Building in the Colony is Pointless

[Profugo Barbatus]

I've been kind of thinking and stewing over this for a while, both way back in 2019 playing the old versions, and now with the new version and grinding my way up. Specifically, why construction is so worthless in the game loop.

Think about it, there's more or less three things that manage the game. You place blocks/job blocks, job blocks craft or gather resources, and resources are used to defend against the night and advance the selection of job blocks and resources you have access to.

The running of job blocks, resource gathering, and night defence are more or less entirely out of your hands. You set them up, and off they go. You can technically grab a weapon and join in the defence, but its usually a net negative even with your damage bonus, since unlike the AI guards you'll miss shots - Any contribution you provide will be at a greater resource expense, and is generally only useful when you badly misjudge a threat increase.

So that really leaves building in the players interest. The problem is, building is incredibly shallow and unrewarding in a mechanical sense. There is no functional difference between building an apartment tower and laying out a line of beds on the grass, but the former will take significantly longer to set up, while the game rewards the latter as it actually increases your productivity immediately. Such a structure is often a minor malus, as constructions increase travel time for waking colonists, costing daytime work output. The only situation that building is genuinely rewarded in is gliders, which aren't unlocked until mid game or so, but one structure worth building with one defining metric of value - height, is not really enough to carry the players engagement.

Defences similarly don't benefit from any interesting construction - There's no functional difference between building a wall, and building a 2 block trench, and if you want to build anything that isn't a hedge wall, you'll be waiting for a significant time for your colonists to produce blocks. Since you need to secure a large area to protect those colonists if you intend to scale up production to get enough parts for a wall, your either going to have to limit your footprint, and production by extent, or dig the trench and embrace the cheese. Traps and maze lines promote some mild creativity, but the optimal and cheapest setup is any set of blocks making a single file zig zag through the air. You can build more interesting options, but you need defences now, not later, and interesting options require more resources for no actual benefit.

Job sites are again uninteresting to develop - Once more, the optimal build is both the fastest to set up and the least interesting, with a job block, a colonist, and a crate behind the colonist, and a tool box and grocer every few of these for irregular access. Doing something interesting like building a guild hall, or a factory, or a mill, is again actively discouraged, requiring you to already have significant free resources before you can invest them in building something of interest.

What this all seems to lead to is an active discouragement of building anything of note early on. You are encouraged to focus on functional productions and defence, and maybe once your deeper into the tech tree and population counter, then you can go and add a wall around that trench for looks - but its just for looks.

It leads to the colony feeling very sterile and uninteresting, with visually boring setups like the crafting array feeling necessary well before you have the reasonable ability to pretty them up. These things aren't fun to build, there's nothing interesting to be done while building them, and building something cooler is often counter productive.

So the player ends up idling, standing around because there's very little worth doing for them a lot of the time, waiting for some guys to make a thing. The bed brick grows as production grows, but I don't care about it. And the colonists don't either, seemingly content to live in a box lined up with 150 other dudes. Late game, you've got the resources to change this and we've seen some beautiful builds, but those builds very much are for the sake of building - the game offers no reason to do so.

I'm not expecting any sort of Rimworld level room statistics, but it feels really weird to have this building system while every mechanic at best ignores, if not actively discourages building anything. Or really, the fact that for most of the game loop, the player is a passive observer. I can't craft, my resource gathering effectiveness is limited, my combat contributions are minimal, my building skills are underutilised, and explorations primary focus is finding things for the other characters in the world to work with, not me. If the players doing it right, they're doing nothing at all.

[Darth Porgus]

Entirely agreed. It does feel weird to have a building system, but not build on it. The game allows you to build, but there is no system that necissarily needs building.

Also even if you build, you don't have a lot of options. The only options you have are basicly squares. Even in Minecraft you have more options. Not only a lot more blocks, but you get a lot more shapes. For example fences and walls are a great way to add detail in Minecraft. In colony survival you do have "stairs" , but they are pretty much just 1 colour with no texture and you can not place them upside down as a decoration as you can in Minecraft.
So decorative wise you are really limited. Eventho the textures and lighting system of Colony Survival are much better than in regular Minecraft, Minecraft Builds still look better and way more detailed than what you see in Colony Survival.

Some way to fix this could be to actually add larger job stations like a grindmill that is actually larger and could be powered by a turbine. But then that would require more effort than just placing down more grindmills and using your Robot Colonists to do the work while they endlessly stare into existance.
And yes you are right. The player does often just wait on things to get done. I like to build, but I feel like it is not in any way rewarding and I have so little freedom with details, like I can not place workstations or stairs the way I want to add detail.



To sum it up,
If you have a building system, build upon it

[Parallel Black]

This is probably an issue that transporters would have helped mitigate. If resources had to be physically transferred between workstations rather than being dumped into the colony's magical infinite inventory, then that could have encouraged players to separate their colonists by job type, giving them a better excuse to build themed buildings around those clusters.

[Pipliznl]

Thank you for the well thought out and detailed response! I do agree that this is an issue. The problem is - how do we fix it? We tried to improve on it with the traps + harvesters&sources features. We could require more complexity (beekeepers must have flower fields nearby, things like that), but that would still lead to repetitive patterns in the end - but now they are more annoying to set up.

Specific solutions are very welcome :D

[ZakTheFallen]

I also thought about ways to guide the player into building actual structures. For example, what if citizens got some kind of bonus for sleeping in an enclosed structure? Maybe there are different tiers of beds, and other things to furnish a bedroom, and how good their room is has an impact on how happy the villagers are. Some games encourage this by certain objects having some kind of decoration value. and having that around them makes the villagers happier or more productive.

Catering to their wishes would be optional, but a big struggle in the game is producing enough items to keep up with demand. If improving the villagers living space could lead to better production (production speed, movement speed, ect...), then that gives the player another option besides placing down more work stations. That gives the player something to do. Villagers could even have higher requirements like their own personal bedroom, or other rooms with specific objects in them. I think that improving the lives of the villagers (to make them work harder/faster) will at least give the player reasons to build.

As for how the game would define an enclosed room, add doors to the game. They can even be visual only, meaning that the block isn't solid, and anything can pass through it. But it does give a block that completes a room and looks more visually appealing than every room having empty doorways. The are mods that do that, so it doesn't break the monsters pathfinding in any way.

[Profugo Barbatus]

Originally posted by Pipliznl:

Thank you for the well thought out and detailed response! I do agree that this is an issue. The problem is - how do we fix it? We tried to improve on it with the traps + harvesters&sources features. We could require more complexity (beekeepers must have flower fields nearby, things like that), but that would still lead to repetitive patterns in the end - but now they are more annoying to set up.

Specific solutions are very welcome :D

I think there's multiple, possibly complimentary ways of approaching it. I will leave traps/defence construction out of this, as while I think it does need improvement, a lot of it would come from the monsters - When all you can do is walk at a higher speed and soak more damage, your options for interacting with player creations are extremely limited. I'll think on this more as the initial ideas that come to mind may be a bit too restrictive or destructive to the existing mechanics to be easily prototyped. Building on the other hand doesn't have the same issue.

Source blocks and harvesters I think are a good option for early complexity, and is a step in the right direction. You mention repetitive patterns, and I do want to highlight the goal isn't specifically to avoid that - building in patterns with optimisations is not specifically bad, as long as your not being punished too harshly for deviation. Source blocks require the player to break the crate and block line pattern and at the very least, introduce a new pattern of a job block surrounded by some sources.

For other job blocks, I would look at either introducing blocks in the style of source blocks that are either necessary, or provide a bonus, and possibly structural requirements as the tech progresses. Early game when the player is scarce on resources and manpower, tossing a copper anvil on a stump and calling it a day is fine and should be encouraged, since we want the player to grow their population and not immediately feel gated. But when you move onto a more advanced metal smithing jobblock, it could require that its placed without a view of the sky. It could have a complimentary or mandatory source block in the form of a quenching barrel - If complimentary, it could be as simple as a production speed boost, or even a requirement for more complex recipes. By blending a combination of source blocks, structural requirements, and bonus options, you lead the player towards certain constructions - By the late game, the fully formed steel bloomery may require itself to be surrounded by stone type blocks, fully enclosed with a minimum size, have at least one blower block but provide bonuses up to three that touch the jobblock, and have optional source blocks in the form of coke bins that need to be in the same room but a minimum distance away from the bloomer to not catch fire (Placement requirement, not actually letting the player burn the place down).

There will always be an optimal way to build these if the player sits down and maps it out, it'll end up in youtube videos and community guides - But the point is the player is now engaging with constructions, at first for bonuses, then for requirements, and by the end they're building with a level of complexity to match their progression in the tech tree. Trying to make a nice structure out of it is likely to be a natural side effect at that point, and a lot of players will mix optimal with artistic, or be willing to sacrifice some production for looks even - Games like Factorio and some of the more heavily modded minecraft worlds out there will attest to that.

For the beds problem, I would probably add the same extra blocks and construction/coverage requirements, but connect it to the job blocks they work. At the beginning, the field of beds should be ok, so that you can get your population starting up. the peasant berry farmer and copper miners standards should be zero. Going up from there, I'd probably identify concepts of housing tiers - Tier 0 being outside/anything, Tier 1 being enclosed with a lot of other beds, as a barracks, Tier 2 being enclosed with 2 beds, roommates, Tier 3 being enclosed lone bed, your own room, etc. If needed, higher tiers could involve additional expected blocks in the enclosed space - A closet, a desk, etc. And these tiers should be associated to higher level jobs - Your fletchers will expect a roof over their head, your jeweller expects a private room, etc. They could either be hard caps, fletcher refuses to work without, or maluses for failing to meet it, like lower production speed. Having better accomodations than expected could provide a bonus. When going to sleep, just have the higher expectations make their claims first, so the peasants don't steal all the condos :P

So the idea here is that it would encourage the player to progress through various levels of housing, and also position that housing relative to the jobs its trying to serve. Travel time is a concern to and from work, so setting up a barracks right near the colony entrance for the farmers out the gate is good, while you might have an apartment tower off near where your smithing is set up for all those guys to live in the standards they expect. Again, players will optimize, but as long as the requirements aren't down to exact positioning levels, people can experiment and find something they like.

Combine these two systems together, and you have the player thinking of construction both in terms of the jobs they are placing, and the people who will work them. If they are scaling up fast enough, they'll also be thinking more about vertical design, and safe zone expanding upgrades will become much more valuable to those players. The time involvement in building these sites gives you much more to do while the colony is ticking away, and should increase player investment in their actual settlement and save.

Furthermore, a complimentary bonuses system may encourage even more creativity - You may be able to compensate for building prettier but less optimal job sites by adding bonus blocks, or making sure the workers have access to even nicer houses. And the minmaxer will be able to find a way to squeeze out 125% production by shoving things together into a horrific nightmare of industrialised skyless boxes, which is its own kind of fun, like Rimworlds booming human leather industry.

[halfbaked2001]

Originally posted by Pipliznl:

Thank you for the well thought out and detailed response! I do agree that this is an issue. The problem is - how do we fix it? We tried to improve on it with the traps + harvesters&sources features. We could require more complexity (beekeepers must have flower fields nearby, things like that), but that would still lead to repetitive patterns in the end - but now they are more annoying to set up.

Specific solutions are very welcome :D

How about the job block have specific room requirements example floors made with flooring of a certain resource, same with walls and a roof that is also made with certain materials (need roof blocks though. ) made with certain resources which if all requirements met offers a bonus to the workers production don't forget to add smoke stacks to let the pollution out of the industrial buildings, As of right now I just build a wall make room that are 4 long x 3 wide put bed , workstation, storage in each room I make off the wall then once rooms are all along the wall I start building straight up and usually use whats left inside the wall of the initial border before any expansion to usually grow berry plants so workers somewhat protected and not working outside the wall.

[Parallel Black]

Originally posted by Profugo Barbatus:

I think there's multiple, possibly complimentary ways of approaching it.

All of this is fantastic! The idea of connecting job type to room quality sounds like the perfect way to solve this whole issue! Personally, I think the complimentary approach is probably the better way, because imagine having to spend hours building dozens and hundreds of rooms just so you can make progress. I love the idea of feeling motivated to give every colonist their own room, but the thought of that being mandatory would probably sap my enthusiasm.

[Morkath]

Originally posted by Pipliznl:

Thank you for the well thought out and detailed response! I do agree that this is an issue. The problem is - how do we fix it? We tried to improve on it with the traps + harvesters&sources features. We could require more complexity (beekeepers must have flower fields nearby, things like that), but that would still lead to repetitive patterns in the end - but now they are more annoying to set up.

Specific solutions are very welcome :D

Have stuff like beds give the bed owner a productivity increase (to lower crafting time, shoot faster, whatever), if it is in a room of at least X size. Then give the different block types a quality that modifies bonus. So like a stone house gives a better bonus than a mud house.

It's something that can be ignored if you want, but if you spend the time it gives you a bonus.

You could also tie a "income" to the npcs based on the quality of their home/work location, as well, and use it for them to buy stuff from other NPCs.

[Baka-gaijin]

One possible short-term solution would be to remove the link between job productivity and standing at the block. Maybe have the production tick as long as it's working hours. This would at least remove the heavy incentive to plop everything down as close to each other as possible.

[Leroy_Jenkins]

A change to the banner safe zone could make a huge improvement to gameplay. The safe zone is too small and too square, meaning that space is a premium and colonies always end up being built tall, dense and blocky. I usually only get two nice buildings up before running out of space. If you add safe zone extenders, that would allow colonies to wrap around the natural environment and have space to breathe. It's quite immersion-breaking looking at a giant dense square in the middle of a vast open wilderness

[Profugo Barbatus]

Originally posted by Leroy_Jenkins:

A change to the banner safe zone could make a huge improvement to gameplay. The safe zone is too small and too square, meaning that space is a premium and colonies always end up being built tall, dense and blocky. I usually only get two nice buildings up before running out of space. If you add safe zone extenders, that would allow colonies to wrap around the natural environment and have space to breathe. It's quite immersion-breaking looking at a giant dense square in the middle of a vast open wilderness

That is already available via research, you just need to invest more heavily in trade goods and defence to offset the threat from the extra coffers you'll need if you want to rush it.

[Catsim]

I think a simple solution would be to make it so well built buildings add a bonus to productivity that more than makes up for the inefficiency compared to making sweatshop barracks. Well built bedrooms should make colonists move much faster to their jobs and give a bonus to work speed, and well built workshops with proper spacing of work tables would add their own bonuses to work speed.

For bedrooms, single-person rooms would be too costly for space so how about 3x3 with three beds and a 2x1 door would be the smallest bedroom possible for the bonus, giving extra bonus if you make the room bigger and space the beds out with at least one square between them.

Programming wise maybe make it so each object searches a certain area around it for similar objects and the search "beam" is blocked by 2 block high walls. If it finds less than a certain amount of the same object it adds a speed modifier. If the object is placed upon planks or bricks then more is added to the speed bonus. If a bed finds a workshop within a certain radius then it goes against the bonus. But i don't think a penalty should ever be applied. Just let grass beds be the baseline.

[Ray]

Good points here on building value. A couple more ideas/thoughts on the mob/swarm event each evening. Perhaps as your threat builds the mobs get more tricky with how they can breach (eg, attack walls, climb over walls) and then the height or composition of the walls would be a factor in defensibility. Certain wall defenses may be unclimbable or SLOW climbable or have different levels of durability if attacked to delay the breach. Also having different floor tiles have speed bonuses (or debuffs in external squares) would add some texture to the seige/swarm mechanic and give a reason to build defenses outside of simple trenches and zig zags.

[Enyaron]

Originally posted by Pipliznl:

Thank you for the well thought out and detailed response! I do agree that this is an issue. The problem is - how do we fix it? We tried to improve on it with the traps + harvesters&sources features. We could require more complexity (beekeepers must have flower fields nearby, things like that), but that would still lead to repetitive patterns in the end - but now they are more annoying to set up.

Specific solutions are very welcome :D

Simply have buildings off set the Threat value and then add in rooms that add bonus's too the colony. I.E. Kitchen(Faster food making, Buffs night's watch etc). This would require a rework of Threat more than likely just how much each research add's threat and then add monsters that destroy blocks too remove said rooms and bump up the threat level. This means if you incorrectly handle the threat level you get set back and have to rebuild a room or two in the day time giving you something to do other than wait around. Worse case they stone age you but this is the same as basically losing your all villagers anyways but it gives the player something to do.

Additionally give outposts the ability migrate too and from other outposts/main colony, if they fall make it send the horde of zombies too the next nearest settlement mixed into the next nights wave(Maybe assign shirt colors too them on planting the flag so you know which?). This means you need to check on your outposts frequently rather than just building a trench and having it pop up "All Colonists in X were killed" and then just running over and repopulating it in under a minuet and then adjusting how many night guards you have it also gives a good use for the para-glider and supports the idea that your Biggest Colony should be somewhere in the middle so you can check on them in the middle of the night or build a bridge too them for quick travel before getting those unlocks.

[Archmage Kaylin]

On the note of Buildings I had an idea that may also provide a solution to another problem I saw on the forums. Currently you section off areas for jobs such as berry/wheat farmers, foresters and the like. If you expanded upon that system and added in Zoning for various buildings ie: guard towers, general barracks, bakery; you could have any buildings/furniture/ and rooms give bonuses to the colonists that match the job and make the people under those jobs seek out the beds in those specific buildings. (I remembered reading a post about someone wanting beds to be synced up with job.)