Fatigue: Is this stat too important?

[Sonic Boomer]

I'm currently at 111 hours into the game, and while that doesn't make me an expert on it, I still can draw some early observations based on my experience with BB so far.

One observation that I think is the most obvious is how important fatigue is. Namely, it's probably the 2nd most important stat after melee or ranged attack depending on the character you build.

You want an archer that keeps shooting? You need fatigue. Recover perk even.

You want a melee bro that can take a beating and still fight back? Fatigue is needed.

You want heavy armor? You need fatigue and brawny.

Having low fatigue forces your bro to be in the nimble category, which is not good late game material as discussed in other threads. It makes retired soldiers and swordmasters not super interesting because they can't handle most of the medium/heavy armor, and it gets worse after the "old" trait is gained. If you can get one in the early game where 100-110 points of armor is enough then great, but later than that.....

There's a reason so many people like wildmen.

Resolve is skippable, initiative is downright useless because of, you guessed it, fatigue. Health is useful to a degree, but can be skipped in most level ups unless you can bad rolls in everything else.

Fatigue on the other hand is a must take on almost every level up.

I can't say I have a solution for this, but I think too many mechanics are related to fatigue.

Perhaps if your character could still swing but at 50% reduced damage when exhausted, it could mean you could invest less in fatigue? You could still shield wall but at 50% reduced effectiveness? Although the game would probably become too easy at this point....

Should initiative still be tied to fatigue? Can it be tied to morale instead?

Anyway, that's food for thought..... I wouldn't mind having the opinions of other experienced players.

[CHOO CHOO]

IMHO that's just realism. Fighting is tiring.

[Abel]

You forget that some weapons require little Fatigue. Two-handed weapons single target attacks are extremely efficient. You don't need recruits with high Fatigue to use them.

But yes, Fatigue is definitely quite important, I agree. And there is a hierarchy for Attributes. I wouldn't mind a buff to Initiative but balance is a tricky thing...

[Caledor]

Originally posted by Sybreed:

Resolve is skippable

Many are thinking this. They cry when they fight against hexes :-)

I think wildmen should have less fatigue. It makes no sense. They don't were armor in the wildness and can weare the heaviest armor.

[turtle225]

High fatigue is strong of course but there are many ways to build characters with lower fatigue values. I think the system is fine.

I can live with a character having low fatigue, I'll build around it. But a character with low accuracy is useless to me (unless they are a Taunt tank).

[suejak]

A lot of this post is wrong. Fatigue is definitely important, but nimble is not bad late game, initiative is not useless, resolve is not "skippable", etc.

A lowish-fatigue bro can still have a bright future with, e.g., high initiative, high health, and/or high melee defense.

[msunavygrad]

Originally posted by Caledor:

Originally posted by Sybreed:

Resolve is skippable

Many are thinking this. They cry when they fight against hexes :-)

Another reason why I love this game, choices are availble at all levels of play - but one must be willing to live with the consequences. This is another reason that the perk system is just grand, there are no perfect builds or play styles. Otherwise folks wouldn't be arguing both for and against Recover and Adrenaline as never pick or must haves!

[Thirty-O-Six]

Originally posted by Sybreed:

I'm currently at 111 hours into the game, and while that doesn't make me an expert on it, I still can draw some early observations based on my experience with BB so far.

One observation that I think is the most obvious is how important fatigue is. Namely, it's probably the 2nd most important stat after melee or ranged attack depending on the character you build.

You want an archer that keeps shooting? You need fatigue. Recover perk even.

You want a melee bro that can take a beating and still fight back? Fatigue is needed.

You want heavy armor? You need fatigue and brawny.

Having low fatigue forces your bro to be in the nimble category, which is not good late game material as discussed in other threads. It makes retired soldiers and swordmasters not super interesting because they can't handle most of the medium/heavy armor, and it gets worse after the "old" trait is gained. If you can get one in the early game where 100-110 points of armor is enough then great, but later than that.....

There's a reason so many people like wildmen.

Resolve is skippable, initiative is downright useless because of, you guessed it, fatigue. Health is useful to a degree, but can be skipped in most level ups unless you can bad rolls in everything else.

Fatigue on the other hand is a must take on almost every level up.

I can't say I have a solution for this, but I think too many mechanics are related to fatigue.

Perhaps if your character could still swing but at 50% reduced damage when exhausted, it could mean you could invest less in fatigue? You could still shield wall but at 50% reduced effectiveness? Although the game would probably become too easy at this point....

Should initiative still be tied to fatigue? Can it be tied to morale instead?

Anyway, that's food for thought..... I wouldn't mind having the opinions of other experienced players.

Resolve is important enough not to skip. I like the idea of possible reducing the amount fatigue punishes initiative. Perhaps the parellel could be lowered by 25%, to a maximum reduction of say...75%. This would give dodge and initiative more value late game rather than wasted perk and leveling.

[McGrits]

With the strengthening of the polearm perk, you can make lower fatigue bros very viable late game. Standard attacks and lack of shield and maybe a decent named haulberk armor, yo ucan make retired soldiers and other low fatigue characters work well.

1h swords are low fatigue weapons and are good for low background character with both low fatigue and low melee attack.

[timmonsisold66]

Grab a 25lb sword and swing it for 10 minutes straight and tell me how you feel. Game follows that logic I believe.

[Adam]

I'm just annoyed that they call it "fatigue" rather than "endurance". Obviously it's not good to have more fatigue! :-P

[cloning_souls]

everybody going on about fatigue realism in battle brothers when they use formations full of great swords all in a line

anybody thats held a sword of this size knows it cant be used in a tight formation as youd just wreck your allies eveytime you tried to use it and wouldnt be able to use it at all once the enemy got up close

in a real world battle using a great sword in a formation like this will get you killed fast

[Admiral Obvious]

Originally posted by cloning_souls:

everybody going on about fatigue realism in battle brothers when they use formations full of great swords all in a line

anybody thats held a sword of this size knows it cant be used in a tight formation as youd just wreck your allies eveytime you tried to use it and wouldnt be able to use it at all once the enemy got up close

in a real world battle using a great sword in a formation like this will get you killed fast

*Insert "but muh halfswording" post here*

I'd have to agree though. Some of the "moves" you can perform are total nonsense too. I don't care how long of a sword you have, you aren't going to make a straight cut through TWO men wearing plate armor in one swing.

[Vertibird]

What is more amazing is you can cut through two Unholds with a two handed sword

[Chat Is Muted, Sorry]

Behold the power of frontline, battleforged retired soldiers (he uses two as greataxe specialists, they may be overleveled in the first video, but that doesn't apply to the second video)

Very Late game:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleBrothers/comments/92vzha/5_orc_cities_in_1_day/

Slightly Late game:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleBrothers/comments/9326jg/orc_city_vs_hunting_bows_day_170/

(Per the Devs, retired soldiers do not get old, only swordmasters do)

Between nimble, improved polearms and 2 handed maces, seems like the DLC already introduced some more options to use low fatigue characters, but even before the DLC, it's interesting that someone found value in the stat profile of the retired soldier, for challenging late game content.

[Caledor]

Originally posted by cloning_souls:

everybody going on about fatigue realism in battle brothers when they use formations full of great swords all in a line

anybody thats held a sword of this size knows it cant be used in a tight formation as youd just wreck your allies eveytime you tried to use it and wouldnt be able to use it at all once the enemy got up close

in a real world battle using a great sword in a formation like this will get you killed fast

I agree. Greatswords are the worst weapon in this game. It makes no sense. And why can they attack two enemys in a row? I don't use them in my games. The game is much better and more balanced without greatswords.