why is the age of dark the age of man

[sussy insurgent]

i have been grinding the lore until i came to this final question, why would the age of dark be the age of man. how would human be able to live in a world witout ligth. it seem conter intuitive. and if it is true how would human survive the abyss anyway.

[SilentKhaos]

Originally posted by Chicken Sauce:

i have been grinding the lore until i came to this final question, why would the age of dark be the age of man. how would human be able to live in a world witout ligth. it seem conter intuitive. and if it is true how would human survive the abyss anyway.

the abyss was created by a man, that is why artorias needed a ring to traverse it since he was a god(?) or something of the sort. he did not belong in the abyss. however undead could not traverse the abyss either because, from what i learned from lore, they were cursed by the gods and hence could not traverse with the gods' curse upon them

[ChubbNutt]

Because all men hold a piece of the dark soul.

[SilentKhaos]

Originally posted by Baby Face Cool Guy:

Because all men hold a piece of the dark soul.

see, we both answered a half of your question each

[Le_Rieur]

After the Light, the Dark.
After the Gods, the Men.

The true apparence of mankind is the gaunt one, not the "normal" one.

[Sabaithal]

You can think of "man" as a mix of both light and dark, one thats unstable and prone to change.

Light is commonly associated with logic, fanaticism, blind faith, the pursuit of progress, sometimes morality, sometimes the corruption or total lack thereof, among other things.

Dark is commonly associated with most emotions, primal urges, and most of all want, the compulsion and desire for more...anything. More wealth, more power, more items, more souls. Many humans at their core, both in the game and in real life, can be interpreted as being influenced primarily by darkness. Therefore the age of dark is the age of man, as he truly is without light. A literal dark age with no progress or recording of history. Just people blindly following their emotions, wants, and fear.

[boiling pie]

Originally posted by Le_Rieur:

After the Light, the Dark.
After the Gods, the Men.

The true apparence of mankind is the gaunt one, not the "normal" one.

Which makes me wonder whether the true form of man is really something I want. It seems deficient.
Could it be that we always need the flame and the divine to be whole? (like the poster above explains).
Which gives meaning to "make Londor whole again", after we have usurped the flame and represent the divine ourselves. Hollows don't want to be hollows.

[Le_Rieur]

Originally posted by boiling pie:

Originally posted by Le_Rieur:

After the Light, the Dark.
After the Gods, the Men.

The true apparence of mankind is the gaunt one, not the "normal" one.

Which makes me wonder whether the true form of man is really something I want. It seems deficient.
Could it be that we always need the flame and the divine to be whole? (like the poster above explains).
Which gives meaning to "make Londor whole again", after we have usurped the flame and represent the divine ourselves. Hollows don't want to be hollows.

The "true" ending of DKS3 is the perfect middle between the Age of Fire and the Age of Dark, prophesied in DKS2.
Kindle the First Flame may reshape the world, and rule it. The Hollows search, fear, want the power, because they are empty vessels. So, if we associate the two, the Hollows have a messiah, a true god, who all that exists take embodiment ans conscience : the Lord of Hollows.

[Beef]

men end the age of the gods. simple as that my dude

[lailaamell]

The age of dark is the age of man due to the mere nature of humanity an undead is slowly drained by the curse thats why the abyss is harming undead becuse the dark sign is sealing and burning your humanity(dark soul) away. Age of fire fuels the gods it fading weakens the gods for their power comes from the first flame. While humans grow stronger

[Daelight]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

You can think of "man" as a mix of both light and dark, one thats unstable and prone to change.

Light is commonly associated with logic, fanaticism, blind faith, the pursuit of progress, sometimes morality, sometimes the corruption or total lack thereof, among other things.

Dark is commonly associated with most emotions, primal urges, and most of all want, the compulsion and desire for more...anything. More wealth, more power, more items, more souls. Many humans at their core, both in the game and in real life, can be interpreted as being influenced primarily by darkness. Therefore the age of dark is the age of man, as he truly is without light. A literal dark age with no progress or recording of history. Just people blindly following their emotions, wants, and fear.

Was about to say a whole lot of sheet of explanation about that, then, I saw Sabaithal's comment here. I think in the past Sabaithal used to "make fun" of my comments with some other bucketheads here, but I really have to strongly agree on the fact and fact alone, that Sabaithal gave a really good and interesting answer. This is your answer, OP, that is more than enough.

Nice, Sabaithal, I really liked that answer to the point of admitting that you are a really good and knowledgeable individual inside and outside of the game. Really.

[sussy insurgent]

thank you guys for your reply.

i have to admit i was impressed by some answer there wich i didnt even think about.

but there is still someting i dont understand. why would the abyss harm human if ts part of them.

the age of dark being the age of man would make any sense if every human get spawn killed by the abyss.

ive seen some poster saying that the age of dark isnt necessarly dark, but just an age were human rule over the earth.

anyhow can someone clarify this pls.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Chicken Sauce:

thank you guys for your reply.

i have to admit i was impressed by some answer there wich i didnt even think about.

but there is still someting i dont understand. why would the abyss harm human if ts part of them.

the age of dark being the age of man would make any sense if every human get spawn killed by the abyss.

ive seen some poster saying that the age of dark isnt necessarly dark, but just an age were human rule over the earth.

anyhow can someone clarify this pls.

The Abyss is NOT synonmous with the entirety of the force we know as the dark. It is just a...well something akin to a minor force of nature run amok. It did not exist when fire first birthed in the kiln. Most theories point towards overuse of the original dark soul (manus) spawning the abyss, an incredibly powerful being or force bound by certain rules we do not quite understand.

It does not consume all, as you have come into contact with it several times over the course of the games. In Ds3, you see it when fighting wolnir. If you break his bracelets, the abyss pulls him in, but not you.

But it can be seen as something rather similar to the darksign. The Darksign is a ring of fire surrounding a black hole, an "abyss" that marks one as a "human". And if a human dies without the darksign (or dies so many times that the darksign fades out) they go "hollow", completely devoid of all reason and logic, feral, and unable to remember who or what they once were. So in a way, this "abyss" inside you consumes all, all your souls, and once those are gone, all your reason, logic, and memories, until finally there is nothing left to consume. Then you truly die. Likely this is the reason the Abyss does not harm you under MOST circumstances, because you already have a way to stave off the dark (the darksign).

Wolnir did not. Those bracelets around his arms were the only thing keeping him from being consumed. Look at his body. Its completely skeletal, effectively hollow, and those bracelets are the only thing the person known as "wolnir" is attached to now. A sentiment maybe? Or a reminder of a previous memory? Who knows. But with them gone, there is nothing to stave off the darkness inside him.

I might be missing a few things here btw, had to edit in and out a few stuff.

[fillername]

I really doubt that the age of dark is literal dark, it's moreof a metaphor thing. I always took the Abyss to be a metaphor for an ideology taken to an extreme. Like the gods are terrible, they built a kingdom off of propoganda and slaves, they lie, manipulate and are generally awful. Manus, Nashandra, Elana, and co aren't so hot either. Rather than a corrupt aristocracy it's pretty much chaos with death everywhere. On the flip side you get something like the Undead Crypt, which is devoted to the dark, but also isn't super murdery. Aldia also tells us to go between the extremes of Manus and Gwyn and find something grey between both. That's just my interpretation.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by fillername:

I really doubt that the age of dark is literal dark, it's moreof a metaphor thing. I always took the Abyss to be a metaphor for an ideology taken to an extreme. Like the gods are terrible, they built a kingdom off of propoganda and slaves, they lie, manipulate and are generally awful. Manus, Nashandra, Elana, and co aren't so hot either. Rather than a corrupt aristocracy it's pretty much chaos with death everywhere. On the flip side you get something like the Undead Crypt, which is devoted to the dark, but also isn't super murdery. Aldia also tells us to go between the extremes of Manus and Gwyn and find something grey between both. That's just my interpretation.

Well here's another interpretation.

That which we percieve as "dark souls" are not completely devoid of light, or something similar to light. Look at Nashandra for example. She is a daughter of manus, a being composed of the dark, yet she was able to trick the cursed undead into killing off all her opposition so she could ascend the throne of want. That requires sophisticated deception. So logic is definitely still there. And look at her "true form" as well. She holds a light in one of her hands (and uses it as a weapon periodically), and even when she is dying, falling to her knees, she continues to hold this light up above herself. Her intentions were full of dark, but she certainly had logic and power.

In fact, all dark souls throughout the series have some kind of light. Even the humanity sprites have a while outline around them (and two light eyes).

So it got me thinking, the death of the first flame is not the death of all souls in the world. According to this theory, logic and reason are part of light (IE souls), so if all light in the world is gone then so is that. BUT the second ending in Ds3 (the one where you let the light fade with the firekeeper) has the flame go out, the world fade to pitch black AND THEN the firekeeper speaks to you "ashen one, hearest thou my voice still?" So you are both clearly there, and the firekeeper at least still has her wits about her (presumably the player too, but who knows). So she still has the ability to reason, despite the first flame being gone.

So if the flame is not linked to all souls, then what is it? If I had to guess, I would say it represents something akin to "hope". Hope for the future, hope for progress, ect. Something to look forward to now or in the future. And when hope is gone, what else is there except the moments in front of you? Might as well enjoy yourself, as there is nothing left to look forward to (this is a dark impulse), hence the age of dark.

[fillername]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Originally posted by fillername:

I really doubt that the age of dark is literal dark, it's moreof a metaphor thing. I always took the Abyss to be a metaphor for an ideology taken to an extreme. Like the gods are terrible, they built a kingdom off of propoganda and slaves, they lie, manipulate and are generally awful. Manus, Nashandra, Elana, and co aren't so hot either. Rather than a corrupt aristocracy it's pretty much chaos with death everywhere. On the flip side you get something like the Undead Crypt, which is devoted to the dark, but also isn't super murdery. Aldia also tells us to go between the extremes of Manus and Gwyn and find something grey between both. That's just my interpretation.

Well here's another interpretation.

That which we percieve as "dark souls" are not completely devoid of light, or something similar to light. Look at Nashandra for example. She is a daughter of manus, a being composed of the dark, yet she was able to trick the cursed undead into killing off all her opposition so she could ascend the throne of want. That requires sophisticated deception. So logic is definitely still there. And look at her "true form" as well. She holds a light in one of her hands (and uses it as a weapon periodically), and even when she is dying, falling to her knees, she continues to hold this light up above herself. Her intentions were full of dark, but she certainly had logic and power.

In fact, all dark souls throughout the series have some kind of light. Even the humanity sprites have a while outline around them (and two light eyes).

So it got me thinking, the death of the first flame is not the death of all souls in the world. According to this theory, logic and reason are part of light (IE souls), so if all light in the world is gone then so is that. BUT the second ending in Ds3 (the one where you let the light fade with the firekeeper) has the flame go out, the world fade to pitch black AND THEN the firekeeper speaks to you "ashen one, hearest thou my voice still?" So you are both clearly there, and the firekeeper at least still has her wits about her (presumably the player too, but who knows).

So if the flame is not linked to all souls, then what is it? If I had to guess, I would say it represents something akin to "hope". Hope for the future, hope for progress, ect. Something to look forward to now or in the future. And when hope is gone, what else is there except the moments in front of you? Might as well enjoy yourself, as there is nothing left to look forward to (this is a dark impulse), hence the age of dark.

Interesting. When I say chaos, I don't mean literal mindless running around, although Oolacile is an example of that. I mean a general lack of structure and order. IIRC the exact wording for waht happened in Oolacile was about "humanity running wild".

In regards to the light your mentioning, the light we see from the First Flame and in the souls of the gods is yellow/orange. Whereas the light is white is regards to the humanity sprites and Nashandra's palm. Maybe the dark has it's own light, or it's own first flame that has those colors.

Agreed with your third paragraph mostly, the only thing I have to add is that you can stab the firekeeper in the dark ending. I assume that means you have your wits about you. That might happen before the flame fully fades though, haven't gone for the ending in a while.

The first flame being an unambiguously good thing doesn't really sit right with me since we have characters who aren't evil who oppose it. Lothric and Lorian oppose it, Aldia opposes it, Vendrick opposes it. And isn't the idea of the ending that the flame has been linked so many times that it means nothing anymore. What once produced an explosion produces some embers. The solution to this comes through Aldia and BOTC, but they got assassinated by Miyazaki.