So did The Institute turn Commonwealth into a dump ?

[Blitzwing]

Well so far people seem to be pretty civilized and organised.
-They are threatened by Super Mutants , but it seems The Institute did create them.
-The Raiders, seem to be a by product of rogue Androids , that the Institute does make.

Maybe not intentional, but its obviously by product of their work


Yes there was the nuclear war, but people seem to have had organised themself in several protectionist groups with same goal.

But Institute does figth them all ?
Most obvious part are their broken agents, I mean they do a lot of collateral damage.

[DouglasGrave]

The Institute is responsible for the local super mutants, but their in-game representation (with super mutants all over, constantly respawning) doesn't match what little information we have about the number of people that have gone missing, or the Institute's own facilities. It's likely that, over around 100 years of the relevant scientific project, the Institute released several hundred super mutants onto the surface.It's a big number if they were all standing together in one place, but not when they're widely dispersed across time and space within the Commonwealth.

The evidence also indicates that super mutants kill more raiders and dangerous wasteland creatures than peaceful human settlers, and are just replacing other threats instead of making the Commonwealth significantly worse.

There's just one group of raiders that have a synth as their leader, and while he might have been more aggressive than normal, the had a different leader with his own backstory before you start a particular quest, indicating that they're already a threat (and their original leader is actually a former Minuteman). Most "rogue" synths are due to the Railroad attempting to liberate synths, with the synth infiltrators that the Institute itself deploys usually remaining inconspicuous (as they're intended to be).

The Institute isn't generally helping, since they've written off the rest of the Commonwealth as a lost cause, but they're rarely making the filthy hellscape noticably worse.

[Blitzwing]

Problem is , Institute don't even know who is synt or not.
And es we have seen Most people do hate them for a reason.

Unlike normal Animal Mutants, Super Mutants do kidnap people to infect them with the Virus.
It was already mentioned that they did sabotage the government, i mean collateral damage by try to take control.
And they did once release a lot of aggressive synt who did attack and kill a lot of people.


By enclave you had somebody evil , because they wanted power.
By Institute you have just somebody who does do even more damage, without the intention ?

I mean how can it be that even Enclave did not make so much damage like Institute?

[Stellarbone]

they saw the surface had a government being set up and sent one of their gen1 synths to represent them. The surface people freaked the hell out like rational people would at seeing a robot skeleton and it killed everyone at the meet.

[DouglasGrave]

SPOILER NOTE: There are potential spoilers all through the stuff below (enough that I'd be spoiler tagging most of the post to hide it), in case anyone is reading and likes to find stuff out for themselves.

Originally posted by Blitzwing:

Problem is , Institute don't even know who is synt or not.
And es we have seen Most people do hate them for a reason.

Two of the three incidents that seem to really popularize the Institute as a menace (the Broken Mask Incident and the CPG massacre) were entirely unintentional on the Institute's part.

Originally posted by Blitzwing:

Unlike normal Animal Mutants, Super Mutants do kidnap people to infect them with the Virus.
It was already mentioned that they did sabotage the government, i mean collateral damage by try to take control.
And they did once release a lot of aggressive synt who did attack and kill a lot of people.

It's not clear whether the super mutants have any ability to make more of their own kind; they seem to talk about it sometimes, but there's no evidence that they can actually do it.

The Commonwealth Provisional Government wasn't sabotage; the Institute wanted it to work, but some kind of fight broke out (likely due to disagreements between the members of the CPG) and the Institute's synth ended up getting blamed (probably because it was tougher than regular humans and survived the fight).

The Broken Mask Incident was a complete accident; someone in the Institute deployed a malfunctioning prototype that was nowhere near ready to be out on its own, and at some point it went haywire and killed people. Like the CPG massacre, the Institute was very unhappy about this because it went against all their plans.

Originally posted by Blitzwing:

By enclave you had somebody evil , because they wanted power.
By Institute you have just somebody who does do even more damage, without the intention ?

I mean how can it be that even Enclave did not make so much damage like Institute?

The Institute doesn't really do that much damage, people just think that they do. There's a massive shadow of fear associated with them that's almost completely unconnected with real Institute activity.

Only the incident that destroyed University Point could be considered to be properly their responsibility, and even that was because they hadn't yet realized how unstable Kellogg was becoming. Given the choice between "be impatient and decimate everything, taking a massive chance on losing the research you're after" and "just pay the people to give you the research", it's pretty obvious which the Institute would have preferred Kellogg to do.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Chef Pief:

they saw the surface had a government being set up and sent one of their gen1 synths to represent them. The surface people freaked the hell out like rational people would at seeing a robot skeleton and it killed everyone at the meet.

They seem to have been a bit more on-side with the idea than that; everyone seems to know that the robots are with the Institute, suggesting that they had a more open relationship with the rest of the Commonwealth in years past.

I don't think there's much doubt that something went wrong, but it seems that the Institute had already seen the CPG have a lot of troubles with infighting, making that a more likely source of trouble.

[leem]

The Institute is literally building the super race. From their point of view they are the future. Everyone is afraid of the institute and it is not because the institute is friendly or generous. The Nazi Regime believed they are the super race they too performed many experiments and advanced further than everyone else.

[cszolee79]

The institute kidnaps and replaces people with synths.
Children from the arms of their mothers / fathers.

Kill them all with fire. The Institute I mean.
The synths seem to be mere victims of slavery and inhumane experiments.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by cszolee79:

The institute kidnaps and replaces people with synths.

There are relatively few replacements; there are about three confirmable cases (and one bizarre exception). There are plenty of synths just pretending to be ordinary wasteland people without replacing anyone.

Given the numbers involved, the vast majority of people ever taken by the Institute were used for super mutant experiments (a program that's kept secret even within the Institute). Most of the Institute people wouldn't even know about it, and even though hundreds of people have been taken, that's spread over around 100 years. It amounts to just a few people per year, which puts these shay activities on par with the attacks of a small raider gang, maybe less.

It's not that this is nice behaviour by any means, but most of the people in the Institute aren't aware of it, and it's nowhere near the massive campaign of oppression that it's treated as in the rest of the Commonwealth.

[cszolee79]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butlerian_Jihad
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Abominable_Intelligence
http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Series_800
http://galactica.wikia.com/wiki/Number_Six
Just... no.
And turning people into Super Mutants?
The Institute is a cancerous tumor that must be cut out and cauterized.
This is one of the few things where the Brotherhood is right :)

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by cszolee79:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butlerian_Jihad
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Abominable_Intelligence
http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Series_800
http://galactica.wikia.com/wiki/Number_Six
Just... no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

Why go for half measures and ignore the real problem? You'd be better off with their creations, which might have a chance to do better.

Originally posted by cszolee79:

And turning people into Super Mutants?
The Institute is a cancerous tumor that must be cut out and cauterized.
This is one of the few things where the Brotherhood is right :)

Super mutants are bad, but remember, that's only a small and secret part of the Institute held over from the past (and one that's already been destroyed). Around it, you've got a bunch of brilliant scientists making amazing advancements.

If you're trying to remove tumors, you have to make sure you're not destroying most of the healthy tissue in the process.

[DarcDeath]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by cszolee79:

The institute kidnaps and replaces people with synths.

There are relatively few replacements; there are about three confirmable cases (and one bizarre exception). There are plenty of synths just pretending to be ordinary wasteland people without replacing anyone.

Given the numbers involved, the vast majority of people ever taken by the Institute were used for super mutant experiments (a program that's kept secret even within the Institute). Most of the Institute people wouldn't even know about it, and even though hundreds of people have been taken, that's spread over around 100 years. It amounts to just a few people per year, which puts these shay activities on par with the attacks of a small raider gang, maybe less.

It's not that this is nice behaviour by any means, but most of the people in the Institute aren't aware of it, and it's nowhere near the massive campaign of oppression that it's treated as in the rest of the Commonwealth.

It may seem like only a few people per year however, considering the fact synths are immortal, you would eventually replace the Commonwealth in its entirety with synths.

[leem]

Originally posted by DarcDeath:

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

There are relatively few replacements; there are about three confirmable cases (and one bizarre exception). There are plenty of synths just pretending to be ordinary wasteland people without replacing anyone.

Given the numbers involved, the vast majority of people ever taken by the Institute were used for super mutant experiments (a program that's kept secret even within the Institute). Most of the Institute people wouldn't even know about it, and even though hundreds of people have been taken, that's spread over around 100 years. It amounts to just a few people per year, which puts these shay activities on par with the attacks of a small raider gang, maybe less.

It's not that this is nice behaviour by any means, but most of the people in the Institute aren't aware of it, and it's nowhere near the massive campaign of oppression that it's treated as in the rest of the Commonwealth.

It may seem like only a few people per year however, considering the fact synths are immortal, you would eventually replace the Commonwealth in its entirety with synths.

"Mankind redefined"

[Blitzwing]

The question is not if they are evil or stupid , but is all their fault?

[Blitzwing]

Fallout 1 was the great enemy the Master who created Super Mutants
Fallout 2 the Enclave was obviously evil.

In both games the society was maybe not in best shape , but it was there and on several locations.

So you had some kind of stopping something evil. That wanted to kill everybody.


Here I just don't understand , what is their goal? Ok it seems like they don't want to kill everybody, actually fix the situation, but you have really lot of casualties.

[leem]

Originally posted by Blitzwing:

The question is not if they are evil or stupid , but is all their fault?

A yes or no answer next you ask why?

After all the "accidents" that every encounter with the Institute ends up leaving nothing but ruin. The Institute efforts to improve things has destabilized any government or replaced the leaders and used that position to breed chaos. All settlements suffer from constant sabotage from 3rd gen(reich) Super Synths. Yes they are the cause of maintaining chaos in the Commonwealth.