Did the lost kin in the pantheon of the knight get weaker?

[Zote]

Like, 3 days ago the lost kin had a toon of health, like it would take up to 4 minutes to kill him, but now that I tried again he gets stunned like 3 times faster and his health pool seems much lower. Did an update make him easier? If so thank god, the lost kin wasn't hard, just tedious.

[Aeternalis the Abyssal Alchemist]

Nope. He still has 1200 HP.

You must be using a better charm setup and/or are just better at the game now.

Boss staggers are mostly based on number of times you hit them(some exceptions to this rule are False Knight/Failed Champion and the Radiance, who are staggered based on damage, rather than number of hits).
Since Broken Vessel/Lost Kin doesn't require very many hits to stagger, Quickslash + Mark of Pride + Strength should take him down pretty easily.

[Zote]

Originally posted by Null the Abyssal Alchemist:

Nope. He still has 1200 HP.

You must be using a better charm setup and/or are just better at the game now.

Boss staggers are mostly based on number of times you hit them(some exceptions to this rule are False Knight/Failed Champion and the Radiance, who are staggered based on damage, rather than number of hits).
Since Broken Vessel/Lost Kin doesn't require very many hits to stagger, Quickslash + Mark of Pride + Strength should take him down pretty easily.

Didn't change my charm setup, didn't play for 3 days in a row so I surely wasn't as good as I was then.

[thorin.hannahs]

Sometimes time away from an activity allows you time to acclimate to it, probably one of the reasons taking breaks is so important in almost everything. Congratulations on becoming better!

[Songbird]

Bosses actually stagger MUCH faster if you hit them many times in rapid succession.

Lost Kin staggers in something like 20 hits normally, but he'll stagger in 6 (after the first stagger which may be 7?) if you don't go longer than about 2 seconds between hits. Using spells (Descending Dark when he's jumping on you or in the corner, Shade Soul when he's far away and not in the corner for double hits) makes it much easier to get to six hits consistently, but simply being aggressive with the nail can sometimes do it safely too. If you're counting hits, you can even know when you can safely swing at him during his grounded charge and interrupt him.

[thorin.hannahs]

So with multiple rapid hits can you increase the total number of staggers?

[DJDiceZ]

Probably? Either way it's a common "technique" used in speedrunning. And from having played a save with no upgrade/charms before, i can confirm that staggers aren't damage or health based, since i pretty much staggered the Soul tyrant with what felt like 50 times before getting to second form. Less damage = More staggers.

[thorin.hannahs]

That explains why PV staggers so much for.

[DJDiceZ]

Well, he got nerfed to have more staggers i believe.

[thorin.hannahs]

I am playing pre-beta

[Boksha]

Originally posted by thorin.hannahs:

Sometimes time away from an activity allows you time to acclimate to it, probably one of the reasons taking breaks is so important in almost everything. Congratulations on becoming better!

Single player games like HK are also very much (muscle) memory based, so you don't really forget how to play them. I beat pretty much every boss in the game (except for NKG which took 5 tries and The Radiance which took 2 tries) on my first try when replaying the game on my current run, after not touching the game for over 6 months.

In my experience, getting worse after a break really only applies to multiplayer games since the meta changes.

[DJDiceZ]

Originally posted by Boksha:

Originally posted by thorin.hannahs:

Sometimes time away from an activity allows you time to acclimate to it, probably one of the reasons taking breaks is so important in almost everything. Congratulations on becoming better!

Single player games like HK are also very much (muscle) memory based, so you don't really forget how to play them. I beat pretty much every boss in the game (except for NKG which took 5 tries and The Radiance which took 2 tries) on my first try when replaying the game on my current run, after not touching the game for over 6 months.

In my experience, getting worse after a break really only applies to multiplayer games since the meta changes.

Well, even then, your point about muscle memory still stands for MP games (i assume we are thinking competitive games like OW, PUBG, DotA, LoL, etc)

And "meta changes" doesn't really matter as much unless you're in the highest tiers of players, above diamond and such imo.

You can lose your touch even in HK, but regaining the level of skill you had is just a loooot faster

[Boksha]

Well, I say meta, but it's really just how people play, how many risks they take, etc. I find leaving a multiplayer game (taking Rocket League as an example here; I'm not high ranked either, in particular I'm not even Diamond in Solo3 and duel) for a few weeks really makes you play a lot worse against live opponents, while you can still be doing fine (or even better than before you stopped) in offline practice modes.

I think we all agree you don't lose skill quickly in HK or at least regain it very quickly when you get back into it.

[Zote]

Originally posted by Boksha:

Well, I say meta, but it's really just how people play, how many risks they take, etc. I find leaving a multiplayer game (taking Rocket League as an example here; I'm not high ranked either, in particular I'm not even Diamond in Solo3 and duel) for a few weeks really makes you play a lot worse against live opponents, while you can still be doing fine (or even better than before you stopped) in offline practice modes.

I think we all agree you don't lose skill quickly in HK or at least regain it very quickly when you get back into it.

Yea that's not how I learn to play games. I don't use muscle memory training as much as I just use my guitar hero expert reaction time + usually viewing a boss's attacks on youtube before I tackle him. Then when I get in a rhythm I can usually beat him with no prior training, which makes it way harder and also way more adrenaline-fueled than just grinding til you get good at a boss, which is more fun for me

[thorin.hannahs]

Originally posted by The Hollow Knight:

Yea that's not how I learn to play games. I don't use muscle memory training as much as I just use my guitar hero expert reaction time + usually viewing a boss's attacks on youtube before I tackle him. Then when I get in a rhythm I can usually beat him with no prior training, which makes it way harder and also way more adrenaline-fueled than just grinding til you get good at a boss, which is more fun for me

That combination of previewing bosses and getting the rhythm sounds like training to me, muscle oriented or not. Whether that rhythm is in your first attempt or not is you developing an understanding of what is going on muscle wise. So is it safe to say you have not fought any bosses that deal two masks of damage?

[Zote]

Originally posted by thorin.hannahs:

Originally posted by The Hollow Knight:

Yea that's not how I learn to play games. I don't use muscle memory training as much as I just use my guitar hero expert reaction time + usually viewing a boss's attacks on youtube before I tackle him. Then when I get in a rhythm I can usually beat him with no prior training, which makes it way harder and also way more adrenaline-fueled than just grinding til you get good at a boss, which is more fun for me

That combination of previewing bosses and getting the rhythm sounds like training to me, muscle oriented or not. Whether that rhythm is in your first attempt or not is you developing an understanding of what is going on muscle wise. So is it safe to say you have not fought any bosses that deal two masks of damage?

Uhh of course I have? I don't even think it's possible to make it to godhome without fighting atleast a few bosses that deal 2 shell damage, and I did make it to the pantheon.

And of course it's training, but its reaction-based training instead of simply using muscle memory which makes it heaps harder and heaps more rewarding. Thats how I beat dark souls 3 with relatively few deaths