touching all enemies doing dmg is lazy game design

[Jazz the Goose]

if you cant balance your game around normal attacks, its not a good game. completely ruins some pointfull tactics

[Bono my tyres are gone]

physical contact is the only way for the majoroty of enemies to damage the Knight... have you ever played any metroidvania?

[Jazz the Goose]

Originally posted by CabbageStabber:

Originally posted by MatteDefra:

physical contact is the only way for the majoroty of enemies to damage the Knight... have you ever played any metroidvania?

majority I agree with, but other ones like the mantis charge a sword attack. so them doing dmg just doesnt make sense. It would be nicer if passing through enemies was disabled but they dont do dmg instead.

[lentinant]

Originally posted by CabbageStabber:

if you cant balance your game around normal attacks, its not a good game. completely ruins some pointfull tactics

By "Pointfull tactcs" you mean "cheesing"? It basically negates all danger of enemy attacks, as before attack, you can freely walk through enemy, or even just stand in body of large enemy (imagine that when False Knight does his rage mash attack, instead of standing aside and evading falling stones, you can freely stand inside his sprite, and keep attacking him). With very few exceptions, this will make almost all enemies in the game, including bosses, completely harmless.

Damage on contact is not bad game design, it is pretty much established in this kind of games.

[Boksha]

If you're going to call contact damage bad game design, do so because it's very frustrating to take damage from a boss jumping into you backwards, or flying upwards when you stagger them from above, or basically anything where it's clear there was no intent from the enemy to damage you that way.

Saying it's bad game design because it means certain 'pointfull' tactics don't work just shows you don't understand what 'tactics' means, and 'pointfull' isn't even a word. You know beforehand that touching enemies damages you, so just don't do it. That doesn't 'ruin' any tactics, since any tactic that relies on touching enemies without taking damage wasn't viable in the first place.

[Watermelons]

Originally posted by lentinant:

Originally posted by CabbageStabber:

if you cant balance your game around normal attacks, its not a good game. completely ruins some pointfull tactics

(imagine that when False Knight does his rage mash attack, instead of standing aside and evading falling stones, you can freely stand inside his sprite, and keep attacking him).
Damage on contact is not bad game design, it is pretty much established in this kind of games.

What a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ exaggeration, mentioning the False Knight as your example like that. It makes sense for many enemies to damage when touching especially when that is purely their design, but some absolutely not. Hornet is one that comes to mind. It makes no sense that her walking into you hurts you.

I don't fully agree with OP because I understand how these games are and the common enemy archytypes, but there are some egregious examples that make no sense.
And then at the same time, your terribly simplified example of the False Knight makes no damn sense, it's just making a ridiculous argument because you had nothing better. "Hurr durr I guess you just shouldn't be hurt at all when inside an enemy entity". Reductio ad absurdum, yadda yadda.

[Jdr_]

It's a game mechanic since Super Mario or before, lol.

[L4z3r]

Git Gud

[fillername]

TIL hammer bros are bad game design. So is every megaman boss and castlevania boss.

[lentinant]

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

Originally posted by lentinant:

(imagine that when False Knight does his rage mash attack, instead of standing aside and evading falling stones, you can freely stand inside his sprite, and keep attacking him).
Damage on contact is not bad game design, it is pretty much established in this kind of games.

What a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ exaggeration, mentioning the False Knight as your example like that. It makes sense for many enemies to damage when touching especially when that is purely their design, but some absolutely not. Hornet is one that comes to mind. It makes no sense that her walking into you hurts you.

I don't fully agree with OP because I understand how these games are and the common enemy archytypes, but there are some egregious examples that make no sense.
And then at the same time, your terribly simplified example of the False Knight makes no damn sense, it's just making a ridiculous argument because you had nothing better. "Hurr durr I guess you just shouldn't be hurt at all when inside an enemy entity". Reductio ad absurdum, yadda yadda.

Wow, that got someone's feelings, apparently.

Again, giving possibility to collide with enemy freely either gives a lot of opportunities to cheese, or will just bring a frustration to players. E.g. Hornet you've mentioned out there has solid one second of wind-up before attack. Taking into account, that you are usually close to boss due to melee combat, it will be much easier just to walk towards her the moment she telegraphs her attack, instead of evading it by jumping over.

If it makes sense, that enemy damages player only on attack, then would it make sense only for weapon part of sprite to cause damage? How then player understand, what is supposed to be weapon of enemy? Isn't it harder to track particular part of sprite instead of whole sprite? If on certain times touching enemy would damage player, and on certain times - not, how can player understand would enemy damage them or not? If player sprite will collide with small enemy sprite, wouldn't there be situations, when player just can't see enemy attack animation? What about enemies that use projectiles? Should they be able to shoot inside themselves?

You see, there is a lot of things for player to get confused about with such approach for damage. It is much more consistent, and less confusing to have damage on contact in 2D game like this. If this is not good game design, then I don't what is.

[Watermelons]

Originally posted by lentinant:

Originally posted by Something Something Watermelons:

What a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ exaggeration, mentioning the False Knight as your example like that. It makes sense for many enemies to damage when touching especially when that is purely their design, but some absolutely not. Hornet is one that comes to mind. It makes no sense that her walking into you hurts you.

I don't fully agree with OP because I understand how these games are and the common enemy archytypes, but there are some egregious examples that make no sense.
And then at the same time, your terribly simplified example of the False Knight makes no damn sense, it's just making a ridiculous argument because you had nothing better. "Hurr durr I guess you just shouldn't be hurt at all when inside an enemy entity". Reductio ad absurdum, yadda yadda.

Wow, that got someone's feelings, apparently.

Me calling someone out on being a bit of a dumbass for making a dumbass example isn't 'getting someone's feelings'. Neither is me typing what may be a lot of words to you, I'm sorry if that's the case.

blah

You're still missing the point I made overall. You keep thinking the argument made was "enemies shouldn't damage you at all when they touch you", when it was more like "they should damage on touch when it makes even some sense". When she touches you as she jumps through the air or dashes around, that makes sense. When she touches you by doing her dive attack, missing and landing near you into a corner, then calmly tries to walk away from said corner, that makes no sense.
By comparison, even if extreme, the Radiance/Absolute Radiance doesn't hurt you at all from contact, because it doesn't make sense, and because it has enough attacks as is.

I'm pretty good at this game and I'm not trying to make complaints because it's too hard, and I certainly don't need the likes of you trying to explain to me how the design of the game goes.
Maybe try making your arguments not all questions, it just seems very silly.

[LardMaker]

Its the best method on anti cheesing the enemy boss without adding some kind of force field or aura of damage around the boss.

[Molvanîa!]

nice b8 m8, I rate 8/8

[Rochops]

get the dash upgrade
skip every area by dash through enemies
10/10 game design

[L4z3r]

Originally posted by Posle Poludnya:

nice b8 m8, I rate 8/8

its r8 8/8

[paladin181]

Originally posted by Posle Poludnya:

nice b8 m8, I rate 8/8

gr8 b8 m8, I r8 8/8