I HATE THIS GAME,

[Eggman98]

I am a fan of New Vegas. I have been a fan of Obsidian's Fallout and Bethsda's ElderScrolls games for nine years. So seeing this game with its casual dumb down gameplay, complete lack of player choice, and absoultly horrible story, fills me with despair. Becasue of Fallout 4's popularity and success there is no hope of Fallout EVER going back to being an RPG.
I don't hate Bethsda as they breathed life into the series in 2008 to 2010, but now ......IT'S ALL
OVER but the crying
And nobody's crying but me
Friends all over know I'm trying
To forget about how much I care for you (you being fallout franchise in this song)
It's all over but the dreaming
Poor little dreams that keep trying to come true (dreams like another obsidian fallout)
It's all over but the crying
And I can't get over crying over you (hence why I wrote this)

It's all over but the crying
And nobody's crying but me
Friends all over know I'm trying
To forget about how much I care for you
It's all over but the dreaming
Poor little dreams that keep trying to come true
It's all over but the crying
And I can't get over crying over you

Rest In Peace~Fallout 1998 to 2015

[Aerisana]

How come it says that you do not own this game in steam?
How Odd.

[Yhwach]

引用自 casualsailor：

引用自 Pimmy：

Bethesda acknowledged the RPG system, and stated that they wanted to test it to see if people like it. They've stated that they hope to change it back to normal.

Do you have a source for this?

http://steamcommunity.com/app/377160/discussions/0/144513248278546083/?ctp=2#c144513248281454949

[Yhwach]

引用自 ZM | Dr. Dro：

引用自 Omni King Zen-Oh：

They never said the rpg system itself, mainly just the dialogue:
http://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-4-lead-todd-howard-dialogue-system-didnt-work-as-well/

I hope they just expand on it. It's got potential. With Full Dialogue mod to make you actually know what you're talking about, which was my only issue with it, it's about as good as it gets. By implementing it this way on the next game and allowing more dialogue choices, even if it considerably increases development time and complexity, I think it's worth it. 8 choices should be enough.

Bethesda is known to study their fan criticism religiously, the problem starts when they decice they want to try new things and move forward with it to see how it goes; that's both a good and bad thing, but it helps them know what their audience wants, and how they can work on it.

However, unlike other game companies they like to do what they want first, and build their game world that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrfdNJDVpR4

[samplexample]

YES THE GAME SUCKS. WELCOME TO THE CLUB. JUST EMBRACE WHATS GOOD AND TRY NOT TO THINK ABOUT THE BAD.
Most of this game's flaws are omissions, anyways.

[DinoBlight]

*coughs* Obsidian didn't make fallout 3 *coughs again* ♥♥♥♥♥♥

[ButterZ]

引用自 jrr101：

引用自 peacefuldalek：

Oh they made a sequal!!!

It's actually pretty good if you like isometric games.

I loved it. And its a real CRPG. FO 3&4 feel more like an action game. Still like them too but they are more about action.
What i did not like was that weapons and armor don't break down anymore. So you need a mod for that. Why was this done? Heresy i say.

[Ruin]

引用自 CatNip：

引用自 jrr101：

It's actually pretty good if you like isometric games.

I loved it. And its a real CRPG. FO 3&4 feel more like an action game. Still like them too but they are more about action.
What i did not like was that weapons and armor don't break down anymore. So you need a mod for that. Why was this done? Heresy i say.

Are you meaning that weapons and armour don't break down in FO4? They never did in FO1/2 either...

It was something Bethesda introduced, which was just empty micromanagement of equipment as it made no real difference to gameplay (since you could just bash two of same commonly dropping items together to "fix" your weapon), or could easily be overcome with Jury Rigging, to the point of meaninglessness...

[Zulu]

引用自 domi_nique：

引用自 Zulu：

- But did skills really do all that much?

Yes, in combination with other game mechanics, like the dialoge.

引用自 Zulu：

- This is kind of eh. There are some bad examples out there, like the one where you lie to Ceaser. That should include both Medicine and speech to lie to him but instead you just make up random bs and he believes it.

Never said the system was flawless. But it was still a much better system than what FO4 has to offer.

引用自 Zulu：

- There are options that also add 'more', 'more questions', and other things

- Yeah, and that's barely 5% of all dialoge. Wow.

引用自 Zulu：

- There are a couple of those in F4, like if you have high charisma, good lockpicking or hacking skills, or other things

Again, only like 3-4 times in the whole game which is much bigger than NV. That's not even close to what NV had to offer in a shorter, smaller game.

引用自 Zulu：

- I mean, there are plenty of those quests.

Not really. There are uncountable quests that force you to do the good stuff. Example, you have to help the Bobrov-Brothers and Travis or must ignore the quest and leave it uncompleted forever. You can't play as an evil character and say "fuq you I just get rid of you and take what I want). There are sooo many other quests where you are forced to play a certain way.

引用自 Zulu：

- which breaks the game making it unplayable. Did you hear about that person who killed everyone he met? He made it so the last level was almost, literally unfinishable. If you kill everyone as soon as you meet them on F4/NV you pretty much automatically 'fail' the main story and all branching missions, making you unable to do anything.

So what? If someone wants to go on a rampage and fails all quests by doing so, then so be it. I don't want to be forced to be forced to deal with characters that I don't like. The "Sanctuary-Crew", especially Preston. In New Vegas, you could become the biggest warlord of Caesar's Legion and enslave basically the entire Mojave Wasteland. Or you could be a mercenary who kills his/her clients after a deal.

In FO4, you can't do that in the main game. I refuse to count in the half-baked Nuka World mechanics that are supposed to make up for the lack of "evilness" in the base game.

引用自 Zulu：

-No. Just, no.

Why not?

引用自 Zulu：

- This is really just a matter of opinion. There are differences between gunners and raiders, as you can see in places. You can also say the same of this about: The Enclave, Brotherhood, NCR, Legion, Institute, Minutemen, SM, Ghouls, EVERY OTHER CREATURE, Talon Merces, Mr House, etc, etc.

So a different decoration of a location is a valid difference to you? Gunner and Raider exactly behave the same, only the equipment is different.
Raiders are portrayed to be chem-addicted maniacs, why don't they use drugs like Buffout, Jet, Psycho etc.? Why don't you have any other interactions than killing them? Gunners are portrayed to be pretty much the best equipped mercenaries. So why can't you make contracts with them? Hire them temporarely? Do work/quests for them? No, they are 100% hostile for no reason. "Fuq it, let's kill this potential customer because we are bored".

Creatures being hostile, fine. At least they have different combat-styles. Super Mutants are brainless maniacs in this game as well, even though in NV, there have also been many peaceful, even super friendly ones. Virgil and Erickson are just two, Strong isn't a friendly mutant. Way too few imo.

引用自 Zulu：

- You don't have to do the MM quests if you don't want to; nobody is forcing you. I mean, the combat zone is pretty much useless if you have NW as it's pretty much the exact same thing.

It's not just about the Minutemen quests. Almost every side-/faction-quest is "go to X, kill Y (and sometimes grab/save item/person Z). I just expect much more from a RPG.

Again, I refuse to accept Nuka World, because it is a half-baked way to make up for the massive lack of evil gameplay.

"Yes, in combination with other game mechanics, like the dialoge." Not all that much, except for combat - which was lacking.

"Never said the system was flawless. But it was still a much better system than what FO4 has to offer." I can disagree with this.

"- Yeah, and that's barely 5% of all dialoge. Wow. " Much more actually.

"Again, only like 3-4 times in the whole game which is much bigger than NV. That's not even close to what NV had to offer in a shorter, smaller game." Then you haven't played much of the game then.

"Not really. There are uncountable quests that force you to do the good stuff. Example, you have to help the Bobrov-Brothers and Travis or must ignore the quest and leave it uncompleted forever. " I think there is another way to that but i don't know, but there are plenty of good examples of this that you could have used which would have supported me.

"You can't play as an evil character and say "fuq you I just get rid of you and take what I want)." Except you can, you can literally extort most of the people in the game..

"There are sooo many other quests where you are forced to play a certain way."" Not really, except for main quests.

"So what?" So you want to break the game then to complain about the game breaking? This only makes everything much harder, and many, many things impossible.

" I refuse to count in the half-baked Nuka World mechanics that are supposed to make up for the lack of "evilness" in the base game." Well you shouldn't be. If you want to argue for or against something you must take into account everything available; by ignoring this you are just wanting to do or say what you want.

"Why not?" If you played F3 or NV you would know why.

"Gunner and Raider exactly behave the same, only the equipment is different." Not at all. Raiders mindlessly kill people, whereas gunners kill people in certain locations, plan things out, kidnap people and use them against others, actually make and use more advanced technology, use terminals and security systems for their benefit, have a hierarchy, etc, etc.

"Why don't you have any other interactions than killing them?" There most likely is, i just can't remember them. Also; Nuka World.

"Almost every side-/faction-quest is "go to X, kill Y (and sometimes grab/save item/person Z). " You mean the couple radiant quest that all factions have? What about all the other quests that they give that are nothing like that? Even heard of Duty or Dishonour? The Institute one with the Mayor?

"I just expect much more from a RPG." Well this isn't the old kind of boring, face down RPG that people love so much these days.

[Zulu]

引用自 OTIS：

You are preaching to the choir man. I never finished the game, the story is just that bad.

"the story is just that bad. " What? And you think that F3 or NV had better stories? NV's was pretty garbage while 3's was very boring at the start and then ended pretty cliche.

Edit: I forgot to add the end quote.

[Dimathiel]

引用自 Zulu：

引用自 OTIS：

You are preaching to the choir man. I never finished the game, the story is just that bad.

"the story is just that bad. " What? And you think that F3 or NV had better stories? NV's was pretty garbage while 3's was very boring at the start and then ended pretty cliche.

Edit: I forgot to add the end quote.

Perhaps he only understands garbage and cliches.

[Zulu]

引用自 Omni King Zen-Oh：

引用自 ZM | Dr. Dro：

I hope they just expand on it. It's got potential. With Full Dialogue mod to make you actually know what you're talking about, which was my only issue with it, it's about as good as it gets. By implementing it this way on the next game and allowing more dialogue choices, even if it considerably increases development time and complexity, I think it's worth it. 8 choices should be enough.

Bethesda is known to study their fan criticism religiously, the problem starts when they decice they want to try new things and move forward with it to see how it goes; that's both a good and bad thing, but it helps them know what their audience wants, and how they can work on it.

However, unlike other game companies they like to do what they want first, and build their game world that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrfdNJDVpR4

"Bethesda is known to study their fan criticism religiously" The problem here is this: Differentiating the valid opinions of people, and the invalid - mostly idiotic, ignorant raving - opinions of trolls. That doesn't make it easy, especially when half the people want one thing, while the other half want something the exact opposite.

[Yhwach]

引用自 Zulu：

引用自 Omni King Zen-Oh：

Bethesda is known to study their fan criticism religiously, the problem starts when they decice they want to try new things and move forward with it to see how it goes; that's both a good and bad thing, but it helps them know what their audience wants, and how they can work on it.

However, unlike other game companies they like to do what they want first, and build their game world that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrfdNJDVpR4

"Bethesda is known to study their fan criticism religiously" The problem here is this: Differentiating the valid opinions of people, and the invalid - mostly idiotic, ignorant raving - opinions of trolls. That doesn't make it easy, especially when half the people want one thing, while the other half want something the exact opposite.

Which is why there's a filtered audience in which they look into, they're adults, they can seperate valid criticizm for their games and that's what they do;
Todd is a very intelligent man, he's humurous, and definitely knows the difference between a 15 year old that has no idea how the game works, and one that actually did and offers actual advice to the game developers.

As for the last part, when it comes to how Bethesda's mind-set has been, the appeal factor is only minimal when what they want to do, vs what their fans want is in the makes; Fallout 4 is an example of them just doing what they want, trying new things..and them seeing what worked and what didn't; but now I'm just getting a bit off track here, so the tl;dr is that they generally don't follow it and their priority is how THEY want to create the game world when things come first, at least that's what's been seen in their record.

[MaximumEffort]

引用自 OTIS：

You are preaching to the choir man. I never finished the game, the story is just that bad. However I still clocked in over 300 hours in this game with all of the sidequests and DLC and I agree it is not up to the standards you expect from Bethesda.

As you said the lack of choice in the story is a real problem. Which is made worse by four dialogue choices which basically come down to: Yes, No (also a yes in some instances), Sarcastic yes, and more information/more money.

Finally you get the problems with the combat and levelling system. The majority of the perks are just replacing skills or just increasing your damage output to remain competitive with the enemies.

Also, in the past you needed to create your characters in advance if you wanted to have a lot critical hits by having the right perks and high luck. Alternatively a very high stealth skill could take them by surprise.

Now you don't need to create particular builds to increase your chances of a critical hit anymore, nor do you have to be stealthy. Now you wait for bar to fill and push a button.

In fact you don't need to specialize your builds at all since you can get every perk in the game. Which leads to every character being the same by the end of the game by the way.



I think some people bought Fallout 3 thinking it must be a first person shooter when they saw the trailers. Basically they thought it was COD with zombies (ghouls). Then they found out it was an RPG and complained about the complexity of RPGs and the lack of shooter elements.

So Bethesda took them seriously and made the whole game much more shooter oriented by removing the skills, and simplifying the combat (no more random criticals, no more low guns skill that might make you miss the target).

Which was basically a bad move on their part.

The game has sold as much as other Fallouts combined. A really bad move on their part.

[MaximumEffort]

引用自 casualsailor：

引用自 OTIS：

I never finished the main story, mainly because it was so bad. After I found my son I just couldn't play any more. The whole story led to THAT, what a let down, it really was. I was hoping for something . . . more. And I have hard time wanting to go back because the story is just so bad.

Point is, that with the Far Harbor DLC and restarting at least 5 times due to bad character creation decisions, I still clocked in over 300 hours.

So yes, I think I am entitled to my opinion based on the amount of time I played it, even if I have not finished the main story.

FO4 has a thousand stories to discover. Did you find the Chinese submarine? Did you do the companion quests? Did you ever track down a radio beacon? Find the boy in the fridge? Discover any of dozens of hidden bunkers?

All of them have stories attached to them. Together they paint a rich story of the CW.


Perhaps this method of storytelling is not to your liking. But given the hundreds of hours of stories to be discovered, I find your dismissal of the game based solely upon its main story to be pedantic.

This is why I enjoy F4 over the others - sense of exploration and discovery and Im not spoon fed the story like in FNV where I have no say over what happens and are led down a linear corridor.

Other developers should take ques on how to develop a proper open world

[MaximumEffort]

引用自 Zulu：

引用自 Omni King Zen-Oh：

Bethesda is known to study their fan criticism religiously, the problem starts when they decice they want to try new things and move forward with it to see how it goes; that's both a good and bad thing, but it helps them know what their audience wants, and how they can work on it.

However, unlike other game companies they like to do what they want first, and build their game world that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrfdNJDVpR4

"Bethesda is known to study their fan criticism religiously" The problem here is this: Differentiating the valid opinions of people, and the invalid - mostly idiotic, ignorant raving - opinions of trolls. That doesn't make it easy, especially when half the people want one thing, while the other half want something the exact opposite.

And to be honest, its the minority that is thr most vocal. Most people enjoy the game for what they are, not what they dreamed them to be.