Diminishing Returns on Attributes

[grail666]

So I'm new to the game and I'm trying to learn about it as best I can. I've read on the wiki that after a certain point pumping more points into an attribute isn't worth it because of diminishing returns. So my question - that I can't seem to find an answer to - is at what value to I stop putting points into an attribute before they just go to waste?

[feeWAIVER]

I don't know anything about diminishing returns.
After level 11, you can only roll 1's in attribute points, creating a soft level cap.

[grail666]

Originally posted by feeWAIVER:

I don't know anything about diminishing returns.
After level 11, you can only roll 1's in attribute points, creating a soft level cap.

https://battlebrothers.fandom.com/wiki/Combat_Mechanics

Under the To Hit Chance section.

[toastmaster2k]

I was watching Filthy on youboob the other day and listened to him mention this breifly. He specifically said after 60pts, melee defense had diminishing returns, I believe. But that's all he said on the subject. Would like to know more, myself..

[suejak]

What we've always been told is 1 mdef is worth 0.5 mdef after the 50 mdef mark.

The wiki says 45 and Filthy says 60. I don't know who's right, but we always said 50.

Support for the 45 claim: https://steamcommunity.com/app/365360/discussions/0/2906376154317487401/

[Abel]

The number was changed. It used to be 45, it is now 50.
The combat mechanics article isn't updated on that part.
Check https://battlebrothers.fandom.com/wiki/Hit_Chance#Defense_diminishing_returns.
Only Defense has DR, as far as I'm aware.

[grail666]

Originally posted by Abel:

The number was changed. It used to be 45, it is now 50.
The combat mechanics article isn't updated on that part.
Check https://battlebrothers.fandom.com/wiki/Hit_Chance#Defense_diminishing_returns.
Only Defense has DR, as far as I'm aware.

Thank you. In your opinion, is there any point in levelling the defence stats after 50? Would it be better to invest those point in other stats instead?

[turtle225]

Depends on what your other stats are and where your priorities lie.

You can't really have too much defense though. Chosen have 75 skill. So with 50 defense and no surround bonuses he's got 25% hit on you. If you have 60 defense he's got a 20% hit on you.

Let's say he kills you in 3 hits. With a 25% hit chance he is expected to take 12 swings to kill. With a 20% hit chance he is expected to take 15 swings to kill you.

Point is that every % of extra defense becomes relatively quite strong when you already have high defense.

[Abel]

It's always useful to invest in Defense, because even though each point over 50 has less effect on hit chance, decreasing hit chances at higher levels is more valuable. So all in all, the system is well balanced.

[grail666]

Hmm... interesting. Thanks, Turtle. I've never jumped this deep into games like this so I'm trying to learn the mathematics that drives this game.

[flintfakeer]

Originally posted by grail666:

Hmm... interesting. Thanks, Turtle. I've never jumped this deep into games like this so I'm trying to learn the mathematics that drives this game.

This way lies madness and glory. Welcome!

[grail666]

Originally posted by flintfakeer:

Originally posted by grail666:

Hmm... interesting. Thanks, Turtle. I've never jumped this deep into games like this so I'm trying to learn the mathematics that drives this game.

This way lies madness and glory. Welcome!

Haha thanks

[jfoytek]

Melee Defense is a very important stat.

Its one of my holy Trinity Fat / Mattack/ MDef is all that matters in my Battle Forged world.

However in any game of this type you can crunch numbers and find Meta's....
So the 50 Melee Defense Meta typically applies with Other meta's!

Correct Weapon for instance.

Lets take a Spear as an example (Not a correct meta weapon, unless its early game)

If your using a Fighting Spear on a Veteran Battle Brother and his Melee defense is ONLY 50, then your going to have a hard time.

However that Same Battle Brother is using a Legendary Cleaver and only has 50 Melee Defense well your going to have a better time.


Where am I going with this???

DPS vs Defense

Can you kill the enemy faster then it can kill you.
If your using a Fighting Spear and your guy has 75Melee Defense + a Legendary heater shield.
And your facing:
George (Made up Enemy)

And win after the 8 rounds it took the Fighting spear to DPS George to death....
But George was not able to break thru the tank then life is good!!!

However maybe your using a Cleaver and you got 50Melee Defense and a normal Kite Shield
and George dies in 4 rounds instead of 8.
*But your guy was on deaths door* Cause George hit him really hard....

^^^^
This is a very simplified was of looking at things in a non Meta way of course you can break down the above into Meta

And if you use the Right Meta (Weapon) And invest the right meta points into (MDef) and the right meta points into "Insert Meta" stat then you will typically always get X result.....

So to simplify what I am trying to say is
If you have a low Damge output guy you can never go wrong with increasing his Defense

Just like if you have a low Defense guy you can never go wrong with increasing his Damage!

Either kill before being killed or tank the damage for a long time and eventually kill your target.

Learning that balance between Defense and DPS is part of Learning your "Style"

And Battle Brothers is all about style:
Nimble vs Battle Forged
2hand vs Shields
high Initiative vs low initiative
Mobile vs Not


Don't fall into the meta for meta's sake, learn the Meta to enhance your own style!!!