Does barbarian have any weak point?

[千仞万渊]

Or actually it's just tooooo OP?
They are giving me a same feeling as the former bounty hunters, similar fighting style, and both are too OP.


A very obvious angle, their stats and perks are super insane......I cant imagine this how bad this balance this is, havn't this been tested before?

Even the weakest thrall have 70 morale, what?? Even warlord is only 70 resolve.

And, I cant imagine reavers have insanely 11 perks, chosens have foolish 14perks......
We made some stimulation that 9 hedge knightVS 12 barbarian chosen, and the result is hedge knight never win. We cant meet more than 1 hedge knight in a combat, but it's really easy to encounter 6 chosen or even more.


In all, does barbarian have any weak point? They have many OP perks, this makes the game a total stats contest.

even reaver have:
1.Underdog+15melee defense=invinsible in melee
2.Anticipation+10 range defense=hard to counter with range weapon
3.wait turn+resilience+adrenaline=immune to any negative buff as any buff would be offset as they wait turn, even 2turn or mutiple turn effect will make no effect as resilience reduce them to 1turn duration
4.The babarian fury(roation)+adrenaline=they cant be seperated, anyone in the line would be 1vs1 solo and they have underdog, hehe(their rotation only cost 5fatigue that's funny)


And chosen get additional cripple strike+executionor.....like what the old bounty hunters do.





So, I've tryed every method, and find there is only one weak point, yes, they are afraid of super warrior, afraid of thoes who have astronomical stats. As what I said, totally stats contest.

Here are my suggestion,
1.remove underdog, actually we could remove the underdog perk as their is no mean to counter this thing.
2.make their fury skill(rotation)cost 50 fatigue, yes, 50 fatigue, not 5.
3.Nerf the whole 2h cleaver kind, not only barbarian kind. Its stats and decapte skill(now cost 20 fatigue,) makes 1h cleaver not a bit competative.
4.Remove resilience and recovery, that's very important, or how can we counter adrenaline.


Another thing:
5. Nerf indomitable or directly remove it, it's another perk that's cant be countered unless you are a super warrior(like underdog), what can you do to a wait-turned opponent with indomitalble , adrenaline and resilience? Stun? Poison? Disarm? That's all of no use, as they all would be neutralized by the end of this turn. The only way is to let a adrenaline user who have higher initiative than your opponent and stagger him. But how can you have higher initiative than you enemy? For example barbarian chosen have 115 intiative and champion will offer another 25% that's to say, 140 intiative, foolish.

[The Duck Knight]

Originally posted by msunavygrad:

Originally posted by Caledor:

I had 2 fights against barbarians. I have beat them both times. In one fight i lost 2 men. They have too many twohanders. This makes the risk very high, but the reward for killing them is very low. I will avoid them in the future.

I know folks don't like Spears and Spear Wall, but the are very effective vs Barbarians

I love spears and spearwall.
It's a save way to weaken and weary engaging enemies.

[Caledor]

I use spearwall in every battle. At this time i had just 2 spears for the flanks. Normally i train 4 spearman for a full spearwall, but i was too weak at this point in the game.
My spearman have very often not the best melee attack, because i use them as tanks and for avoiding encirclement. So when the barbarian break through the spearwall it becomes a massacre.

[turtle225]

My only encounter with a Chosen was a event popup on day 11 that asked me to 1v1 a Barbarian Champion and I went for it out of curiosity and he crushed my Raider tier bro in two hits.

Haven't seen Chosen otherwise. Will definitely avoid them until I feel strong.

Reavers are much more threatening than Raiders though. Something to be careful of if you haven't encountered them yet.

Why was the simulation run with 9 Hedge Knights vs 12 Chosen? How do the Knights do if you go 12 Knights vs 12 Chosen? Knights are generally going to be less threatening though since they usually just spam shieldwall while the Chosen run around with 2handers.

Is there a list somewhere of the Reaver and Chosen perks?

Originally posted by Caledor:

I had 2 fights against barbarians. I have beat them both times. In one fight i lost 2 men. They have too many twohanders. This makes the risk very high, but the reward for killing them is very low. I will avoid them in the future.

But how else are you going to get those sweet sweet Barbarian throwing weapons?

[Barranoid]

This is kinda funny. I fought a couple of battles with my militia bros (all lvl 2-4) and the nordmen were...well...underwhelming to say the least. At day 30 I took care of a camp and soon afterwards steamrolled a group of 9 without much hassle.

The thing is, they are really weak against ranged attacks. A few good archers can take out 2-3 before they even reach your front line.

However RAIDERS...they seem to somehow got stronger since the last time I played. The same bros that didn't bother much fighting barbarians were pretty much crushed by raiders with crossbows.

[Whatever100500]

Originally posted by turtle225:

Why was the simulation run with 9 Hedge Knights vs 12 Chosen? How do the Knights do if you go 12 Knights vs 12 Chosen?

Hedge Knights don't run around the world in full parties, they are considered elite enemies that you get only a few of per fight... And yet they are weaker (and no, solution should not be to buff Hedge Knights, lol).

[turtle225]

Originally posted by Whatever100500:

Originally posted by turtle225:

Why was the simulation run with 9 Hedge Knights vs 12 Chosen? How do the Knights do if you go 12 Knights vs 12 Chosen?

Hedge Knights don't run around the world in full parties, they are considered elite enemies that you get only a few of per fight... And yet they are weaker (and no, solution should not be to buff Hedge Knights, lol).

Yeah the op mentoned it too. I've never seen more than 2 knights though so the 9 seemed kind of random/arbitrary and I was curious about the simulations.

Not sure if Knights are the best comparison since they aren't usually scary unless they have a 2hander.

Are Chosen the strongest generic enemy in the game right now? Mansplitter Warlord has to be scarier right? Lindwurm? Maybe those don't count as generic.

Also random question but does Taunt work on Chosen? Nobody has mentioned it yet.

[Trappist]

Reavers are fine. Thralls are fine. Chosen are nuts lol. I went up against 13 of them (+2 reavers +2 drummers +1 Chosen hero) with what i considered to be a very well rounded late game team and i got absolutely trashed.

It will be interesting to see if players come up with good strategies for large numbers of Chosen. I dont see 10 or less as being a big issue.

In this instance (11+ Chosen), despite being a big net fan, i dont think that's the answer - you would need many nets and basically you are never safe when engaged. They will break your shields and they will hurt you real bad with just a couple of hits.

Spears & hammer quick hands maybe the answer, but thats pretty fatigue heavy and their drummers have insane rdef so your gonna run out of fatigue before they do.

Also someone suggested Orc shields. I think this may be an excellent idea, but not one i've tested yet.

Excellent enemy type. Totally for the end game. Answers on a post card.

[madracc00n]

Ye nerf barbarians,game is not easy enough already,we need it so every casual can play on expert ironman

[Grigsey]

By my experience their counter is peasant mobs with staff slings.

[Trappist]

Originally posted by Grigsey:

By my experience their counter is peasant mobs with staff slings.

Naa its Lone Wolf Monks

[千仞万渊]

Shamely I dont receive any useful idea.

[turtle225]

Originally posted by 千仞万渊:

Shamely I dont receive any useful idea.

To be honest most of us haven't even fought Chosen yet so we don't have ideas to give you.

How does Taunt do? Or do they somehow dodge it with Adrenaline shenanigans? Or is it just not practical to Taunt when there's 10 of them?

What about a Lone Wolf + Adrenaline + Indomitable distraction tank who blocks half of the Chosen by himself to buy time? Works wonders on Ancient Dead and Orcs. Maybe this falls under your super soldier category though.

[Whatever100500]

Originally posted by turtle225:

What about a Lone Wolf + Adrenaline + Indomitable distraction tank who blocks half of the Chosen by himself to buy time? Works wonders on Ancient Dead and Orcs. Maybe this falls under your super soldier category though.

I haven't tried it either, but won't Adrenaline fail against enemies that also use it and have *higher* initiative?
Plus, Indomitable only halves damage. I've read that chosen ones have insane focus potential due to offensive Rotate-like ability.

So far, bringing a lot of spearwall users seems like most realistic solution... Until barbarians bring tamed Unholds :(

[TKbio]

I also feel that their ability to wait turn is what makes them a bit over the top. I think that most if not all enemies are set to "automatically end turn" but since barbarians have the only 0 AP skill available (adrenaline) they never end up ending their turn and prefer waiting. That may be intentional but sets them apart from other enemies too much imo, and removing the wait option by having them adrenaline directly after their actions would be a ok nerf for me. Then again I haven't fought enough Chosens to be 100% certain that is the best or only way to balance or counter them

[Abel]

Yes, Chosen are extremely strong and they can come in high numbers. I met 13 of them on day 78 with a few Reavers and Drummers. I was playing the Militia origin which helped a lot but most of my men were level 7/8. It was a challenge and I lost two of them.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1740206783
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1740207273
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1740206480
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1740207496
Stunning them is the best tactic. But you have to wait if they wait before doing it otherwise, as was said, the effect will end in the current turn. They tend to waste time breaking shields against characters with very high Melee Defense so it's a good idea to block them with a shield expert carrying a few spare shields.

Their armor range is wide but it's on the low side and they have average HP so they can be taken care of fairly quickly with very damaging weapons. And they can be injured relatively easily.
Successful disarms will do wonders too.