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Indeed. Was suggesting on the reddit thread that traits be documented as well as some may forget to account for them when entering data. And then there is the case of Fat which impacts base initiative without being explicitly stated in the tooltip.
I think a quick comparison should be made against the established pre-DLC database[docs.google.com] before entering data. Any entry that has stats beyond the usual ranges specified by the pre-DLC database (which likely already has some erroneous outliers on its own) should provide a picture as proof. Its easier to check and follow up as well if we have a column for who's keying in the data (name on Steam or on Reddit).
P/S - On a brief screen, I haven't noted significant differences in stat ranges/averages so far for entries that have sufficient sample sizes, but would be nice to see if others have picked up any changes.
Indicating Traits would also be useful in determining which are more likely to be found on Backgrounds. I am pretty sure that there is a correlation between the two.
It looks like that poachers have been nerfed a bit. They use to be the second best ranged background. Now it is Witchhunters. Good to know.
One of my ideas was flagging any outliers that are outside the usual range via conditional formatting, so that it would show up as soon as you type it in - and maybe people would check the traits again.
This has a couple issues: on the technical side, you would have to calculate the range with the data already collected (which could have scewed entries already), since the average would also include the cell you just put wrong data into.
It's tedious: I would have to calculate two quartials for every background (which is fine honestly) and then set up the formatting rules, which are 7 for every one of the 50 backgrounds. All that for something that I'm not even sure will help at all seems not worth it.
Even then, it would only help with the more extreme outliers. Everything within the viable range, but modified by traits would still mess with the data, but wouldnt be detectable at all.
It's not that I dont want to address traits as a whole, it's just hard to do when a community is contributing and I dont think you can avoid it in the end. While annoying, the best hope is to just have a significant amount of data to the point where a couple traits here and there dont matter at all.
I'll probably set up something to compare the numbers from pre-dlc to post-dlc tho, thats what this is about in the first place! Do you know who I should ask permission to use those numbers from the sheet you linked for comparison?
No hiring for me, except for research purpose.
Agreed they are too expensive, to what you get. They should compare to squire in the price range.
Then again Bastards and Dis. Nobles are also priced to much in my opinion. I never use them.
It seems like not much has changed with a few exceptions. Notably Miner didnt get buffed after all, like it looked for a while... :(
Most notable is the ranged skill on Dis. Nobles so far, which is pretty odd tbh
On top of that, someone might use equipped stats to misstate Fatigue and Initiative.
There are also smaller pre-DLC databases from myself[drive.google.com] and a pre-DLC guide by Wizard Styles (his database is not accessible currently but I believe he's gathering new data) for potentially changed values which need further checking/confirmation.
Here's my summary of the potential changes, based on the Comparison page:
Summary of potential changes:
Swordmaster's Melee Defense nerfed (-3?)
Disowned Noble's Ranged Skill buffed (likely +6?)
Shepherd's Ranged Skill buffed (+3?)
Butcher's Fatigue buffed (+3?)
Cultist's HPs buffed (+4?)
Gravedigger's HPs buffed (+4?)
I think it's good that they give another Background (Disowned Noble) some additional ranged skill, as picks for ranged combatants are usually dominated by Hunters by far. However +6 if confirmed is still not competitive with Poachers and Bowyers which are cheaper alternatives to Hunters and clock in at an average of +10, +11.
On traits, I think it'd be better for accuracy if everyone just sends pics of naked men (this is going to be taken out of context :p) and only a few people check and key in the data. So far the data doesn't look too skewed though, hopefully everyone double checks before putting in entries.
I'll wait a bit for some consensus and a bit more data before updating the wiki table[battlebrothers.wikia.com]. Might not need much updating at all, apart from putting in Beast Slayer.
That's entirely possible, but there's not much to do about it. The only solution to that is having only a handful of people, who you know will account for everything, collect the stats - which is just not doable here. I'm always open for suggestions tho!
Maximums and minimums are useful to a certain degree, but i decided against including them for 2 reasons:
1) It crowds the sheet a lot. I'm a big fan of simplicity.
2) The main reason for this was figuring out changes made in the dlc - The individual stats are open for anyone, if it turns out that something got buffed/nerfed and you're curious about new min/max stats.
<3
I totally agree that it would be better for accuracy, it's just a lot of work to do. You wouldnt just have to provide your own samples, but also doublecheck every entry made.
On top of that, I would be discouraged from providing stats myself. Typing in a couple numbers when I hire someone while playing isnt a big deal, but actually taking a screenshot and sending it to someone is a much bigger barrier for me. I personally wouldnt bother with that.
Butcher currently has 33 entries with only 1 entry having 59 Melee Skill (range of 50-59).
The pre-DLC database has 34 entries with 2 entries having 59 Melee Skill (range of 50-59). One entry is backed up by traits. So I'm leaning towards it having been 50-59 all along.
Perhaps you downloaded an earlier version of the pre-DLC database when it had less entries.
The current change from pre-DLC values is projected to be -1.3 but I think that may likely be due to random sampling differences.
I'm interested in getting more entries for Swordmasters as the current Comparison table shows a -3.2 change in Melee Defense.
The current database has 9 entries with a range of 10-15 for Melee Defense.
The pre-DLC database has 24 entries with a range of 10-20 for Melee Defense.
Swordmaster used to be a notable, albeit fragile premium Background and post-DLC wage changes have not really helped its popularity. A further nerf to Melee Defense to 10-15 would really reduce his effectiveness. By the way, there is anecdotal evidence that even if the Old trait is removed by Waterskin, the Old event can still recur.