Why does everyone need help with Dancer?

[Little Miss Terror]

3rd try got her down to 1/7 hp unembered, 4th just made fun of her while not trying (got her to 1/2 hp), fifth I summoned some poor soul who was basically a distraction for 20 seconds before dying (beat her on that attempt).

I had more trouble charging up the gimmick blade 5 times without being hit every time when I was fighting Yhorm (and yes, it took me more tries to beat Yhorm). Aldrich makes Dancer look like a joke. Where is the difficulty in the Dancer fight? I really don't get it.

[fillername]

Originally posted by Lord ☆Sp@ce☆ Pan:

Originally posted by fillername:

I don't think she's very tough honestly, but her patterns are designed to be very different. Compare Pontiff's straightforward sword swings to dancer's very floaty way of attacking. It can screw with people who have less experience or skill. IMO shes tougher than the DLC bosses besides Midir, but that's moreso about how easy the DLC is honestly.

Pontiff pissed me off so much I summoned another player so that we could just destroy him. One attempt he was literally a single strike away from death, and I just got madder from there. Easily my least favourite boss so far.

I had a similar time with Pontiff, he's honestly become my favorite boss in the game. I found DS 3 fairy easy and Pontiff just murdered me over and over. It's honestly pretty smart design. Most players are going to struggle with Pontiff and get his way of attacking ingrained. Then the devs place Dancer who is pretty much the polar opposite. I don't like the fight, but it's a pretty smart idea.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by fillername:

Originally posted by Lord ☆Sp@ce☆ Pan:

Pontiff pissed me off so much I summoned another player so that we could just destroy him. One attempt he was literally a single strike away from death, and I just got madder from there. Easily my least favourite boss so far.

I had a similar time with Pontiff, he's honestly become my favorite boss in the game. I found DS 3 fairy easy and Pontiff just murdered me over and over. It's honestly pretty smart design. Most players are going to struggle with Pontiff and get his way of attacking ingrained. Then the devs place Dancer who is pretty much the polar opposite. I don't like the fight, but it's a pretty smart idea.

Me . . . Pontiff was first try with first char and with second char.
Difficulty vary from player to player, due to skills and gameplay style.

Some have better skills for dodging, others for parry, others for defending, others for positioning better waiting for the last movement or attack to land a hit and step back or land a combo . . .

Pontiff is easy if you play safe with a shield, waiting for the right moment to get near, land a hit and step back, but he can also be dodged (still, to dodge 6 times with the SL you get to pontiff is like wasting your stamina bar dodging, leaving with nothing or almost nothing to attack).
So, even dodging, you have to position yourself better so you have to dodge only once or twice, land a hit then step back.

Players that got to Pontiff the first time already playing this way (or that are great at other things too, sure) found Pontiff much easier than players that played differently all the way.

[fillername]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by fillername:

I had a similar time with Pontiff, he's honestly become my favorite boss in the game. I found DS 3 fairy easy and Pontiff just murdered me over and over. It's honestly pretty smart design. Most players are going to struggle with Pontiff and get his way of attacking ingrained. Then the devs place Dancer who is pretty much the polar opposite. I don't like the fight, but it's a pretty smart idea.

Me . . . Pontiff was first try with first char and with second char.
Difficulty vary from player to player, due to skills and gameplay style.

Some have better skills for dodging, others for parry, others for defending, others for positioning better waiting for the last movement or attack to land a hit and step back or land a combo . . .

Pontiff is easy if you play safe with a shield, waiting for the right moment to get near, land a hit and step back, but he can also be dodged (still, to dodge 6 times with the SL you get to pontiff is like wasting your stamina bar dodging, leaving with nothing or almost nothing to attack).
So, even dodging, you have to position yourself better so you have to dodge only once or twice, land a hit then step back.

Players that got to Pontiff the first time already playing this way (or that are great at other things too, sure) found Pontiff much easier than players that played differently all the way.

Pontiff has a full 4% drop off from Wolnir. This is the third largest in the game and the 2 above him are Vordt and Tree. These 2 are also very early bossfights, so they weed out people who aren't into it.While not all players struggle with him, most do. Stats come from steam achievements btw.

[fillername]

Unrelated, but the 3 topics above this are all asking for help with Dancer lol.

[Little Miss Terror]

Originally posted by fillername:

Unrelated, but the 3 topics above this are all asking for help with Dancer lol.

Lol
Not too surprised honestly.

[Bongo Bongo]

She isn't tough for me because I've been conditioned to seek a pattern when fighting which can really hurt me when learning a fight because I'm too busy watching the bosses combo and the arch that they attack from.

Who knew tanking midcore raids in an MMO would have some benefits in other games.

Anyway. I can pretty much fight her alone now with no problems.

[Gabito264]

I never actually got how to doge one of her second phase attacks... just ran away from it xD
but fr tho, she was one of my most tries requiered bosses with pontiff. ironic as then i first tried SoC, Champion Gundyr, Oceiros and it took me less tries with nameless

[EF_Neo1st]

And there we go . . . NG+, done everything first or second try . . . and Midir kicking my nuts into space. Only boss I cant figure how to kill properly.
(yes yes, pestilent stuff, magic, summon signs, etc etc . . . I`ve no stats for magic, dont use summon signs or help)

Midir I cant predict properly almost nothing, probably, after I take back to DS3, it will take me 5 hours trying at NG+ as it was the first time I made it at NG.

But, well, I klnow there are guys that do Midir first or second try . . I just cant.

Difficulty is always relative to the player, some dont have problem with Dancer, Nameless King, Pontiff, etc some will always have some problem with these bosses and some never had problems.

The problem with dancer is . . it is too early at the game, what make twinks and new players to ask for help with very low SL.

[Sabaithal]

Originally posted by Lord ☆Sp@ce☆ Pan:

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

The dancer is difficult for a lot of players, skilled or unskilled, mostly due to her...unusual timing in attack patterns and ridiculous ability to punish mistakes. She's still the most difficult boss I've fought (including the DLC bosses, they are kittens in comparison) just because her timing seems to make relying on muscle memory impossible (as the game has conditioned me thus far).

First person I've seen say she makes the dlc bosses look like kittens.

I don't memorize or get used to boss timings or moves, I play completely reactively, with little to no pattern based decision making. Fighting her felt no different to me than fighting any of the other bosses (besides the obvious differences in mechanics and strategies).

I envy you then. Fighting purely on reaction for me is virtually impossible. Too many variables. I just make up for it by adapting very quick when something gets me. I almost never die to any boss more than once. Except the dancer that is.

[Scheneighnay]

Early dancer is understandable, but late-game there's always a ♥♥♥♥-ton of signs down by the door. Same with pontiff.

Whenever I sunbro at the dancer, I usually notice 5 or 6 other phantoms in the area judging by who keeps getting summoned with me.

Though the last time I put a sign down by the dancer at low level, the host had 2 other phantoms, so that's probably easy too.

[VectorMane]

Originally posted by Mordecai:

1) low level twinks
2) its easier to go with a friend

Well now it's not because of low level twinks all the time or someone wanting a cheap win, sometimes you're just skilled, but get unlucky, we all have to see the YOU DIED screen eventually.

But, for the most cause, for me as an example, I'm level 250 now, back when i first started playing DS3, i had a friend pretty much walk me through the game to help learn how each boss works. When I took on the dancer, it was a brief fight as I was suffering being stuck in a corner, so my friend ended it quickly, which my friend was NG+7 SL 785 at the time.

When i went NG+ for the first time, and i reached the dancer, it took me several attempts, but I finally got 'er down solo, i was about to ask for help. When i first took her on at NG, i didn't really get much chance to practice rolling against her attacks or just being prepared in general, so I suffered from about 9 attempts on NG+ until I got lucky by spamming the dragonslayer greataxe lightning strike. I won with no estus left, about 100 HP remaining, and it all paid off.

From the beginning all the way up to the dancer, i had a flawless boss streak, then after the dancer, i started yet another flawless streak, up until the demon prince that is, gave me hell earlier today.

So, most of the time, it's under-experienced players, or people that are just that damn unlucky.

This is Dark Souls 3, you're bound to get an unlucky streak every now and then, regardless of skill, level, or NG. You have to prepare yourself (to die) for anything.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Umbreon of Ashes:

Originally posted by Mordecai:

1) low level twinks
2) its easier to go with a friend

Well now it's not because of low level twinks all the time or someone wanting a cheap win, sometimes you're just skilled, but get unlucky, we all have to see the YOU DIED screen eventually.

But, for the most cause, for me as an example, I'm level 250 now, back when i first started playing DS3, i had a friend pretty much walk me through the game to help learn how each boss works. When I took on the dancer, it was a brief fight as I was suffering being stuck in a corner, so my friend ended it quickly, which my friend was NG+7 SL 785 at the time.

When i went NG+ for the first time, and i reached the dancer, it took me several attempts, but I finally got 'er down solo, i was about to ask for help. When i first took her on at NG, i didn't really get much chance to practice rolling against her attacks or just being prepared in general, so I suffered from about 9 attempts on NG+ until I got lucky by spamming the dragonslayer greataxe lightning strike. I won with no estus left, about 100 HP remaining, and it all paid off.

From the beginning all the way up to the dancer, i had a flawless boss streak, then after the dancer, i started yet another flawless streak, up until the demon prince that is, gave me hell earlier today.

So, most of the time, it's under-experienced players, or people that are just that damn unlucky.

This is Dark Souls 3, you're bound to get an unlucky streak every now and then, regardless of skill, level, or NG. You have to prepare yourself (to die) for anything.

From what I could understand, you got through NG with a friend and did Dancer only at NG+ with Dragonslayer Greataxe.

Try with the dark infused axe you get from the mimic, at a new NG, at low SL (under lvl 20) and see how it goes ;)

Many new players (and mostly new to Souls games) that try Dancer early-on will suffer (but, really, give it a try at a new NG).

[robruckus65]

Saying a boss is easy with no difficulty and then describing how you died to it 4 times is kind of an oxymoron. An easy boss you can walk in and kill it one go without ever seeing its attacks at most 1 death and after seeing a few attacks killing it the second go. Dancer is like a medium difficulty boss with its weird flowy movements, long reaching attacks and high damage grab. At a low sl its difficulty increases dramatically since it can most likely one shot you with many of its attacks.

[Cobretti]

A portion of players don't want to spend excessive amounts of time learning a boss. As a newbie I haven't tried dancer but have spent many hours wiping to everything else (boss or otherwise) however I am from the golden age of MMORPGs where you spent 20-30 hours learning some raid bosses so each players past experiences shape their attitude to learning new game mechanics.

I imagine some game collectors / achievement hunters have little interest in the fun of the challenge

[Little Miss Terror]

Originally posted by Cobretti:

A portion of players don't want to spend excessive amounts of time learning a boss. As a newbie I haven't tried dancer but have spent many hours wiping to everything else (boss or otherwise) however I am from the golden age of MMORPGs where you spent 20-30 hours learning some raid bosses so each players past experiences shape their attitude to learning new game mechanics.

I imagine some game collectors / achievement hunters have little interest in the fun of the challenge

I like the challenge of doing it solo when I personally enjoy the boss. Sometimes I'll do it solo if I can at least tolerate the boss, but if the boss is boring or unfun I'll summon and I don't feel bad about it at all.