Can anyone come up with an argument for why the BoS is GOOD

[icebreaker]

It seems like they're always getting bashed, but does anyone actually think they're good and why?

[DouglasGrave]

Publicado originalmente por nd:

picking and chooseing isnt canon ..it's dogma

It's not me picking and choosing; over time, different creators in a series can consider different things to be canon.

[Ruin]

Publicado originalmente por Meow Meow:

if you like the BOS so much then affirming the lore in tactics and brotherhood would even increase the honor of the BOS - back to the main discussion:" how is the brother hood moral?"

Effectively a No True Scotsman argument...

Do you actually have anything to support your claims, beyond logical fallacy?

Publicado originalmente por Meow Meow:

Publicado originalmente por ZM | Dr. Dro:

Cut content is not canon, that's the point. It will not have any continuity story-wise, and it will be meaningless even in the game as since it was cut, most of the related dialogue and functions that such a rank would afford aren't even programmed into the game, and even if they are, since it was cut it is ultimately not canon and worthless as far as Fallout lore goes, which still makes you wrong.

so what am I wrong about? that tactics and FO brotherhood is lore? cut content means Bethesda is the lore and they omitted it, which means the lore is still lore even if you cut it out on a time budget... if its a fairy tail Snow white , it does not change the tail snow white if you have a water down version to a child in a bedtime story. So if they cut it it really means they are shoving a watered down version down your throat, not because the lore is any different.

As Dr Dro said, cut content is not canon... It doesn't matter what might have been, it was removed and is therefore not official - it is "extended universe" at best, and is not official canon...

What you're describing here is an abridged version of a story, which is very different from official events...

[AikenAidan]

If you believe that a Few people should dictate how everyone else should live , and uses Violence to enforce it then the BOS is right up your ally.

If you don't , then they are not good.

[Ruin]

Publicado originalmente por Sick&Tired:

If you believe that a Few people should dictate how everyone else should live , and uses Violence to enforce it then the BOS is right up your ally.

If you don't , then they are not good.

Is this not what even democratically elected governments do today anyway?

[MeoWeoMeow]

Publicado originalmente por Ruin:

Publicado originalmente por Meow Meow:

I think you misapropriated my sugesttion in a confusion with Dr. Dros group think mentality. I said "MIght have " does not mean I said 'he has'. There fore these statements are illigitamate at any cause. For when I mentioned "might have..." it implies that it is a fan fiction suspicion but not lore.

Another note is the codex library in FONV contains the affirmation of the brotherhood story line and tactics

So your refutation is simple sophistry, and you claim my assertionss to be illegitimate? *facepalm*

You're essentially saying the world might be flat, but don't criticise my comments, and point out that I am wrong, because I simply said it migh be and never actually said that it was...

You made an implication and are now trying to back peddle, nothing more...

Oh, and sharing a similar perspective does not make it group think, but nice try at strawmanning, despite the attempt failing...

There is nothing in NV that confirms everything in Tactics, nor BoS, the only references you will find confirm that only some of the featured events took place from Tactics... Otherwise, pease elaborate as to where these entries can be found?

yes, but look at it this way, both of you are shoving words into my mouth that I never said . I never stated that he did in fact killed Lyons to gain Elder rank but my specific meaning was "might have" which means you are siding with a group of people who think I did say Maxson killed Lyons. I hope you can now see after this clarification. So yes, it is group think, and Dr. D was making a straw man to begin with.

FONV does have a codex record mentioning the first Maxson and the beginings of the brother hood ... I would start by looking there.

[< blank >]

Publicado originalmente por Meow Meow:

Publicado originalmente por Ruin:

So your refutation is simple sophistry, and you claim my assertionss to be illegitimate? *facepalm*

You're essentially saying the world might be flat, but don't criticise my comments, and point out that I am wrong, because I simply said it migh be and never actually said that it was...

You made an implication and are now trying to back peddle, nothing more...

Oh, and sharing a similar perspective does not make it group think, but nice try at strawmanning, despite the attempt failing...

There is nothing in NV that confirms everything in Tactics, nor BoS, the only references you will find confirm that only some of the featured events took place from Tactics... Otherwise, pease elaborate as to where these entries can be found?

yes, but look at it this way, both of you are shoving words into my mouth that I never said . I never stated that he did in fact killed Lyons to gain Elder rank but my specific meaning was "might have" which means you are siding with a group of people who think I did say Maxson killed Lyons. I hope you can now see after this clarification. So yes, it is group think, and Dr. D was making a straw man to begin with.

FONV does have a codex record mentioning the first Maxson and the beginings of the brother hood ... I would start by looking there.

fallout1 has maxon files too

[< blank >]

maxon killed the makers of fev and then whent awal with troops who became bos

[MeoWeoMeow]

Publicado originalmente por nd:

Publicado originalmente por Meow Meow:

yes, but look at it this way, both of you are shoving words into my mouth that I never said . I never stated that he did in fact killed Lyons to gain Elder rank but my specific meaning was "might have" which means you are siding with a group of people who think I did say Maxson killed Lyons. I hope you can now see after this clarification. So yes, it is group think, and Dr. D was making a straw man to begin with.

FONV does have a codex record mentioning the first Maxson and the beginings of the brother hood ... I would start by looking there.

fallout1 has maxon files too

yes thats what i have been trying to say to jarheads, people wont listen. the codex is no secret, there are many accomplishments the bOS have done even so more if including tactics and brotherhood, in which we get a more in depth look into their exploits.

[Ruin]

Publicado originalmente por Meow Meow:

Publicado originalmente por Ruin:

So your refutation is simple sophistry, and you claim my assertionss to be illegitimate? *facepalm*

You're essentially saying the world might be flat, but don't criticise my comments, and point out that I am wrong, because I simply said it migh be and never actually said that it was...

You made an implication and are now trying to back peddle, nothing more...

Oh, and sharing a similar perspective does not make it group think, but nice try at strawmanning, despite the attempt failing...

There is nothing in NV that confirms everything in Tactics, nor BoS, the only references you will find confirm that only some of the featured events took place from Tactics... Otherwise, pease elaborate as to where these entries can be found?

yes, but look at it this way, both of you are shoving words into my mouth that I never said . I never stated that he did in fact killed Lyons to gain Elder rank but my specific meaning was "might have" which means you are siding with a group of people who think I did say Maxson killed Lyons. I hope you can now see after this clarification. So yes, it is group think, and Dr. D was making a straw man to begin with.

Strawmanning is actively misrepresenting someone's comments... Though you keep using weasel words that Maxson "might" have killed Sarah Lyons, you insist on reiterating this fantasy... Dro didn't straw Man there at all...

Once again claiming sharing similar beliefs to automatically qualify as group think is indeed strawmanning, else you're using the term group think without fully understanding it's true meaning...

Publicado originalmente por Meow Meow:

FONV does have a codex record mentioning the first Maxson and the beginings of the brother hood ... I would start by looking there.

In this you are correct, but those entries are minimal and intentionally vague and as such they only touch on major events...

They do not confirm either narrative in their entirety, which is what we've been saying - only significant events are considered canon in Tactics, and we don't even know which (of three possible) ending is canon as Bethesda have never confirmed it...

[< blank >]

Publicado originalmente por Meow Meow:

Publicado originalmente por nd:

fallout1 has maxon files too

yes thats what i have been trying to say to jarheads, people wont listen

so they dont know fev is a cure ?

[Ruin]

Publicado originalmente por ZM | Dr. Dro:

Roger Maxson and his garrison defected from the U.S. Army upon finding the evidence of West-Tek experimenting with the FEV in non-consenting people. He did this October 20, 2077, three entire days before the Great War hit. He never even got an answer from Army command, because they were all so engaged in the political climax before the bombs went flying. Maxson interrogated and executed the West-Tek scientists, and began moving his family and the families of all those who were in his team into the West-Tek facility, where they took shelter during the initial post-War period. This is in the canon and no one has disputed this. It is also known that Arthur is the last of the Maxson lineage.

Yep, all official canon...

[MeoWeoMeow]

Publicado originalmente por Ruin:

Publicado originalmente por Meow Meow:

yes, but look at it this way, both of you are shoving words into my mouth that I never said . I never stated that he did in fact killed Lyons to gain Elder rank but my specific meaning was "might have" which means you are siding with a group of people who think I did say Maxson killed Lyons. I hope you can now see after this clarification. So yes, it is group think, and Dr. D was making a straw man to begin with.

Strawmanning is actively misrepresenting someone's comments... Though you keep using weasel words that Maxson "might" have killed Sarah Lyons, you insist on reiterating this fantasy... Dro didn't straw Man there at all...

Once again claiming sharing similar beliefs to automatically qualify as group think is indeed strawmanning, else you're using the term group think without fully understanding it's true meaning...

Publicado originalmente por Meow Meow:

FONV does have a codex record mentioning the first Maxson and the beginings of the brother hood ... I would start by looking there.

In this you are correct, but those entries are minimal and intentionally vague and as such they only tough on major events... They do not confirm either narrative in their entirety, which is what we've been saying - only significant events are considered canon in Tactics, and we don't even know which (of three possible) ending is canon as Bethesda have never confirmed it...

well, yes my comments to the main topic of "BOS morallity" has been misrepresented by Dr. D. and now that you mention it this way I can tell you must have sided with his arguement by mistake?

[< blank >]

maxon isnt the boss at the milatary base , but his boss kills himself with a handgun in this office 1 month after the war starts ,

[MeoWeoMeow]

Publicado originalmente por nd:

maxon isnt the boss at the milatary base , but his boss kills himself with a handgun in this office 1 month after the war starts ,

His boss = rothchild...

[< blank >]

Publicado originalmente por ZM | Dr. Dro:

Roger Maxson and his garrison defected from the U.S. Army upon finding the evidence of West-Tek experimenting with the FEV in non-consenting people. He did this October 20, 2077, three entire days before the Great War hit. He never even got an answer from Army command, because they were all so engaged in the political climax before the bombs went flying. Maxson interrogated and executed the West-Tek scientists, and began moving his family and the families of all those who were in his team into the West-Tek facility, where they took shelter during the initial post-War period. This is in the canon and no one has disputed this. It is also known that Arthur is the last of the Maxson lineage.

Publicado originalmente por nd:

so they dont know fev is a cure ?

It's the Forced Evolutionary Virus, as the name explains, it forcibly evolves injected subjects. That Brian Virgil was even capable of synthesizing an effective prototype cure that worked on him and successfully reversed him from his super mutant form is an astounding accomplishment, which no doubt will have an impact in a future Fallout 5.

not has a cure ...it is a cure for everything china could do to usa peoples