supposed to depict a realistic version of the aftermath of a nuclear war. The nuclear weapons in that universe have different properties from ours (lower yield, more radiation), radiation itself has different effects on organisms than it really would, and the radiation is more generally persistent.

New Vegas wasn't made by Bethesda, and the attention to detail is generally better in that game. It doesn't represent a totally realistic take on the aftermath of a nuclear war either, but it does have a wasteland that has evolved after each game in that region. There are also in-universe reasons for New Vegas not receiving as many direct nuclear strikes as other regions we have played in.

Setting up purifiers on the local rivers would still expose the Institute to the outside world and consume valuable resources, and the Institute has no reason to do it. They are not a benevolent organization, there is nothing in it for them.

[Celtic Frost]

Stupid assinine assumption to make that you can purify the water as if the water is the source of the radioactive contamination totally ignoring weather patterns of water evaporation, condensation and drainage.

[DouglasGrave]

Автор сообщения: Incunabulum

Автор сообщения: danconnors

Let's put it differenty. Dr. Li originally lived in the DC area. She was there when Project Purity went into full scale operation--after the main enclave force was destroyed. She knows everything there is to know about Project Purity.

As a responsible, and I think moral scientist, she would have seen to it when she arrived in the Commonwealth that Project Purity was implemented there also. Being intimately connected to the Institute she would have access to technology sufficient to do the job.

Knowing her as I remember from Fallout 3 she would have brow beaten "Father" constantly until he caved, and allowed the Commonwealth's water to be made safe. If the Institute obstinately refused to go along with her, it would just be one more indication of how truly evil the Institute is. It has the ability to clean up the water, and it refuses to do so. That's EVIL.

1. Maybe she doesn't.

2. That's not evil at all. The Instutute has other priorities - stuff they think will do more good for the Commonwealth than purifying water and chose to not pull resources from (and delay) this other project to do so.

Purifying water wouldn't be seen as a priority because people on the surface already have access to it. Any settlement with even a simple hand pump is capable of producing purified water, as we see in those settlements which we control.

Автор сообщения: Incunabulum

3. The Instutute *is* evil. They're protrayed as evil throughout the whole game. The only time anyone comes up with a rational plan is when they describe what they're doing to you - except they're not actually doing what they say they are. They flat out lie to your face about what they're doing on the surface despite *knowing* that you've been there and are intimately familiar with their activities there. They're evil and bugshit insane to boot.

The Institute doesn't lie to you about their plans, and as has been covered extensively in earlier discussions, the "evil" involved is far less extensive than the surface believes (especially synth replacements, where there are a total of four verifiable instances).

All three of the significant incidents that the surface knows about (the Broken Mask Incident, CPG massacre, and Kellogg wiping out University Point) were unintentional and unfavourable for the Institute. The secret FEV project was far worse in total, but it accumulated its death count over a hundred years, and most of the Institute doesn't even know about it.

The Institute's hands certainly aren't pristine, but the same could be said for other settlements, like Goodneighbour (with murderous gangsters, chem dealing to children, and a leader who knifes troublemakers to death in the street).

[Anvos]

Simple answer is the tech GECK never worked (and was actually rather rare) as it was supposed to be a full blown terraformer but when you activate it in 3 it has more in common with a Black Hole, the low tech GECKs are the only ones successfully deployed and those are pretty much just a fusion core and seeds.

Also your severly overestimating how much one plant can fix in 20ish years or whatever since kids from 3 are still alive and not that old. Plus the Purity plant is about the top of the line tech for fallout world and was like 80% atleast complete before it got moth balled for a few decades when they couldn't get it to work initially so even if you could find a subsitute for or other tech GECKs that would be a long term building project.

If we had gone back to DC area to maybe Philadelphia ruins then yeah they would probably be well off water wise by now but your traversing a good deal of real estate here.

[Incunabulum]

Автор сообщения: DouglasGrave

Автор сообщения: Incunabulum

1. Maybe she doesn't.

2. That's not evil at all. The Instutute has other priorities - stuff they think will do more good for the Commonwealth than purifying water and chose to not pull resources from (and delay) this other project to do so.

Purifying water wouldn't be seen as a priority because people on the surface already have access to it. Any settlement with even a simple hand pump is capable of producing purified water, as we see in those settlements which we control.

Автор сообщения: Incunabulum

3. The Instutute *is* evil. They're protrayed as evil throughout the whole game. The only time anyone comes up with a rational plan is when they describe what they're doing to you - except they're not actually doing what they say they are. They flat out lie to your face about what they're doing on the surface despite *knowing* that you've been there and are intimately familiar with their activities there. They're evil and bugshit insane to boot.

The Institute doesn't lie to you about their plans, and as has been covered extensively in earlier discussions, the "evil" involved is far less extensive than the surface believes (especially synth replacements, where there are a total of four verifiable instances).

All three of the significant incidents that the surface knows about (the Broken Mask Incident, CPG massacre, and Kellogg wiping out University Point) were unintentional and unfavourable for the Institute. The secret FEV project was far worse in total, but it accumulated its death count over a hundred years, and most of the Institute doesn't even know about it.

The Institute's hands certainly aren't pristine, but the same could be said for other settlements, like Goodneighbour (with murderous gangsters, chem dealing to children, and a leader who knifes troublemakers to death in the street).

1. The Institute absolutely does. Nothing that you're told while in there meshes with what you see them doing up top.

2. You're forgetting Art, among the numerous times you're just flat out attacked by synths for no reason whatsoever. And that's on top of them suddenly attacking your settlements - from inside.

3. FEV experiments.

4. Nobody is expecting you to join up and support Goodneighbor.

[danconnors]

Admittedly the Institute is evil. Any son who would order his mother or father to murder his own friends, as Father does to you, would have to be considered a bad person. In Fallout 3 a splinter group of the BOS finished the purifier, but Elder Maxon would certainly have no part of something like that.

The technology DID work in Fallout 3, and it's hard to believe that the story of the cleaned up Potomac River wouldn't spread. Diamond City might have the resources to clean up a few of the nearby lakes. Your character, after interviewing Dr. Li might adopt cleaning up the water as your own pet project. If you could convince her to leave the Institute to rejoin the BOS, maybe you could convince her to join you instead.

[DouglasGrave]

Автор сообщения: Incunabulum

1. The Institute absolutely does. Nothing that you're told while in there meshes with what you see them doing up top.

2. You're forgetting Art, among the numerous times you're just flat out attacked by synths for no reason whatsoever. And that's on top of them suddenly attacking your settlements - from inside.

3. FEV experiments.

4. Nobody is expecting you to join up and support Goodneighbor.

1. What do they ever lie about?

2. Art is one (turning up multiple times doesn't count). There are about three others.

3. Spread it across the hundred years that it runs, and it's a few people per year. It's on the level of incidental hostility between unfriendly settlers, and most of the Institute doesn't even know about the project.

4. No-one's calling them evil, either.