Dark Souls 3 fans, why don't you like Dark Souls 2, or why would someone dislike Dark Souls 2. Plez answer...

[Singularity's Marauder]

I love that game.
I think that it can get pretty repetitive at the end, and that its diffculty comes from the wrong place, but in terms of being a great world that teaches you something amazing about life and how it passes, it gets a certain A+.
From the very intro, to the haunting and chilling image of Vendrick.
From the smallest of npcs such as the old hag, to Aldia.
From the begginer's broken sword, to the ♥♥♥♥ing amazing flame explosion piece of steel that is the Smelter Demon's Sword.
It's amazing on so many level.
Not only that, but it has, first time in the history of Dark Soul's, a working PvP.
No backstab fishing, and no lags that ruin everything.
I remember having a great time playing PvP, with it being less about deadly reflex due to how rolling works, and more about thinking, and doing what had to be done.

My opinion about the subject, is... as you can see... Very subjective. I won't hide that. I love Dark Souls 2, more than I love Dark Souls 1 and Dark Souls 3 combined. So, it saddens me to see that most of the Fromsoft's fans (with opinion) call it the Not tru Soulsgame, a bastard, a child that no one wanted.
Whilst, I'm over here thinking, that it was the best game to be ever produced by that company.
It's so sentimental.
It's so deep.
It's so lovely, and heartbreaking at the same time.
I'll remember the charming npcs, I'll remember the best kind of fanservice, that actually pushes forward the concepts initially presented, and I'll remember it's unique take on PvP, with how rather than being seen as something crucial (that you must kill others), it's something that works, but paints people who participate in it as those who they actually are.

Whilst, Dark Souls 3 tries to make you some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t honor dude, or a person with a cause, whilst killing others. Dark Souls 2 makes you think straight.
And that does not go only to PvP.
Dark Souls 2 is probably the most relevant if it comes to themes.

Now, I'll slow down, because you might have gotten lost.
What I'm saying is that...
Dark Souls 1 and 3 are some complex, stupid♥♥♥♥♥lore crap, that sure is fascinating in how alien it is, but that is the problem. It's ominous, and it's alien. It's Lovecraftian, it's Clivey (I don't ♥♥♥♥ing know how to call it). It's dark and horrorish, but at the same time it's not really human.
It talks about stuff complicated, but at the same time, it talks about stuff we as humans can't use in our real lives. Those aren't real lesson Dark Souls 1 and 3 are giving us. Those are lore pieces. Fascinating elements of a mystery, that is as fascinating as Greek Mythology. Which basically means, anyone will say that it is important to at least hear about it, but anyone who wants to be practical and actually serious will tell you to go ♥♥♥♥ urself when you force him to read it.
Because it is nonsense.
It's smart. It's overthought. But it's ♥♥♥♥ing stupid to think that is how reality works.
Shakespear wrote about drama, not real life. His problems are imaginary and constructed within some sort of a dumb realm he made up. Only idiots, absolute idiots that are almost comically stupid exist within his fiction. And knowing their problems, and treating them like something important, is idiotic to say the least.

Now. Now. If you had not understood anything of that I had said.
Here's what I mean in a sum up.
Dark Souls 2 talks about real life issues.
LOL XD ♥♥♥♥ING HELL.
Now, hold up for a sec.
Vendrick is a king who had almost achieved something. Then, he got depressed, gave up, decided that none of this matters, and let all the crap fall apart. Understandable. Reflective. Actual real life problem. Depression. Very relevant.
Now, what does Gwyn stand for?
He's a guy, who tried to enslave humanity. That's cool. Now, he wanted humanity to not evolve.
Holy♥♥♥♥♥♥ that is an actual statement about the Church and many of the guys in power who wished their people to stay gullible.
Now, do we ever exploit that theme? Nope, it's only mentioned in the lore. In the end, the game is about going through a mysterious dead world, that has none of that at all, but it has plenty of other stuff, but none of it... Well... It's mostly dead... And... Not really relevant.
I don't know. There was like this guy who got corrupt. That's cool, but what about it? There is that guy who had failed. Well, we all fail. That guy was a loser though (Yhorm). Then, there is some wizard that helped some awesome soldiers. What about him? Oh, he just went insane.
OVER.
Meanwhile, in Dark Souls 2 all of these characters have understandable archs, that we can sometimes relate to. Some of them so geniously presented.
The Rotten. His cutscene opens up with him trying to fix something that could not be fixed. Wow, and later on you go to his city. Where someone made a fatal mistake, and because of it, everyone died. And you are someone who is going to finish the damn story, that was begun, by ending what the original city dwellers tried to do. Sorry... I meant finishing.
In Dark Souls 2 the firekeeper is not just a tool. The game is very progressive about it. She has a story, that you follow. A very enigmatic one, but it is there. Meanwhile, in all the other games, the firekeeper is just a waifu, that gets killed, and then comes back. She does your leveling. She gives u stuff. There is absolutely barely any development (yes, I do count the eyes, and murder), and it is absolutely. I'M GOING TO SAY IT. Sexist to say that it is fair that the main character who is a female does nothing but stuff... Meh.
I think it has all gone for far too long.
I hope you get my point with why I love that game.
It's hard to communicate those emotions.
But the truth is, I just felt like Dark Souls 2 much more easily resonates with people. Whilst Dark Souls 3 is just trying to be evil and dark, and because of that it forgets to do anything that impresses us on an emotional level, but rather it just makes us go "oh, no" or "holy♥♥♥♥♥♥. Those aren't emotions. Those are... Well. These are still emotions, but they aren't really deep.
The twist that was with Yhorm and Siegward barely worked, because we barely cared for them. The first one was a breathing corpse, that was also agressive for no reason, and the other was just a meme.
The one with Creighton and Pate felt more personal, because we talked to both of these guys, and the decison we were supposed to make was less on the moral side, and more on the gut feeling. Which is much more probable than just...
"One is good, one is bad. Kill the latter." We got with Creighton. Or "they're all insane." Or "you're the bad guy" (Catgirl).

Geez. Okay, it's enough.
Ask me questions though, and I'll keep writting.
Right now, I just don't know what about.
There is just so much to say.
So much to talk about.

First question, I expect it to be something like "Why aren't you writting on this on the Dark Souls 2 forums?" Well, this is because I don't want to be pandered to. I want to hear negative opinions. I want to hear the actual side of the argument.
This post isn't for my self-esteem. It's for the Dark Souls community.

Good night. Or morning. Whatever.

[fillername]

Escrito originalmente por Xengre:

Escrito originalmente por Sabaithal:

...so you haven't played it, and you assume the Fume Knight is easy just because the game isn't as twitchy-fast as the games that came after it? Well I guess that's all I need to know.

Uh yeah? There is literally no reason to assume otherwise. I understand the game's mechanics, in some cases far better than its diehard fans sadly like stamina/rolling/iframes vs DS3 and DS1 myths, and the game isn't going to magically change when I go from watching it to playing it. Still the same game with the exact same stuff happening at an incredibly slow pace. At least make a reasonable argument before trying to dismiss something.

Fume Knight is so much more difficult than Nameless because you can't roll spam through his attacks. Nameless can have a chunk of his moveset dodged through strafing him anyhow. Cobine this with the fact that Fume Knight actually punishes Estus unlike almost every boss in 3, this makes Fumey very difficult. I think Sully is more difficult than Fume Knight, but he is the only thing in 3 I would say is around him. Midir maybe. 3 has the opposite problem where it looks very difficult, but you clown on every boss when you play it.

[Sabaithal]

Escrito originalmente por Xengre:

Escrito originalmente por Sabaithal:

...so you haven't played it, and you assume the Fume Knight is easy just because the game isn't as twitchy-fast as the games that came after it? Well I guess that's all I need to know.

Uh yeah? There is literally no reason to assume otherwise. I understand the game's mechanics, in some cases far better than its diehard fans sadly like stamina/rolling/iframes vs DS3 and DS1 myths, and the game isn't going to magically change when I go from watching it to playing it. Still the same game with the exact same stuff happening at an incredibly slow pace. At least make a reasonable argument before trying to dismiss something.

That's like saying that a lets-play is exactly the same as picking up a controller/M&Kb and actually playing the game. Unless the game is primarily story focused and as such has extremely simplified gameplay, its not the same.

If you can't even be bothered to play the game, a dark souls game especially, you're opinion on the gameplay isn't valid.

[Xengre]

Escrito originalmente por William See:

Escrito originalmente por Xengre:

Uh yeah? There is literally no reason to assume otherwise. I understand the game's mechanics, in some cases far better than its diehard fans sadly like stamina/rolling/iframes vs DS3 and DS1 myths, and the game isn't going to magically change when I go from watching it to playing it. Still the same game with the exact same stuff happening at an incredibly slow pace. At least make a reasonable argument before trying to dismiss something.

Uhhhh, i mean, i think im going to trust someone who’s actually played it rather than someone who says theyve “studied” videos and wiki articles about it. Thats like saying you know how to drive a car by looking at a parts manual and watching other people drive.

Your going to try and tell me that Fume Knight is going to be a challenge to me when I can, for example, fairly easily beat the FAR faster, FAR more damaging, with far wider move sets, with actual timing mix ups Nameless King naked at SL1 with a +0 weapon along with the rest of the game?

Or how about the fact that I've actually seen the boss fight in video as well and you guys act like it will be different during actual play? That literally doesn't make sense. Its obvious who has rather limited gaming experience and skills here which is stunting your perspective and judgement. Your analogy is horrible. In your example the person has ZERO driving experience. On this topic I HAVE played action games, I've played games with similar gameplay, and I've even played DS3 which is quite close in this situation. I've also done my research to understand some of the differences in mechanics and such. This isn't some novice who has literally zero experience on the topic. Hence, your analogy doesn't even fit.

Escrito originalmente por fillername:

Escrito originalmente por Xengre:

Uh yeah? There is literally no reason to assume otherwise. I understand the game's mechanics, in some cases far better than its diehard fans sadly like stamina/rolling/iframes vs DS3 and DS1 myths, and the game isn't going to magically change when I go from watching it to playing it. Still the same game with the exact same stuff happening at an incredibly slow pace. At least make a reasonable argument before trying to dismiss something.

Fume Knight is so much more difficult than Nameless because you can't roll spam through his attacks. Nameless can have a chunk of his moveset dodged through strafing him anyhow. Cobine this with the fact that Fume Knight actually punishes Estus unlike almost every boss in 3, this makes Fumey very difficult. I think Sully is more difficult than Fume Knight, but he is the only thing in 3 I would say is around him. Midir maybe. 3 has the opposite problem where it looks very difficult, but you clown on every boss when you play it.

Oh, look its one of those people spreading false myths about DS3 and DS2 that I referenced earlier. As you have played it and I haven't this will be ironic for me to be teaching you wont it?

You can roll through Fume's moveset if you increase adaptability or time it correctly (tho stricter timing lower adaptability). In DS2 you actually genearlly have SUPERIOR iframes over DS3. You also can spam roll just as much but a lot of people panic roll accidentally executing a roll technique (look it up) which cancels actions to do an emergency roll at the cost of more stamina consumption). Yeah, you can literally abuse roll just as much in DS2 but even more so because you can break out of actions. Literally, a godsend to reactive players.

How does Fume Knight punish Estus anymore? Lol? He is a SLOW boss with major windows of exploitation, easy to avoid attacks, and it isn't even as aggressive as several bosses in DS3. Champ Gundyr and some others actually will immediately ramp up their AI's aggression if you try to Estus to punish you for it negating your Estus usage or killing you if you were close enough to begin with. Their general aggression and speed as well as some of their wide reach attacks are far more problematic when trying to Estus than anything Fume offers. Oh, and you can Estus just as fast in DS2 if you level adapatability (another common misconception, omg Estus is so much slower in DS2 blah blah). Yes, it doesn't apply the entire heal instantly but that is irrelevant if used during a safe period because you can then simply avoid their attack for literally 1-2 seconds until it finishes. Btw, Estus heals significantly MORE HP by far in DS2 than DS3. Too many misconceptions about DS2 Estus being inferior to DS3.

The bosses you list in DS3 as being hard I find to be a joke. In fact, I still found these guys to be a joke before I got bored when advancing my NG+5 SL26 +2 char who I played naked. In fact, I don't really think any part of DS3 is even remotely difficult unless you are placing pretty extreme restrictions then "slightly difficult". So you were saying?...

Escrito originalmente por Sabaithal:

Escrito originalmente por Xengre:

Uh yeah? There is literally no reason to assume otherwise. I understand the game's mechanics, in some cases far better than its diehard fans sadly like stamina/rolling/iframes vs DS3 and DS1 myths, and the game isn't going to magically change when I go from watching it to playing it. Still the same game with the exact same stuff happening at an incredibly slow pace. At least make a reasonable argument before trying to dismiss something.

That's like saying that a lets-play is exactly the same as picking up a controller/M&Kb and actually playing the game. Unless the game is primarily story focused and as such has extremely simplified gameplay, its not the same.

If you can't even be bothered to play the game, a dark souls game especially, you're opinion on the gameplay isn't valid.

That might be a valid statement assuming I had ZERO experience with these types of games. I have plenty, far more than you in fact. That is why your assumptions are so reckless.

[The Fountaineer 🖋]

^ Okay, even with experience in Dark Souls 1 or 3, you still cant accurately assess with 100% certainity whether you’d like the game or even be able to objectively assess the games mechanics if you havent played it. Thats kinda how it works on the whole

Edit: what im trying to say is theres a reason dks2 is fairly polarizing. Its vastly differebt from the rest of rhe series in specific areas.

[Xengre]

Escrito originalmente por William See:

^ Okay, even with experience in Dark Souls 1 or 3, you still cant accurately assess with 100% certainity whether you’d like the game or even be able to objectively assess the games mechanics if you havent played it. Thats kinda how it works on the whole

While I primarily enjoy story first (hence RPGs are my fav genre) I do want some half decent gameplay. I can safely tell with my substantial experience, especially with far faster and more mobile games that DS2 is simply to slow to present a challenge. I felt that way about DS3 when I first played it and considered refunding it. The only reason I didn't was because I ended up enjoying exploring, finding treasures, and parts of the lore. I ended up restricting my first ever DS experience (aka that DS3 run) to a SL1 challenge run and I wasn't allowed to use shields or parry. Still found it excessively easy. When I'm watching fights like Fume or Smough & Ornstein I'm literally forcing myself to watch it because of how depressingly slow it is. The games I like you tend to make 3-8 moves in the type they manage even one attack. Its like watching the clock waiting for it to be over. That isn't fun. There is no challenge there. Its akin to trying to say Daigo Umehara with his vast fighting game experience can't make an accurate judgement on how well he can play a new fighting game he has done research on and watched gameplay of, especially vs the campaign's AI... The guy has ludicrous reaction speed and experience with fighting games. Just because someone finds a fighting game hard doesn't mean he will (granted I don't play any game enough to be at his level, but a good reference example).

I've offered you guys to bring up what is soooooo different that will cause me issues in DS2 but you guys haven't, not counting fillername's crazy misinformation. Really, playing melee without a shield in DS boils down to roll and swing, roll and swing. By all means do enlighten me as to what I am missing though.

Escrito originalmente por Sabaithal:

Escrito originalmente por Xengre:

That might be a valid statement assuming I had ZERO experience with these types of games. I have plenty, far more than you in fact. That is why your assumptions are so reckless.

Then why don't you actually play the game and prove it? Sorry, but any souls veteran can look up info and videos on any given similarly difficult game all they like, it doesn't change the fact that you haven't played it, haven't acclimated to its controls, and haven't done anything that other people have done, and both liked and disliked about the game.

Great idea! I should go waste money and time on a game I totally wont enjoy because some rando on the internet sucks at action games and can't accurately judge a situation vs his skill level due to his inexperience. No thanks. I can absolutely make a 100% accurate judgement in the speed of Fume's and other attacks. It is glacial to me, period. Playing it isn't going to change that. That is an absolute fact.

[Sabaithal]

So I'm guessing you don't know that you can't just roll through every attack like BB or Ds3? Ds3/BB tactics will not always work on Ds2, and clearly you don't understand that because you haven't even played it.

In the end, you haven't played the game. You're opinion on how you would hypothetically do doesn't matter. You haven't played the game. So stop trying to act like you know everything about it.

[Artek [General]]

Escrito originalmente por Sabaithal:

So I'm guessing you don't know that you can't just roll through every attack like BB or Ds3? Ds3/BB tactics will not always work on Ds2, and clearly you don't understand that because you haven't even played it.

In the end, you haven't played the game. You're opinion on how you would hypothetically do doesn't matter. You haven't played the game. So stop trying to act like you know everything about it.

You actually can once you level up adaptability (provided you'll even realize what it does... another little thing that's just bad design).

Except the game loves spambush (which counters rolling in every of these games) and some bosses have disgusting lingering / oversized hitboxes. I think it was worse in original version and was toned downn in SotFS since i don't remember having too many of issues, but i did see fottage of some disgusting phantom hitting.

[Sabaithal]

Escrito originalmente por Artek General:

Escrito originalmente por Sabaithal:

So I'm guessing you don't know that you can't just roll through every attack like BB or Ds3? Ds3/BB tactics will not always work on Ds2, and clearly you don't understand that because you haven't even played it.

In the end, you haven't played the game. You're opinion on how you would hypothetically do doesn't matter. You haven't played the game. So stop trying to act like you know everything about it.

You actually can once you level up adaptability (provided you'll even realize what it does... another little thing that's just bad design).

Except the game loves spambush (which counters rolling in every of these games) and some bosses have disgusting lingering / oversized hitboxes. I think it was worse in original version and was toned downn in SotFS since i don't remember having too many of issues, but i did see fottage of some disgusting phantom hitting.

You can in PvP maybe, but less so in PvE, especially against all those dual-wielding hollows in brume tower. *PTSD flashbacks*

Also I'm pretty sure every souls game loves spambushing the player, its just that the first game isn't subtle about it (3 guys standing in the open in one room), and Ds3 drops the pretense midway through the game.

[Xengre]

Escrito originalmente por Artek General:

Escrito originalmente por Sabaithal:

So I'm guessing you don't know that you can't just roll through every attack like BB or Ds3? Ds3/BB tactics will not always work on Ds2, and clearly you don't understand that because you haven't even played it.

In the end, you haven't played the game. You're opinion on how you would hypothetically do doesn't matter. You haven't played the game. So stop trying to act like you know everything about it.

You actually can once you level up adaptability (provided you'll even realize what it does... another little thing that's just bad design).

Except the games loves spambush and some bosses have disgusting lingering / oversized hitboxes. I think it was worse in original version and was toned downn in SotFS since i don't remember having too many of issues, but i did see fottage of some disgusting phantom hitting.

Yeah, I even offered that exact point about adaptability in my earlier reply to them because it is such a common misconception. Sigh...

To clarify, personally, I have not only experience in far harder faster action games but I regularly take on challenges like fighting an enemy or boss you shouldn't be in an action RPG that would normally 1-hit you for like 10x your health causing instant death while you whittle away at its HP. Literally, you can't take a single hit or you die but if you succeed uber exp, loot beyond them in the area, boss rewards, etc. Also, I'm quite familiar with fighting pay2win players and entire groups of over leveled players compared to me (like me at level 90 vs level 130s), or even solo'ing entire guilds like 1vs30, not exaggerated in action based MMORPGs. I'm well versed in the very thing you guys (not Artek, the others) are claiming I would find super difficult.

Escrito originalmente por Sabaithal:

Escrito originalmente por Artek General:

You actually can once you level up adaptability (provided you'll even realize what it does... another little thing that's just bad design).

Except the game loves spambush (which counters rolling in every of these games) and some bosses have disgusting lingering / oversized hitboxes. I think it was worse in original version and was toned downn in SotFS since i don't remember having too many of issues, but i did see fottage of some disgusting phantom hitting.

You can in PvP maybe, but less so in PvE, especially against all those dual-wielding hollows in brume tower. *PTSD flashbacks*

Also I'm pretty sure every souls game loves spambushing the player, its just that the first game isn't subtle about it (3 guys standing in the open in one room), and Ds3 drops the pretense midway through the game.

You can, you just aren't good enough to do it properly apparently and may not have leveled adaptability enough. I mean people do naked and no dmg runs... c'mon. You shouldn't claim something isn't possible just because you don't have the skill to do so.

[Artek [General]]

Escrito originalmente por Sabaithal:

You can in PvP maybe, but less so in PvE, especially against all those dual-wielding hollows in brume tower. *PTSD flashbacks*

Also I'm pretty sure every souls game loves spambushing the player, its just that the first game isn't subtle about it (3 guys standing in the open in one room), and Ds3 drops the pretense midway through the game.

As i said in my previous giant post - yes, every game has spambush moments, but DS2 overuses them to a disgusting degree. Even worse so - it does that for bosses too, which is... Again, DS1 had Ornstein and Smough, the legendary duo. But that's about it.

The amount of gank bosses in DS2 is concerning at least. If i had the time i would probably manually go through every boss in these games and count the amount of ganks and how severe they were.

[Sabaithal]

Escrito originalmente por Xengre:

You can, you just aren't good enough to do it properly apparently and may not have leveled adaptability enough. I mean people do naked and no dmg runs... c'mon. You shouldn't claim something isn't possible just because you don't have the skill to do so.

Says the person who hasn't even played the game. Just stop. All you're doing is embarrasing yourself now.

[TrueArchery]

2 doesn't have more iframes until 111+ Agl which is like 50 Adp and a ♥♥♥♥ ton of levels compared to the other breakpoints. It softcaps at 110, kinda trolly.
And even then it isn't as quick and stamina-UNhungry as 3's. Plus quickstep is better and presumably the Bloodring, don't know its framedata though.

Panicrolling (aka mashing B) won't ever lead to quick rolls.

2's estus heals more but I think that the comparison is flawed. 2 also has higher max HP. But those numbers without any context don't prove much, the enemy damage could be scaled up, too. Or it's their counter measure for "balancing" the enemy spam whereas they increased your mobility in 3.

Healing vs FK (or Sir Alonne, he's a better example actually) is actually not that easy. Lots of moves are just fast enough to punish a heal so he doesn't have many safe openings. And I'm not talking about base Adp heals, I'm talking about 30ish Adp for 105 Agility (softcap and useful for PvE due to many questionable hitboxes). SA is 2's pinnacle of punishing poorly timed healing.
Oh, and if you struggle with the boss the NPC summons are also pretty much trash. The FK's healing mechanic also punishes people who didn't collect every wedge yet and/or can't keep him away from the thingies.

edit: What I forgot to mention:

Escrito originalmente por William See:

whatever build diversity is available in game is bogged down by crappy meta builds (which is more the community’s fault than anything but w/e)

No, this is not the community's fault. It's the dev's fault, they're being bad at their job of balancing the game properly.

[fillername]

"Oh, look its one of those people spreading false myths about DS3 and DS2 that I referenced earlier. As you have played it and I haven't this will be ironic for me to be teaching you wont it?

You can roll through Fume's moveset if you increase adaptability or time it correctly (tho stricter timing lower adaptability). In DS2 you actually genearlly have SUPERIOR iframes over DS3. You also can spam roll just as much but a lot of people panic roll accidentally executing a roll technique (look it up) which cancels actions to do an emergency roll at the cost of more stamina consumption). Yeah, you can literally abuse roll just as much in DS2 but even more so because you can break out of actions. Literally, a godsend to reactive players.

How does Fume Knight punish Estus anymore? Lol? He is a SLOW boss with major windows of exploitation, easy to avoid attacks, and it isn't even as aggressive as several bosses in DS3. Champ Gundyr and some others actually will immediately ramp up their AI's aggression if you try to Estus to punish you for it negating your Estus usage or killing you if you were close enough to begin with. Their general aggression and speed as well as some of their wide reach attacks are far more problematic when trying to Estus than anything Fume offers. Oh, and you can Estus just as fast in DS2 if you level adapatability (another common misconception, omg Estus is so much slower in DS2 blah blah). Yes, it doesn't apply the entire heal instantly but that is irrelevant if used during a safe period because you can then simply avoid their attack for literally 1-2 seconds until it finishes. Btw, Estus heals significantly MORE HP by far in DS2 than DS3. Too many misconceptions about DS2 Estus being inferior to DS3.

The bosses you list in DS3 as being hard I find to be a joke. In fact, I still found these guys to be a joke before I got bored when advancing my NG+5 SL26 +2 char who I played naked. In fact, I don't really think any part of DS3 is even remotely difficult unless you are placing pretty extreme restrictions then "slightly difficult". So you were saying?..."

Uhh well you seem more than a little triggered, but whatever. I'm sure you're a wonderful teacher without a hint of bias, after all not palying games you're criticizing is an excellent way to teach.

Yes you can roll through Fume's moveset, wonderful observation. Rolling in 2 is much more delibrate than in 3, rolling is a much greater risk overall. Because of the stamina consumption and roll catching often at play. In 3 rolls cost next to nothing and give hefty I-frames. You can get more in 2, but it requires a ridiculous amount of levels put into it. The usual stopping point in 2 is 105, which is equal to your I-frames in 3. You can go further, but it requires investment. How about that, they give equal frames, but you get more stamina consumption in 2. It's almost like verifiable facts aren't lies because of reasons. Oh and for I-frames equivalent to CBR, you need 99 levels in ADP.

You can see this by playing the game. If you had played DS 2 you would realize that Fume is literally hard coded to thrust at you when you heal. Similar to bosses like Pontiff or Ornstein, except it can actually hit you unlike Ornstein. Congrats on picking one of the 5 bosses who punishes Estus, he's an exception. Now what makes estus punishing in 3 less effective is the fact that you have 10 gallons of Estus and it refills instantly. In 2, Estus regens over a period of time, so if you get hit while drinking you're likely dead. Champ and Pontiff do punish, but you're reset to your health before you drank instead of dying. I personally couldn't tell you the difference between Estus speed with levels in ADP tbh, it seems really minor.I also can't find a list of the affect of ADP on Estus online/ The health discrepancy is irrelevant because of what I said above. 3 healing slightly less means nothing when Estus is rarely punished and those punishes never kill you.

Congrats you killed some bosses on NG+7, fist only, with a DDR pad you're so cool. Not sure why this is relevant tbh. I don't think any souls game is very tough either, so uh not sure what you're getting at. Wish I could be as cool as you friend. Oh and I personally found Alonne more difficult, I juts think saying he's easy without playing the game is a new low for DS discussion. Didn't think it would be worse than #Elavatorgate.

[Kaneki]

For me, Bloodborne would be the best souls like game! i've played them all so far! But i have most hours in DS3. That doesn't matter - lorewise; i'd say get Bloodborne over DS2! It's also reflective to our human nature ;)

[Artek [General]]

Welp, i decided to actually go for it, even though its 2:AM.
Alright, so...

Dark Souls 1:

1. Bell Gargoyle: 2 enemies in 2nd phase.
   
2. Capra Demon: 3 enemies (2 of which can be killed easily).
   
3. Four Kings: 4 enemies who appear with a timer, so potentially you can make it so you don't have to experience any ganking.
   
4. Ornstein and Smough: 2 enemies.
   
5. Pinwheel: can ssummon copies (which are worthless, just as he is).

Dark Souls 3:

1. Curse-Rotted Greatwood. Many weak, passive hollows. Can get killed by Greatwood.
   
2. Crystal Sage. Summons his copies, much like Pinwheel. Copies die in 1 hit from any source and also become passive the moment the original takes damage.
   
3. Abyss Watchers. Progressively goes from 1 to 3 enemies. 3rd enemy is agressive to previous 2.
   
4. Deacons of the Deep. A LOT OF ENEMIES. However: passive and rarely attacks more than 2-3 at a time. Most are easily staggered and easily killed.
   
5. High Lord Wolnir. Many skeletons in later phases. However not guaranteed. Skeletons get killed by papa.
   
6. Pontiff Sulyvahn: 2 enemies in 2nd phase. The 2nd enemy is a weakened version of the original, dealing less damage. Also telegraphs original's attacks making them predictable.
   
7. Twin Princes: can this even be considered a gank?... There are 2 of them, but they are technically the same entity. Not sure.
   
8. Ancient Wyvern. Not even really a boss... More like a challenge course or something. Also not sure if this should be here. But it is a "boss" with a healthbar, so...
   
9. Sister Friede: 2 enemies in 2nd phase.
   
10. Champion Graveattender: starts with 3 enemies (2 of whom are easily killed), gets +1 enemy in 2nd phase, 1st enemy changes rhytm to a more passive one to compensate.
    
11. Demon in Pain and Demon from Below: 2 enemies. But most of the time the 2nd enemy is extuinguished and barely provides any danger aside from extremely obvious attacks.
    
12. Spear of the Church: Up to 3 enemies (one of them can be a player... Who can't heal).

Dark Souls 2: SotFS

1. Executioner's Chariot: Many enemies (skeletons) arisen by witches. The boss himself forces you to hide in LITERALY CORNERS. Thankfully, the skeletons take damage from him too.
   
2. Looking Glass Knight: Summons a red phantom to help in 2nd phase. The red phantom can't heal, but can be an actual player. The concept is actually kinda cool.
   
3. The Skeleton Lords: Many enemies (skeletons) every single one of which is considered part of the "boss".
   
4. Flexile Sentry: Gets 2 or 3 assassin to help on NG+ cycles. Not sure if can be counted?
   
5. Lost Sinner: same situation as Flexile Sentry.
   
6. Belfry Gargoyles: like gargoyles from DS1 but worse. Up to 6 enemies must be killed, but at worst you will be fighting 3 at a time.
   
7. Ruin Sentinels: 3 enemies. But thankfully, the 1st one can be killed separately.
   
8. Royal Rat Vanguard: MANY RATS. After killing half the population the "real" boss will spawn, who is just another rat, but with a wig.
   
9. Royal Rat Authority: 5 enemies? I don't remember how many little rats there were. They are fairly annoying and can proc curse on bites. Also this is no-coop zone. One of the most annoying bosses, frankly.
   
10. The Duke's Dear Freja: the boss is assited by an army of spiders. Thankfully, the spiders are fairly passive and die quickly.
    
11. Darklurker: 2 enemies in 2nd phase: summons a clone of himself who deals full damage, and as such doubles the intensity of the fight. Ironically, one of the best bosses in the game (minus the grinding getting to him).
    
12. Twin Dragonriders: 2 enemies. One fights you on the groudn, the other one shoots arrows, but comes down too when first one is hurt 50%. For some reasons 2nd one has very small health.
    
13. Prowling Magus and Congregation: Many enemies. A bunch of hollows, lead by a heretic and couple miracle casters. Consists of generic enemies who were given shared healthpool.
    
14. Throne Watcher and Throne Defender: 2 enemies. Can revive each other. But are ultimately pathetic with very low health.
    
15. Elana, Squalid Queen: many enemies, but 2 of them are most dangerous. Summons skeletons and - for some reasons? - a clone of Velsdat.
    
16. Afflicted Graverobber, Ancient Soldier Varg, and Cerah the Old Explorer: 3 enemies. Literally PvP gank-squad: The Boss.
    
17. Burnt Ivory King: many enemies precede the actual bossfight who will spawn indefinitely unless the player will find the Loyce knights. Can go from fighting 1-2 enemies in the final bossfight, to fighting an army. Not sure i can have him here, i actually enjoy this boss a lot...
    
18. Lud and Zallen, the King's Pets: 2 enemies. Doubled amount of already existing boss. Also just getting to them is frustruating because Frigid Outskirts is the worst area in all of the games and you can't change my mind.

Make of this what you will.