Auto-Phoenix or Deathproof? (When 100k HP)

[Kebess]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but is auto-phoenix ever helpful with 100k hp? Or something like Deathproof is more handy?

I don't think so, as, usually, you don't get one shot so often that you'd need auto-phoenix (especially when you already have quick-pockets).

Thanks

[Hinnyuu]

Deathproof works against the instant-death effect of spells like Death - it doesn't protect against lethal damage.

Auto-Phoenix will still be useful because there are many attacks that deal 99,999 damage pretty much no matter what, especially since you have to give up an armor slot for Break HP Limit (and possibly Auto-Regen, which is about the only efficient way to heal at 99,999 HP).

Using BHPL for 99,999 HP is not the usual route because it's very inefficient, so it's hard to give recommendations because I'm not sure what else is going on.

[Kebess]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Deathproof works against the instant-death effect of spells like Death - it doesn't protect against lethal damage.

Auto-Phoenix will still be useful because there are many attacks that deal 99,999 damage pretty much no matter what, especially since you have to give up an armor slot for Break HP Limit (and possibly Auto-Regen, which is about the only efficient way to heal at 99,999 HP).

Using BHPL for 99,999 HP is not the usual route because it's very inefficient, so it's hard to give recommendations because I'm not sure what else is going on.

Hum, I can't think of that many attacks that deals 100k damage, when you're at maxed defense and magic defense. Do you have specific examples?

[Hinnyuu]

Most stuff that Dark Aeons do.

[Kebess]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Most stuff that Dark Aeons do.

Okay, thanks.

[Kebess]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Deathproof works against the instant-death effect of spells like Death - it doesn't protect against lethal damage.

Auto-Phoenix will still be useful because there are many attacks that deal 99,999 damage pretty much no matter what, especially since you have to give up an armor slot for Break HP Limit (and possibly Auto-Regen, which is about the only efficient way to heal at 99,999 HP).

Using BHPL for 99,999 HP is not the usual route because it's very inefficient, so it's hard to give recommendations because I'm not sure what else is going on.

Just to try to understand Auto-phoenix a bit better. Is it cast *as soon as a character dies* (even if the opponent still has a turn) or rather it is cast *at the beginning of the turn* of a character that has Auto-phoenix?

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by Kebess:

Just to try to understand Auto-phoenix a bit better. Is it cast *as soon as a character dies* (even if the opponent still has a turn) or rather it is cast *at the beginning of the turn* of a character that has Auto-phoenix?

It's an immediate, automatic action. It doesn't wait, and it doesn't take a turn, and you can even revive two people if both die at the same time (and the third survives and has Auto-Phoenix).

[Xaphnir]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

It's an immediate, automatic action. It doesn't wait, and it doesn't take a turn, and you can even revive two people if both die at the same time (and the third survives and has Auto-Phoenix).

However, for that to happen it has to happen when the character is KOed. A character with auto-phoenix will not automatically throw a phoenix down just because a character is currently in KO status. This means that if, for example, all three characters are KOed, one of them with auto-phoenix has auto-life and revives, auto-phoenix will not activate because when the other two were KOed the character with auto-phoenix was incapable of throwing a phoenix down.

[Protoman]

I'm recalling this from memory, but any attack that does over 9999 damage isn't usually worth trying to mitigate with BHPL. You can do the usual Defense + 20% (armor ability) and cast Cheer 5 times to bring most damage to below 9999.
IIRC, the only attacks in the game that do more than that even with all those buffs are Dark Yojimbo's Wakizashi (30,000+), and Dark Bahamut's Megaflare (60,000+).
Like people above said, BHPL is inefficient because you're wasting a lot of time for something that'll only be useful in very few enemies. There's also the problem with healing: healing items only heal up to 9999 (even Elixirs/Megalixirs) and even with Magic at 255, Curaga probably won't even reach 40,000. It's a developer oversight that was never fixed.

[Kebess]

Originally posted by Protoman:

I'm recalling this from memory, but any attack that does over 9999 damage isn't usually worth trying to mitigate with BHPL. You can do the usual Defense + 20% (armor ability) and cast Cheer 5 times to bring most damage to below 9999.
IIRC, the only attacks in the game that do more than that even with all those buffs are Dark Yojimbo's Wakizashi (30,000+), and Dark Bahamut's Megaflare (60,000+).
Like people above said, BHPL is inefficient because you're wasting a lot of time for something that'll only be useful in very few enemies. There's also the problem with healing: healing items only heal up to 9999 (even Elixirs/Megalixirs) and even with Magic at 255, Curaga probably won't even reach 40,000. It's a developer oversight that was never fixed.

I see what you mean, but I really like having the extra HP :) and I prefer the gameplay more (I don't like having to completely rely on auto-phoenix). I've decided to take Bhpl, Ribbon, Haste and Regen (or Protect). After crunching some numbers, I just don't see why this would be worse than not having Bhpl (in most cases).

I'll also get a secondary set for my main party, with Stoneproof (or Ribbon, if I get lucky on Yojimbo), Haste, Protect and Phoenix.

Sure, it will take some time, but I'm not in a hurry, and I enjoying playing the game, so all good! :)

[Hinnyuu]

Originally posted by Protoman:

IIRC, the only attacks in the game that do more than that even with all those buffs are Dark Yojimbo's Wakizashi (30,000+), and Dark Bahamut's Megaflare (60,000+).

Wakizashi can be brought below 9,999 with just max DEF, Auto-Protect, and x5 Cheer. It's really the only non-overdrive/non-avoidable attack that hits everyone for massive damage.

If people like extra HP that's of course their prerogative - people should do what they enjoy. It's not optimal and certainly far from efficient, but being optimal and efficient is not the only way to play. It takes a lot more work to get to the same result so in that sense it's "worse", but it's not like it outright doesn't work, even if there's no reason to go that route.

[Kebess]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Originally posted by Protoman:

IIRC, the only attacks in the game that do more than that even with all those buffs are Dark Yojimbo's Wakizashi (30,000+), and Dark Bahamut's Megaflare (60,000+).

Wakizashi can be brought below 9,999 with just max DEF, Auto-Protect, and x5 Cheer. It's really the only non-overdrive/non-avoidable attack that hits everyone for massive damage.

If people like extra HP that's of course their prerogative - people should do what they enjoy. It's not optimal and certainly far from efficient, but being optimal and efficient is not the only way to play. It takes a lot more work to get to the same result so in that sense it's "worse", but it's not like it outright doesn't work, even if there's no reason to go that route.

From what I've seen, the game is so diversed that there simply isn't just "one" single optimal way to play it efficiently. It comes down to how you manage things. I prefer coming up with more enjoyable gameplays (at least for me) that works, than simply following a pre-made one (that I enjoy less), just because everyone else is doing it.

PS:
All your replies have been helpful though, so thanks again!

[Kebess]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

Using BHPL for 99,999 HP is not the usual route because it's very inefficient, so it's hard to give recommendations because I'm not sure what else is going on.

I'll post some results here in the future to allow an alternative TC'ing involving this gameplay. (though it's possible that it has already been done elsewhere...)

[Hinnyuu]

The game really isn't very complex. There aren't a whole lot of options in the first place, simply because everything is so straightforward - at the end of the day, a lot of "alternative" approaches are just doing the same thing with more work involved. There really isn't a lot of variety if your goal is simply to do everything with the minimum time spent doing it - but whether or not that is your own personal goal is, of course, a different question.

Above all: have fun. But don't confuse "I'm enjoying this" with "this is optimal" - they're two different things, and not necessarily comparable. What you enjoy only you can say, and no one is in a position to tell you not to enjoy something, or not to enjoy it the way you are; when it comes to optimal, though, you CAN make objective assessments, depending on the parameters given.

[Kebess]

Originally posted by Hinnyuu:

What you enjoy only you can say, and no one is in a position to tell you not to enjoy something, or not to enjoy it the way you are; when it comes to optimal, though, you CAN make objective assessments, depending on the parameters given.

I agree. I suppose one first needs to define what they mean by "optimal", which is subjective (at least to some degree). But once we've determined what we mean by this, then we can indeed make objective assessments.

[Casurin]

Originally posted by Kebess:

I agree. I suppose one first needs to define what they mean by "optimal", which is subjective (at least to some degree). But once we've determined what we mean by this, then we can indeed make objective assessments.

Lets say it like this - you would have to make some really strange assumptions to make BHPL an essential part of any optimal build.

You basically get one for free and using that is no problem, but after that it is just not as good as it sound.
You need to invest quite some time into grinding HP-Spheres or your HP are so low that it is close ti worthless even (there are i think ~20k HP on the grid). This can help when you try farming Omega-ruins or the first few stronger mobs but that is also around the time where you can get the one free BHPL.

Post-main-story most normal mobs are trash, monster-farm nearly everything shredds you and Sin/Omega-Mobs are not that hard hitting but have nasty status-effects.
When fighting the black aeons having more HP is not all that good as it then also takes more efford to heal up again, or if you have the other stats maxed and good equipment then the >9999 do not really help you either.

I do like BHPL but well - the game is just not designed to needing a tanking character. One of my go-to parties has always been tidus(attack/haste)+yuna(heal/Aeon)+Auron(armorbreak/tank) - really nice to play. Auron there had BHPL with ~17k HP in Omega-ruins and Yuna spent a lot of Time and MP just keeping his health up.