For the people who say DS3 pvp is unfair and sucks.

[Moisés Oliveira]

So, I´ve seen many topics about how DS3 pvp sucks and how people who invade generally get gang banged by 1v3 or 1v5 and I am here to say that you cannot simply stop or nerf PLAYER INTERACTION. Some people just bought this game to play with friends and for co-op options, you can’t simply just cry about 1v3 when you invade a host.
You cannot make rules of your own on how people should use or not use estus, the game allows it, deal with it, you want a honourable fight with no estus, call a friend and make a private match.

Now, let me try to solve some points here.

1 – If you´re invading, and the host has friends with him, either you decide to try taken them one by one or just leave the world and try again in other world, plus, the invaders loses nothing upon dying at the host’s world, your souls will be at the exact same location where you died, just got and retrieve them or fight next to a bonfire.
2 – If you want to duel, go to pontiff’s area or road of sacrifices and place a red sign there and wait or summon someone.

3 – If you want to get invaded more often, use the dried finger.

4 – If you don´t want to get invaded by 2v1 in your world, simply don´t go ember mode in that area (Pontiff’s area now is crowded with invasions), or summon a white sign and go for 2v2.

5 – If you find yourself in a fight club (either invading or being summoned) be a sportsman and play it, or quit it, or try going for the host and kill him. Someone besides you may be trying to kill him too.

6 – If the invader is using NPCs to kill you, simply kill them before getting invaded or before going ember.

Now, let´s got for the ones which I find it to be mechanically unfair.
Generally the host has 30% more HP than the invader and he can have more estus too (max of 15 estus that can be divided between estus and ashen estus. Depending on position (host or invader) it´s unfair, thus, the game makes no difference if the player is a red/white summon(duel or co-op) or invader one, host will always have a higher chance to kill you in a 1v1 situation.

The only solution I find is to allow invaders have acess to all his estus that he went thought to have at his own game, he deserves that anyway.
Having NPCs to just agro the host sometimes can be ok and fair, but sometimes not, this is again another mechanic I find unfair. NPCs should never make difference of invader and host and should attack both of them whether one is close to one other or random between them. It may be ok if you consider that the host has advantage. My only solution for that is to make the invader invincible for the NPCs for 30 seconds and then let them attack him as well just after.

Fire away critics now.

[William Shakesman]

Invasions, hell all Souls PVP really, are meant to be lol randumb. No balance. No fair.

[Cohiba Skeeza]

Estus limit is 5 not 7. I had this dude worn down, I thought, until he kept using Estus well past 5 - eventually I died. I think I also killed phantom in the process.

xactly. Taking away any challenge and then opening threads saying it's too easy probably.

You know it.

[TheEvilNoob]

Moisés Oliveira původně napsal:

TheEvilNoob původně napsal:

You seem to be assuming that the host has all of their estus everytime you invade, which is a bad assumption.

Everytime I get invaded I have most of my estus flask in hand, so it´s not such a bad assumption, consider either that we now have a bonfire in pretty much each corner, so it´s not that hard to refill estus anyway and use 1 or 2.

Either way not being able to carry all your items on a invasion seem kinda a lack of game design even for balance sake.

"Well I usually do, so it must mean it's always true."

So now what happens when an invader gets all their estus and invades a lone person missing let's say half of their estus flasks and then uses those plus the enemies around the map. Does that seem balanced? I'm not saying it's balanced right now, because the ganks are far from fair, it's not as a simple as "give the invader all of their estus" in the end. You do have some good points though.

[Cohiba Skeeza]

TheEvilNoob původně napsal:

Moisés Oliveira původně napsal:

Everytime I get invaded I have most of my estus flask in hand, so it´s not such a bad assumption, consider either that we now have a bonfire in pretty much each corner, so it´s not that hard to refill estus anyway and use 1 or 2.

Either way not being able to carry all your items on a invasion seem kinda a lack of game design even for balance sake.

"Well I usually do, so it must mean it's always true."

So now what happens when an invader gets all their estus and invades a lone person missing let's say half of their estus flasks and then uses those plus the enemies around the map. Does that seem balanced? I'm not saying it's balanced right now, because the ganks are far from fair, it's not as a simple as "give the invader all of their estus" in the end. You do have some good points though.

The whole point of being invaded is for it to be an unexpected tough enemy trying to stop your progress.

But, the amount of Estus could just be limited to the Estus of the invaded player at the time of invasion. The host player can also run to an area where the enemies are either dead or neutral ground - which many hosts do.

I recently invaded a host who was in the middle of battle with the bridge beast of Irithyll. He won and I let him come across the bridge and hit the bonfire up. I think I killed him afterward.

[Jakeltons]

For me personally, if some one invades me it usually will end up being 2v1. Not cause I try to find a sign to summon, but because blue sentinels will be automatically summoned. I hope people don't see that as being a problem. I'm not a pvp person at all, I'm only about pve.

[TheEvilNoob]

Cohiba Skeeza původně napsal:

TheEvilNoob původně napsal:

"Well I usually do, so it must mean it's always true."

So now what happens when an invader gets all their estus and invades a lone person missing let's say half of their estus flasks and then uses those plus the enemies around the map. Does that seem balanced? I'm not saying it's balanced right now, because the ganks are far from fair, it's not as a simple as "give the invader all of their estus" in the end. You do have some good points though.

The whole point of being invaded is for it to be an unexpected tough enemy trying to stop your progress.

But, the amount of Estus could just be limited to the Estus of the invaded player at the time of invasion. The host player can also run to an area where the enemies are either dead or neutral ground - which many hosts do.

I recently invaded a host who was in the middle of battle with the bridge beast of Irithyll. He won and I let him come across the bridge and hit the bonfire up. I think I killed him afterward.

As long as the host gets his extra estus back at the end (not the ones he drank, the ones that were removed when scaled down) then it wouldn't be too bad.

Lucky you. When I was invaded on the bridge doing the same thing they just killed me. I laughed when they did an emote acknowledging that it was a cheap move.

[Moisés Oliveira]

TheEvilNoob původně napsal:

Moisés Oliveira původně napsal:

Everytime I get invaded I have most of my estus flask in hand, so it´s not such a bad assumption, consider either that we now have a bonfire in pretty much each corner, so it´s not that hard to refill estus anyway and use 1 or 2.

Either way not being able to carry all your items on a invasion seem kinda a lack of game design even for balance sake.

"Well I usually do, so it must mean it's always true."

So now what happens when an invader gets all their estus and invades a lone person missing let's say half of their estus flasks and then uses those plus the enemies around the map. Does that seem balanced? I'm not saying it's balanced right now, because the ganks are far from fair, it's not as a simple as "give the invader all of their estus" in the end. You do have some good points though.

haha, not saying it´s true, but there's no way to find out how much estus the person has until she uses it.

to answer your question: Not balanced, but not unfair either, since invasions can happen anytime in game thats not during a boss fight or a safe area.
The main point is not the how much estus the player has now or during an invasion, but the fact the game itself limits your own inventory to just use 5 or 7 estus when I shold have at least 10, since I went throught hell to have it, I deserve to use it in anywhere in anycase, even in invasions.
It may sound unfair or unbalanced by the host, especially in that kinda of situation you proposed, but in the long run, it kinda makes sense. Not to mention that the host has that 30% HP which can be 2 or 3 more hits that the invaders needs to deal more.

[Fluffy Monster Thing]

I say limit the number of summons they cn have within a certain time frame. The host should be granted 10-30 seconds or so before any summons are blocked off from being obtained (negated entirely by use of the dried fingers, for those who want their fight clubs!). After that, no more summons unless they dry finger and open up to more invaders too!

Why?

Because even if i kill both your phantoms you shouldn't be able to resummon them 3-4 times over and over until I time out by killing your phantoms. Seriously bro..

[Moisés Oliveira]

Ok, so I managed to see 3 things here (and of course, many of you should have known that long ago).

1 - You´re able to summon a dark spirit to your world embered or not. This means that the "fair" 1v1 battles can happen. You may still have some advantage tho.

2 - You´re able to be red summoned by any other person whether he´s embered or not.

3 - You still can invade people without the need to be embered.

In other words, if you´re going ember is because: You either killed a boss; Want to go for co-op (which also allows invasion); wants the HP bonus; or you want to lure people to invade your world (Like I do).


I still need to see if dried finger allows others to invade me outside ember, although I doubt it but it´s worth a try.

About limiting phantoms. Again, you cannot stop player interaction, maybe an item that allows the invader to summon other invaders from the same covanant as his may be a good idea (if this doesn´t already exist).

[Syth]

Here's my solution

-However many Estus the host has, that's how many an invader has when they appear. Likewise white phantoms have the same.
-The host can summon a maximum of 4 phantoms per life (refreshed via bonfire)
-When the host summons a phantom, they have to wait about 5 minutes to summon another one
-If a phantom dies in your world, that phantom cannot be summoned again until you refresh the world
-If the host has no phantoms, the invader has 50% health.
-If the host has a phantom, the invader has 75% health
-If the host has 2 phantoms, the invader has 100% health
-If the host has 3 phantoms, the invader has 125% health
-If there are 2 invaders go back a stage (i.e 3 phantoms + 2 invaders = 100% health)
-Mound Makers using the White Sign soapstone count as help, meaning you may get into a 7v1 situation if you're unlucky. But it's overall your fault for summoning Mound-Makers
-If the host has no phantoms and there are 2 invaders. An NPC is automatically summoned to help, if there are 2 invaders and a covenant invader then 2 NPCs are summoned etc.
-The invader can interact with red signs in the hosts world

That's all I can think of right now

[JustATextBox]

Moisés Oliveira původně napsal:

So, I´ve seen many topics about how DS3 pvp sucks and how people who invade generally get gang banged by 1v3 or 1v5 and I am here to say that you cannot simply stop or nerf PLAYER INTERACTION. Some people just bought this game to play with friends and for co-op options, you can’t simply just cry about 1v3 when you invade a host.
You cannot make rules of your own on how people should use or not use estus, the game allows it, deal with it, you want a honourable fight with no estus, call a friend and make a private match.

Anyone who thinks that hosts should just randomly agree to some crazy set of rules that a random person on a forum made in order to make it more "fair", is insane.

However.. Anyone who thinks that this mechanic is well designed or balanced in any way is equally insane.

[Moisés Oliveira]

Signild původně napsal:

Moisés Oliveira původně napsal:

So, I´ve seen many topics about how DS3 pvp sucks and how people who invade generally get gang banged by 1v3 or 1v5 and I am here to say that you cannot simply stop or nerf PLAYER INTERACTION. Some people just bought this game to play with friends and for co-op options, you can’t simply just cry about 1v3 when you invade a host.
You cannot make rules of your own on how people should use or not use estus, the game allows it, deal with it, you want a honourable fight with no estus, call a friend and make a private match.

Anyone who thinks that hosts should just randomly agree to some crazy set of rules that a random person on a forum made in order to make it more "fair", is insane.

However.. Anyone who thinks that this mechanic is well designed or balanced in any way is equally insane.

And why? because you don´t want to get gang banged by the host and his friends? So, you want to limit co-op interaction because you want to invade and kill the host?

[JustATextBox]

Moisés Oliveira původně napsal:

Signild původně napsal:

Anyone who thinks that hosts should just randomly agree to some crazy set of rules that a random person on a forum made in order to make it more "fair", is insane.

However.. Anyone who thinks that this mechanic is well designed or balanced in any way is equally insane.

And why? because you don´t want to get gang banged by the host and his friends? So, you want to limit co-op interaction because you want to invade and kill the host?

When did I ever say I want to limit coop interaction? I just want invasions to actually be decent, like they used to be. I don't want 70% of my invasions to be matches where I'm outnumbered, vs people who have more health and more estus than me, and can infinitely be summoned.

[Khaos]

Moisés Oliveira původně napsal:

Some people just bought this game to play with friends and for co-op options, you can’t simply just cry about 1v3 when you invade a host.
You cannot make rules of your own on how people should use or not use estus, the game allows it, deal with it, you want a honourable fight with no estus, call a friend and make a private match.

Don't try to reason with these stupid crying ♥♥♥♥♥. They won't have any of it.

Moisés Oliveira původně napsal:

Now, let me try to solve some points here.

Yeah...they'll just skip everything written here and cry some more about how they think it's broken.

[Nerevar]

if you invade. thats what i did and it was VERY effective most of the time. i lost count how many fellow idiot invaders i saw that just CHARGED right into a 4vs1 and expected to kill the host. these people think too high of themselfs and are fools. nobody easy wins a 4vs1 or 4vs2. not with poise beeing disabled. stunlock will get your ass sooner or later.

play smart. and BE PATIENT. and invade in an area where the mobs are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying. so they help you beat the crap out of these 4 man teams. i beat ALOT of 4 man teams SOLO over time or just snagged the host at the right moment.

if they are normally playing trough the map prey onto to them and USE OBSCURING RING if you invade. any invader without that ring is a moron to me. if they see you coming at a 100 miles away you wont win except if the host is a total ♥♥♥♥♥♥. if only ONE of the 4 phantoms knows thier ♥♥♥♥ youre set to lose.

the only time i would really leave the game is these :

a 3vs1 and giant seed is active. black crystal out. you wont win this without insane luck.

a 4vs1/2 and the host and his phantoms all use obscuring ring.

a 4vs1/2 and the host and his friends just sit right at the bonfire and dont move any feet.

on these 3 cases : leave the world. its pointless and a waste of your time.

all other things CAN be successful if youre patient as a invader. think if yourself as a animal that stalks its prey. dont charge in right away except if the host is alone.

and dont invade at settlement or high wall and expect this to work at all. mobs there are no big help as they are weak mostly. try the cathedral of the deep. MUCH better for invaders. or the dungeons (♥♥♥♥ THOSE JAILER MOBS)